Please tell me why porn is demeaning to women...

[thatgirlsevil]

I am not trolling or being a blatant idiot...I'm looking for eye-opening facts and opinions...

(I realise porn is demeaning, women are generally subservient and intercourse often culminates with a man ejaculating on face/breasts...but I just wanted to hear your thoughts)

[jenny60]

OP: there are a number of threads on these boards where these issues have been debated at some length. Have a look and come back with any questions. It's a big, big issue.

[Tortington]

so when they are acting as a maid, or as a secretary or whatever - that is not creating a world of fantasy? at no point did i say that this wasn't a real act being performed - in fact i have repeatedly and consistantly said it was. what i have said is that that act - a real sexual act - is that of fantasy for the consumer - and then the question i pose is with porn being so readily accessible - does this mean that sexual expectations are changing and that porn is forcing a culture change.

you have deliberatley picked on one part of what i considered to be a well balanced post. taking it out of context and ignoring subsequent posts. for the life of me i can't figure out why. especially as my first post lists the dangers that workers in the porn industry face. i have repeatedly said that the comment you are refering to is in reference to culture - not the worker. why do you consistantly ignore this.

[InmaculadaConcepcion]

Indeed so, vesuvia. If the consumer wasn't willing to spend money/generate ad viewings etc. when accessing porn, the industry wouldn't exist. Capitalism and consumer power are the major drivers.

In case I wasn't clear, I meant the consumer perceives themselves to be slightly removed from the action they are witnessing on the screen.

The reality, as you rightly say, is that they are as heavily implicated in the existence of porn, including extreme porn, as any of the producers of the material.

[vesuvia]

InmaculadaConcepcion wrote - "they are viewing the acts through the medium of camera/screen, which distances them from the action"


but it is usually the consumer's money that has financed the production of the acts that are performed and recorded, so consumer's aren't as distant from it as they might like to think they are.

[InmaculadaConcepcion]

I suspect there's a perception duality going on here wrt the porn consumer.

On the one hand, they're getting off on the fact that what they are viewing is not being mocked up for the camera, it is real penetration/pain/humiliation/male climaxing etc.

But at the same time, they are viewing the acts through the medium of camera/screen, which distances them from the action. Also, the participants, especially the women, are often caricatures of more "normal"-looking women and are performing actions that are far more extreme than most people would have experienced themselves.

So reality and fantasy are both being catered to at the same time.

And yes, I know from personal experience that the porn consumer will then be inclined to try and experience some of those scenarios in real life. Assuming that many women are reluctant to go along with these, it can really taint a relationship.

Suddenly sex loses its intimacy and becomes a vehicle for the porn-consumer to attempt to insert himself into those fantasy scenarios. And most of those scenarios are the polar opposite of loving sexual intimacy.
Personally, I felt less like myself with one particular XP and more like a sex object, a fuck toy.

And that's definitely demeaning.

[DontdoitKatie]

I'm not following you Custardo. She's not an actress she's a performer. She is actually performing or having those acts performed on her. It's real.

On the other hand actors pretend. They don't actually have sex.

[Tortington]

are you suggesting that the 'actress' that performs a role in a porn movie is like she is on screen all the time or is this something she does for the camera? the 'actress' is acting out a fantasy.

[DontdoitKatie]

Like I said if it was only a fantasy, the user would be happy for the actors only to be pretending. They wouldn't really have to have double penetration for example - there would be special effects or whatever. When the man ejaculated on the woman's face it wouldn't be real sperm, it would be egg-white.

It's like people who buy videos of tramps fighting or small animals being crushed under a woman's high heel (yes that's a form of porn too). The reality is what gets them off. Fantasy means something happens in the imagination, not in real life. Porn is real life and it's what the users enjoy.

[Tortington]

whilst real acts are being performed, this i do not disagree on. i do believe the fantasy is in the sexual acts and the women with the perfect figues and big tits.
i do not disagree that these acts are being performed. i do disagree on whether it is a fantasy for the user.

[sfxmum]

I might be wrong but there seems to be a lot more porn about and quite a lot of very vile violent type

I used to think it was fine and live and let live

however you just have to imagine that if young people start watching it before having any real relationships, before getting to relate to the opposite sex, before fumbling about, they will have a very distorted idea of what sex is about

the women are not always 'up for it' and are not willing to please no matter what, it seems to me it can subvert and demean women's sexuality

women generally do not scream with pleasure upon immediate penetration, one fears that might be one of the ideas conveyed (goodness what a shock with reality that must be)

also it disturbs me somewhat that you see prepubescent girls pouting in pictures and displaying over sexualized postures without understanding what it means

it has very little to do with real sex and real enjoyment imo

[DontdoitKatie]

And yes, the "fantasy" of pornography bleeds into real life - the real lives of the women being used in it and the partners of male porn users. It has an effect.

If porn was all cartoons and nobody was actually having those things done to their body then I think the argument that it is a fantasy might work. But it's not, it's real.

[DontdoitKatie]

Custardo, once again porn users do not see pornography as fantasy. They need to see real things being done to real women to get their kicks.

Just because they lie afterwards and go "Oh it's just a fantasy", as if the woman they've just watched being sexually tortured wasn't real, doesn't mean we have to believe them.

[SueSylvesterforPM]

There are lots of threads floating around with links and stuff on,

If not just spend 10mins on redtube horrible stuff, and think the scariest thing now is that its so easy for kids to access its as easy as youtube.

[Tortington]

and my first statement - to answer your question katie, yes i believe that if circumstances were right and entering into the industry were a true choice, that this would be as valid a career path as teacher. As i said in my first post, i do not think that this is a true choice more the majority. Therefore i do not think that the act of wanking over sexual imiges - for men or women is of itself - wrong or demeaning.

[Tortington]

and therefore culturally i think that we have a role as parents to educate our children about respect and choice within sex. and to remind them that if they do see this stuff - as adults- that it is actually an unrealistic fantasy - as has been mentioned, not a lot of people like double penetration. It isn't a 'real' expectation in 'real' life

[Tortington]

I think 'Fantasy' is the optimum word here. the user sees porn as a fantasy of a stereotype of woman he probably couldn't have, doing things he probably wouldn't do. That is not to say that i condone this in anyway. MY argument, comment/question is whether becuase porn is so easily accessible that this is seen as a norm within wider society.

I think that when these arguments arise it always becins from a standpoint where women are subdjugated - i am not taking about the porn industry - but its effects on the norms of society. that men will then have unreal expectations of what to expect from their partners. and the partners will comply and let their partners ejeculate on their face becuase thye saw it in a porn movie.

now whilst i am sure that this does happen for some, i wouldn't announce this as a fact and as a norm. I can only speak from personal experience, but the girls and women i know, wouldn't let their hair be messed up for a start!

so it is a question for me, does the FANTASY of porn bleed into real life and cause there to be unrealistic expectations of sex - as porn is so readily available these days? it is certainly something that i will ponder.

[Tortington]

yes the user of porn sees it as a fantasy. I do not dispute that it is actually happening

[vesuvia]

SkinittingFluffyBunnyBonnets wrote - "I am sur there are unscrupulous companies where women are treated badly....but they are not the norm."

Why do you believe they are not the norm?

Chatsworth, California produces 85% of the world?s adult content. Do you know what working conditions are like there?

[SkinittingFluffyBunnyBonnets]

DontdoitKatie Male actors get paid too.

[SkinittingFluffyBunnyBonnets]

Why are people assuming the male must be the instigator of anal sex? what if a woman likes it? Is she a liar? Pretending in order to please a male? I don't buy that.

[DontdoitKatie]

Nope - you argued that what happens in porn isn't seen as "reality" for the porn user, when in fact the reality of the pornographic scenes is what they are after when they use it.

Also have you actually seen any porn, because your first statement is that it isn't demeaning to women (unqualified, stated as fact). Using women as prostitutes on film for men's masturbation material is most certainly demeaning to them.

[Tortington]

i did comment on the realities of the women in porn. i didn't say it wasn't a reality for them.

my comment was on it's effect on cultural norms. so yes - you have misconstrued my post. ignoring any context and taking one sentence and twisting it to fit your argument.