Marks and Spencer support new Hooters in Bristol, #2

[sethstarkaddersmum]

I went to post on the first thread but it was full so here is a new one.

I'm reposting Jessinavalon's OP from 10th September since it explains what is going on, for anyone who is new to the issue:

'Dear all
This is my first post on here so I hope I am doing this right!

I live in Bristol and, last week, 'Hooters' was granted a licence to open in the city centre. The site is virtually opposite 3 apartment blocks, the lower floors of which are social housing and children are living in them.

What's most disappointing is that Marks and Spencer are leasing the site to 'Hooters'. They have been e-mailed by many concerned people to ask if they will reconsider leasing the building but they have just replied saying it is a "commercial decision" (as if that makes it ok!). In Sheffield, a 'Hooters' didn't even make it to application stage because the developer (Ask Pizza) realised that it would be better not to be associated with a company like 'Hooters'.

Marks and Spencer don't seem that concerned, however. Although they have signed up to the "Let Girls Be Girls" Mumsnet campaign they are not concerned about a company which sells merchandise including babygros which say "Future Hooters Girl" and "Does my butt look big in this?"

I have written to Marks and Spencer telling them that I won't be shopping in their stores again. If you feel strongly about this, please e-mail:

[email protected].

'Hooters' tries to sell itself as a family friendly restaurant but it is anything but. The Hooters in Nottingham attracts mainly stag parties and football fans. Hooters Girls take part in bikini contests and iced wet t-shirt competitions (the t-shirts are put in the freezers before the girls wear them). 'Hooters' has links to Playboy magazine....I could go on.....

I think Marks and Spencer should be shamed for facilitating this company's expansion into Bristol. They are selling women and girls down the river by leasing to this company and all just to make a "quick buck".

Thanks everyone.'

[JessinAvalon]

I bumped the facebook group thread on the AIBU thread and I am getting an absolute slating! I have retreated to hide from the rotten vegetables.

It amazes me that people (women) are so desensitised to things like this that they turn on other women who are trying to do something about it!

I'm a bit shocked at the response I've had. No wonder you all suggested that I didn't read the page 3 thread!

If women collude with things like this, there really doesn't seem like much hope!

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I'm surprised that you're surprised, Jess. Why would you think that women are immune from being affected by their family influences, local area or national context in terms of accepting sexism etc? Not everyone questions their surroundings.

[JessinAvalon]

I think I've been lulled into a false sense of security by mainly posting on the feminism/women's rights section!

I'm not surprised in "non-virtual" life as even my own mother thinks I've been brainwashed by a bunch of dreadful feminists and is horribly embarrassed by anything that I do related to feminism. I have felt this keenly over the last few years, particularly as I have 2 brothers who have always been treated differently, but I have come to terms with it now and just keep anything I do on that front from her (and, as it's a big part of my life, she knows very little about me anymore).

I come across these attitudes in male and female work colleagues and in female friends but have tended to surround myself with like minded people outside of work.

I think I'm surprised at the level of anger (perhaps too strong a word) directed at me from women on Mumsnet. I just wasn't expecting it - naively, I suppose!

[sethstarkaddersmum]

is it your first AIBU?


people feel free to say pretty much anything on AIBU - posting there is regarded by some as being like saying 'Hey, I want a row, come and shout at me!'
so they will do so.

when I have a mo I will hop over and try and throw some rotten veg back.

[sethstarkaddersmum]

oh I see everyone else already has

[JessinAvalon]

Is it safe to look?! I have heard that DSH has been trolling on there trying to provoke! However, my eyes will be skipping over his posts!

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Honestly Jess, woman up and get over there (although there has been a nice lull).

Sorry about your family being sexists. Most women in this section (nay, the world!) have got similar stories to tell. My parents are actually great so I'll try not to talk about them too much. :o Although I said to my mum the other day "you just thanked him for ironing his own shirts" and she was (with him/herself, not me)

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Sorry that first comment sounded a bit harsh! I forgot the :)

[JessinAvalon]

Hello
I did have a look - thanks! - and I typed out a long response on this thread but then our server went down and I lost it .

I had posted a similar thread on AIBU once before at the suggestion of someone on here and it got a mixed response but nothing like it has done today. Really disappointing that there are women on MN who are calling each other "ugly/jealous" etc. I expect it on the comments of the Evening Post but not on MN!! I didn't realise AIBU was a big bunfight!!

It brings to mind the cognitive dissonance thread which seems very relevant here. I have talked to a lot of women who have a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality.

Do these women not think about how it might have made them feel to have walked past a 'Hooters' at aged 6, or 10 or 14? Thankfully we didn't have to as it's relatively new to the UK but their children will.

Thanks all for explaining why it does matter and why it is important.

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Aw Jess, I don't want to suck up but it is great that you are braving all this. It's not easy to put yourself up as the one to pick one who Hates Boobies or whatever.

[sethstarkaddersmum]

a lot of the negative posters in this type of discussion are usually men though - I am fairly sure ccpccp is.
I didn't recognise the name of the person who posted the 'jealous' jibe.

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

me neither.

Every time I see Pan or Retiredgoth post something nice and normal around MN I want to pat them because so many of the men on here seem to delight in acting like tossers. You would think there would be more dads on here looking for support with parenting. But no, apparently no.1 activity is posting sexist shite, or defending it. Do you think they imagine it's their duty or something?

If I hear the phrase "bring a bit of balance to the thread" one more time I will stab cry.

[vesuvia]

RamblingRosa wrote - "I'm not sure where "a cheerleader look" stands in law."

On the first "Hooters in Bristol thread" I posted the following:

"vesuvia Sat 25-Sep-10 14:52:43
Hooty wrote - "However it is a wholesome cheerleader image rather than a sleazy one."
Are we talking "Debbie does Dallas" or President George W. Bush here?"


I'd like to expand on that a little. Debbie and George are probably the two extremes of "the cheerleader look." Yes, George W. was a cheerleader (as was President Eisenhower before him). Debbie was a character in numerous 1970s porn films about a cheerleader and her "associations" with the players in numerous American football teams. The other cheerleader look between these extremes is the All-American girl-next-door type.

Which of these three cheerleader looks do Hooter's claim they are trying to present?

Is that the same as the cheerleader look that their male customers are likely to have in mind?

[DavidStHubbins]

By saying you want to 'pat' them, should we assume that you consider these two posters as 'pet' men? Like they are tame and house trained enough not to shit on the carpet like the 'wild' men wo usually 'derail' your oh so civilised and harmonious discussions?

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

...And by pat I mean on the back, damn trying to work and MN at the same time!

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

[JessinAvalon]

Dear David
You have done it! I am now convinced of your wisdom, balanced opinions and general common sense. I am bowing to your intellectual superiority. I am no match for your intimidating and thought provoking arguments.

I realise nonw am just a silly woman and cannot think beyond my whimsical emotions. Nothing I have said matches you for wit, evidence based fact, or general good sense.

Now I have acknowledged the vastness of your intellect over my poor limited brain, perhaps you would like to find a more worthy opponent of your wondrous powers of debate? One day I hope to meet you again and to match you but I know I have a lot of learning to do in the meantime.

You are my mentor. Til we meet again.

JessinAvalon xxxxx

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Bwahahaha Jess :o

Finally realised that there really are people who would read DH Lawrence and be nodding along with every word.

[JessinAvalon]

Undercover boss at Hooters

[JessinAvalon]

I don't know. Sounds pretty young.

The irony of man who set up the Hooters franchise saying that the manager doesn't treat his staff with respect! It would be funny if it wasn't true.

[JessinAvalon]

Perhaps he can't be sacked because he's the franchise owner? If you've bought the franchise, presumably no-one can sack you although they could take the right of owning the franchise off you?

[AliceWorld]

The disconnect in that CEO's head is mind-blowing.

[JessinAvalon]

I know! Unbelievable!

[AliceWorld]

I was glad the article also recognised that as it stopped me from feeling alone.