Which diet advice is to be believed?

[TheDeadlyDonkey]

I've started reading John Briffa's Escape the Diet Trap. It makes for very interesting reading, but has made me question the usual run of the mill low fat type diet advice.
If Briffa is to be believed, low fat diets are unsustainable and can contribute to ongoing obesity issues and increasing the risk of diabetes.

I've also recently heard that if milk is to be drunk, full fat milk is better, as the majority of vitamins and minerals are in the fat.

I'm also hearing varying reports on cholesterol, and how it maybe isn't playing the dangerous role that many drs are telling us.

So, after DH's stroke (which wasn't in any way a lifestyle issue) he has been advised to be cautious and cut down on fat and use benecol spread and yoghurt drink (I have read that these aren't good for you, but can't remember where, could have been on here)

So when there is so much conflicting advice, who do you trust? What do you believe?

John Briffa's book is really convincing, quotes trials, uses scientific charts etc, and makes sense.
I myself have struggled with low fat diets, and failed more times than I care to admit.
I am in no way qualified to interpret scientific trial data (along with the majority of the population) and am growing more and more confused about the conflicting advice that is out there.

I'm not really sure what I'm expecting from this thread, but I'm interested to see what others think about this, and who you trust when it comes to diet advice?

[chocoluvva]

My understanding of the 'caveman' school of thought is that the people living before we had agriculture - ie, grains had a longer life expectancy ( presumably, because their grain-free diet was healthier.) (I don't think the optimum diet is as simple as that though).

Cancer is becoming more common in younger people. Life expectancy improved markedly after the discovery of effective antibiotics and other medical advances and the beginning of the welfare state which gave people access to medical care. Better housing and less extreme poverty has contributed to the increase in average age of death too.

I don't think the average age of death will continue to go up if we continue to eat so much processed food (and food containing growth hormones, antibiotics and pesticides).

[Romann]

What about the kids? DH and I eat big salads for dinner every day and a bit of meat or fish, but not always. I have lots of eggs, which I love. We hardly ever drink any alcohol at all - I'm quite convinced by the studies that show that alcohol is really bad for you, even in small quantities, and I feel much better without it. I'm a big fan of spelt and quinoa, and we have loads of olive oil which we make ourselves so we know it's cold-pressed and has no chemical residue.

But it's not so easy to feed children like this. My kids eat a bit of salad or veg, and plenty of fruit, but I usually give them pasta and meat or fish and potatoes or whatever. They have some sugar, but I try to restrict it a lot, and they hardly ever have sweets or fizzy drinks/squash/fruit juice. How do the very healthy eaters feed their children and make sure they have enough fuel?

[infamouspoo]

I was diagnosed with coeliacs so cut out all grains except rice (I dont eat potatoes) and found that eating pretty much as Xenia describes made me feel better. Fish, butter, rice, veg, pulses, nuts, fruit and plenty of it. Full fat cheese, yogurt and cream when I can be arsed. If I do eat something with sugar in I feel sick and dizzy very quickly.
And I never count calories. A stone fell off very quickly, my mood improved and my tiredness is due to an ever waking child not that heavy feeling from sugar.
Personally I think sugar is the real issue in obesity.

[ppeatfruit]

Romann Our GD is being bought up a vegan (except for a bit of goats or sheep's cheese and some fish) Our DIL doesn't give her much wheat either so she has whole rice and there's good pasta made with rice, spelt and or kamut that GD loves, she likes quinoa and spelt too. If you involve them in the growing and making of salads like carrots etc. (most DCs like carrots)

infamous There's that horrible high fructose corn syrup that's in everything, the Americans are finally suggesting is causing the obesity. Even Coca Cola are talking about it!

[eslteacher]

I don't doubt that people can lose a lot of weight and be really healthy on paleo / low carb diets. For me the problem is that it would be incredibly hard to maintain in the long term in the context of foods like bread, pasta, poatoes and above all sugar, being so omnipresent in life. Particularly in contexts like eating at other people's houses, going to parties/weddings, buying a quick snack while in a hurry, lunch/dinner out with friends etc...

I'd say that at least once a week I end up in a situation like that: eating at someone else's house or go to a restaurant with friends or whatever. I fairly often go away for weekends to stay with friends or family too. And being paleo or low carb in those circumstances would feel really restrictive, even if technically you could eat the meat and certain veg on offer and just leave any carb parts of the meal, refuse dessert, refuse wine or cocktails etc. I think I'd cave really quickly. How do paleo eaters / low carbers manage in these kinds of situation? How often do you 'let go' and break the rules in the context of being in a situation where it's not you preparing your own food? I've read that for low carbing it's not really possible to do this very often without completely undoing all the good work you've done in getting your body to burn fat instead of carbs.

I think that's why I prefer the calorie control approach, nothing is forbidden, you can have a bit of everything in moderation and it's quite flexible, i.e. you can have an indulgent day here or there and make up for it elsewhere. I do agree though that you could get all your calories from totally crap foods and be missing out on proper nutrients, so I'd say calorie control with the proviso of eating lots of fresh food especially fruit and veg is what seems good to me.

[Xenia]

rb, I don't find it so. Also I think sugar is pretty much a poison but it may affect some people just worse than others. I think it is dead easy when away to have eggs for breakfast (at most hotels anyway) and then for your dinner you can have a lovely bit of steak or fish or veg. It's not hard at all. I do plan however as to what I will eat and when and I regard that as a very small price to pay for virtually never being ill.

[eslteacher]

What about if you eat at other people's houses and they make a risotto or a potato dish or something, and they've made a lovely dessert? I suppose maybe after a while people start catering for you when they realise what you do / don't eat?

It's only anecdotal of course, but I am virtually never ill either. In my whole life (I'm 30) I think I've had maybe 10 days off school/work for illness, none consecutive. Am estimating of course, but I definitely haven't had any days off work for illness in the last 4 years. I get a cold most winters, but apart from having a runny nose for ages it doesn't actually make me feel ill as such. And I've eaten pretty much all foods all my life...

[Romann]

rb I'm like Xenia in that I pick carefully in restaurants. In other people's houses I just eat it - have small portions and don't have seconds. I think it's quite rude to make a fuss at other people's houses unless you're going to have some serious reaction to the food.

[infamouspoo]

riverboat - I dont actually eat out as the opportunity never comes up and people know I have coeliacs (and again, maybe once or twice a year I eat at someones house) but I do eat rice so would eat that or fish and not have dessert. I go camping with friends and they eat pretty much the same way but can eat bread so I just decline the bread when we share meals. None of them eat sugar.
Technically I'm not a deliberate low carber, its just turned out that way because of the coeliacs. If I'm out for the day I take a packed lunch (cheaper too)
So now I'm aware I sound like billy no-mates but I dont eat out as I eat kosher only and have no-one to babysit a very sick child. Friends come here and I'm quite happy to nip to Greggs and buy them sugar laden cakes. I do have friends, honest!

[Minifingers]

"I think that's why I prefer the calorie control approach, nothing is forbidden, you can have a bit of everything in moderation"


I don't think there's evidence that calorie controlled diets are effective for the vast majority of people in the medium to long term. My understanding is that the vast majority of people who lose weight by simply eating less of their normal diet regain the weight they lose, then some more on top, the minute they stop focusing on calories in/calories out.

[eslteacher]

Yes I've heard that too Mini, but I thought it was for all forms of diet, low carb/low fat etc, not specifically low calorie?

[EMUZ]

I go with what makes me feel better. Paleo/primal works for me because I don't have to think about it, I buy meat,eggs, fish, veg, berries, nuts and I'm done. I drink almond/hazelnut instead of milk and have butter and full fat plain yoghurt. The protein/fat combo makes me more satiated (is that even the word?!)
I don't get blood sugar crashes any more or bloated and I lost 9kg relatively easily. I do exercise as per primal though, I lift heavy weights and do short fast cardio. One cheat meal a week (with rules) and then straight back to eating as I usually do

[lljkk]

the burden to the environment of such an animal protein-heavy diet, that alone would deter me from ever eating the primal-paleo way.

[TheHumancatapult]

Riverboat if at someone's house then will eat anything just smaller portions and yes occasionally I have a blow out but then I'm just more careful after

[HardlyEverHoovers]

I've not read all the posts as not got time, just responding to OP. I have many of your concerns regarding low fat diets etc. A combination of reading the books 'Deep Nutrition' and other similar books, and spening time with my in-laws in a remote African village with the strongest, healthiest people I have ever met, whose diet largely consists of animal fats, has led me to reject the current trends.
We have whole fat dairy products and cook with clarified butter, we eat a moderate amount of meat, usually on the bone, and have mainly wholewheat grains. Breakfast in our house for example is porridge made with full fat milk and butter, with lots of honey. Both my husband and I are slim and healthy, and our son is thriving. We are thankful for this and don't know how much diet has to do with it of course.
I avoid at all costs 'low fat' versions of things, and also 'sugar free'. While it's important to limit your intake of fat and sugar, I think this is better done by eating the real deal in sensible amounts, rather than replacing it with wierd stuff that isn't really food.
I can imagine that taking into account your husbands stroke, your really want to be careful, but I would advise you to go beyond the basic advice you find in pamphlets etc. What I've learnt from my in-laws is that if you eat real natural food, you can't go far wrong.

[Wiifitmama]

Just came back to thank mythumbshavegoneweird for recommending the book "Fat Chance:the butter truth about sugar". I am about halfway through now and have nevet learned so much about the biochemistry of how our bodies deal with food. Eye opening. Truly.

[itsonlysubterfuge]

From the nutrional information I've read about milk, the only big difference between the milks is fat content. A lot of vitamins have to be added into milk because the heating of milk destroys a lot of them anyway. In fact, sometimes skim milk comes up better as far as vitamins.

[ouryve]

I red Escape the diet trap recently, too and did find it interesting. I liked that there was lots of research quoted for most issues and that he did discuss where there were advantages and disadvantages to eating certain foods, eg cheese.

However, he seemed to make a few big jumps of logic and there were issues, such as "leaky gut" where he became a lot less rigorous with his citations.

The book has made me more comfortable with completely eschewing the low fat idea, though (although large amounts of animal fats don't agree with me at all, so I very literally don't go the whole hog) and more relaxed about not always scrabbling round for an acceptable source of carbs in a meal for DS1 when I'm not cooking pasta (he'll not eat potatoes or rice in any form) despite the fact that he needs a lot of calories in order to not end up all skin and bones.

[ouryve]

lljkk Sun 26-May-13 19:21:15

"the burden to the environment of such an animal protein-heavy diet, that alone would deter me from ever eating the primal-paleo way."

Yes - this did occur to me, too.

[ouryve]

I had lemon soul

That explains so much :o

[Kungfutea]

There is some truth in the assertion that the diets of hunter-gatherers was superior to settled farmers. But the main reason for the decrease in life expectancy was due to the increase in infectious disease as a result of increased population density. So I don't buy the story that it's all about nutrition.

Personally, I agree that the best way to go is lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, whole grains and lean protein in moderation plus nuts and seeds and very limited processed food, especially sugar. But I also believe that calories in has to be less than calories out for weight loss and it doesn't matter all that much what form those calories take.

The biggest one to watch out for is sugar in drinks including juice. We don't register sugar in drinks as food - even if we ate the same amount of sugar in haribos we'd adjust the number of calories at the next meal (on average) which doesn't happen if we drink it.

[Tortoiseonthehalfshell]

Hahahahahaha this thread is cracking me up.

OP, you're clearly not wrong in asserting that there's a lot of conflicting advice out there!

[chocoluvva]

"increase in infectious disease as a result of increased population density" in ancient farming communities - how interesting.

I understand that the grains we mostly eat now, especially wheat are more difficult to digest and less nutritious than the ancient grains. And grown in soil treated with chemical fertilisers and sprayed with pesticides.

[Xenia]

I think we are mostly in agreement - eat real foods, not processed junk, avoid sugar. Whether you are a carnivore, vegan or just an NHS GP you would all agree with that.

You can ear paleo and eat only veg by the way. There are plenty of roots and the like which our ancestors ate.

I think eat real food and avoid sugar is a pretty good thing to go by. I would put artificial sugars, diet drinks and full fat colas top of the list of what people should give up. One of my greatest victories is that the only thing the children now drink is water (after a good few years of all kinds of rubbish and I include lots of fruit juice in the rubbish category too - far better to eat an apple than apple juice).

On the other hand if your difficulty is keeping children alive and fed and getting enough calories in them to survive then of course you can see why plenty of people are simply grateful they have a loaf of bread in the house to get the children through the next day.

What is sad is that so many people in the UK eat badly and worse than their ancestors. My relatives' graves in the country (farmers) in the 1800s show they lived to 79, 80 etc they would have been eating no processed foods on the whole, grew own veg, ate sheep etc Roll forward to he next generation (my grandfather lived with 26 young men in one house in a town) and that generation were dying off so much younger and presumably moving less, less sun light, worse food, cramped in cities and had moved away from the traditional diet they ate in the country where they ate what they grew.

I don't eat in other people's home very often. A couple of weeks ago we all just worked around it. It was interesting my sons also noted the lack of the foods they eat here - they are quite into steaks, fish, roast chicken, although they do eat a lot of things like spaghetti bolognese and pizza once a week. I have never fussed. I've never sent to anyone a list of what I can or cannot eat. Most of what I eat is just normal food and thankfully most people I know eat it too rather than processed things. I don't find it too hard not to have puddings. What I never do unless asked is foist my views on eating normal real food on anyone as there is no point and people's view differ a lot. The only time I find it hard is if there are drinks and no water. Then I would ask any serving staff for some water which is usually relatively easy to find and tap water is fine for me.

[MarshaBrady]

I'm pretty much the same. Very rarely have juice at home as so sugary and the dc just have water or sometimes milk at night.

Socialising is easy as in restaurants they rarely serve carbs and you just get say duck with some vegetables or salad etc and no pudding. With friends it's usually a more relaxed thing with salads and chicken drumsticks type thing, easy to eat normally without mentioning anything.

Slightly harder when travelling as everything so geared towards carb/sugar heavy sandwiches and snacks but usually find sushi place or a supermarket.