Over reaction?

[Lesina]

Hi all, I have a Cob /Clydesdale cross who is the gentlest boy. However he does try it on when he thinks he can get away with it. At the moment his annoying habit is to try to graze on his way to & from the field. He is a strong lad but usually a sharp 'no' will stop him.

I have an arrangement with another woman on the yard, I feed and lead out in the morning and as they are on restricted grazing at the moment she brings in early afternoon if I get stuck in work.

Yesterday she was witnessed kicking at my horses head with her foot when he dropped it to graze. The person who told me is 100% reliable and did say they were shocked at her swinging her leg at him. It was no gentle nudge.

I have managed to keep a lid on my rage at any one hurting him or even just scaring him but I do think I need to have a discussion with her.

In the past I have been told I am too gentle, I am not one for using crops really or swiping at my horse, I don't shout or raise my voice to him, as I said above the most I need to do is a a firm no. I am very upset that he has been treated this way but some people do think that handling a horse as described above is OK.

So before I say something I did want to get some opinions on this? What do people think. Was it unnecessary violence towards my boy or am I just a big coddling wuss?

It doesn’t matter what he was doing. No animal should be kicked.

I am not a horse expert but with animal behaviour, more generally, any punishment to achieve a behaviour that can just as effectively be achieved with a kinder method is morally abhorrent to me.

Once you start kicking an animal in the head, you are just doing it for yourself. Not for the animal's welfare but to release your own anger or frustration.

Your big lump of Clydesdale cross will need to be taught to respect your mate or anyone else who handles him the way he respects you. He will probably be a little bit intimidating. I doubt he was caused pain or injury. It will probably be no more than blundering into a post.

To teach him respect will be exceedingly time consuming for you and anyone who handles him.
I humbly suggest it is not worth a falling out over.

@DoIhavegreeneyes , so let me get this straight, you would be ok with someone kicking or attempting to kick your pet in the face ?

@Lesina depending on how uou feel about this friend you could either tell them not to bring your horse in ( or go near it ) again. But I suspect this may make things hard for you if uou can't get away from work and be awkward when you are both on the yard.
Or ask them to not kick uour horse again and show them the way you would like them to handle him.

It’s not OK. “Where knowledge ends, violence begins” as the saying goes. Yes horses do have to respect their handlers and learn to be led to and fro politely, but there are ways and means - and kicking their heads is not one of them.
Have you tried one of the control headcollars/pressure halter type of things for him? They only come into effect if the horse pulls so may help you stop him getting his head down in the first place? He sounds lovely, if a bit greedy 😂

In honesty I don't think I need it, he isn't perfect for me but he does respect me when I say no, just gives a long suffering sigh and walks on :-). I have said to the other person that a sharp no and keeping him on a fairly short lead rope stops it. He does try it with me on occasion but he really isn't that hard to stop. Which is why I think it was completely out of order, he is in general a good boy very willing to please.

That's absolutely terrible, I wouldn't be letting her near him again.

Omg I would move yards if I saw anyone kicking our pony in the head 😨I have never seen such behaviour even at some very "tough old school" yards. I can't believe @DoIhavegreeneyes 's response. Kicking a horse in the head is most certainly not a way to teach it respect! Wtf?!

Absolutely unacceptable! Regardless of if he was being rude/disrespectful, kicking him in the head will have done nothing to teach him right from wrong. He sounds a big strong horse that can tank, and possibly he could be lead in a bridle or something like a Dually to give more control (although the headcollars that use poll pressure do need some experience and good timing to use correctly or they can confuse and frighten the horse), but it sounds as though she just lost him and then lost her temper? Unless a genuine apology was forthcoming I wouldn't want her handling my animals again I'm afraid...

Good God they'd go mental at my school if anyone did that, even the livery owners. It's not right to kick an animal. Surely a tap under the chin or a tug upwards would do if he is mostly quite biddable. We've a lazy snacker (or several) but all any of them ever need is a hand under the jaw and told to pack it in.

Disgusting. You need to stop the arrangement .

I used to stick my foot between the grass and the mouth of the big chunky mare I used to loan as she had a habit of grass grabbing but not a kick at all just more of a block. Might she have been doing this or was it definitely a kick in the head?

Sounds like he's tried it on and got away with it with her and now it's caused her a problem as it's usually harder to get the head up once down than to stop it going down in the first place, especially if they've managed it a few times and know they can resist the pressure because there's grass at the end of it! If she's not focused, they're experts at realising and using that to grab a mouthful, my old horse used to pretend he needed to pee, take the stance and then as I relaxed the rope to let him go, down went the head! He learned that by doing it once and I wasn't quick enough to stop him once he'd finished peeing and it took a good month to get him out of it again!

I'm not defending her because it's not on, you don't kick a horse in the head. I've stamped my foot close by, and even nudged with my toe against the chin to create a 'break' to get the head up with a particularly stubborn horse, but never kicked one.

It's a tricky one though because she's likely to defend her position and blame the horse, which is going to put your back up even more, and you're going to lose your reciprocal arrangement.

If you want to make it work mention that it's been noted by other liveries she's been having issues with him and work with her and watch what he's like with her? Then step in and show her how you handle it and explain it's going to take a consistent approach to get there.

In all honesty though I don't think I could get past it personally and wouldn't be entertaining her anywhere near my horse again, no matter what yard fallout that brought.

Wow the response from @DoIhavegreeneyes !!
You're absolutely right to be fuming , how dare she use violence like that , a kick to its face / head or anywhere is not acceptable and shows to me she is incompetent at not just handling your boy but being anywhere near him again.
She needs a kick to her head see if that teaches her correct behaviour maybe

You sound like the woman who kicked the OP's horse, @DoIhavegreeneyes.

@Lesina, you are perfectly within your rights to talk to her about this. I wouldn't go in all guns blazing immediately - but rather see if there is something that hasn't been factored in that explains it. I doubt it, but you never know. If it transpires that she either denies doing anything outright, or confesses, then I'd be giving it to her with both barrels.

It was a kick, the person who witnessed it said she didn’t block, actually kicked :(

I agree this is unacceptable, and has the potential to cause your horse injury. Whatever the person's reasoning, they wouldn't be handling my horse again.

However, I guess this makes it tricky from your point of view if the horses need to come in early? Is there someone else you could buddy up with or someone on the yard you could pay for services?

I do think if others handle your horse, your horse does need to be polite for them- whilst he may respect you, he may be less respectful of others, and if he is a big boy, people may find him a bit intimidating, a control head collar or even leading in his bridle might help? I know you say he doesn't need it with you but none of these things will come into play if he's polite with someone else?