Pony club and lessons

[Mrscouldron]

Hi all. I’m looking for advice regarding the pony club and lessons. My 8 year old son has been having riding lessons at his current stables for 2 months now. He has progressed but the lessons are getting a bit manic. There are now 12 children per lesson which is taking around 20 minutes to get on the horses. Then we spend 5 minutes walking round in circles. The actual lesson ends up being about 30 minutes. It’s restricting my son from progressing as quickly as he would like. Also they are registered as a pony club stable but my son isn’t able to join. Is this because he’s not experience enough? Also are group lessons usually like this or should I look else where? 

[Secondaryschoolstress]

Yes look elsewhere. 12 is far too many. Where DD’s pony is on livery, is also a pony club approved centre. They do badge days and your son would definitely be able to join in.
And group lessons are 4 at absolute maximum. And not at all hectic and the the ponies enjoy a varied work life.
doesn’t sound great where you are

[Mrscouldron]

@Secondaryschoolstress

Yes look elsewhere. 12 is far too many. Where DD’s pony is on livery, is also a pony club approved centre. They do badge days and your son would definitely be able to join in.
And group lessons are 4 at absolute maximum. And not at all hectic and the the ponies enjoy a varied work life.
doesn’t sound great where you are

Ahh ok. The lady who owns the stables is lovely so I do feel bad but my son wants to compete eventually as well so I think we need to move else where. He’s been keen for a while to maybe pursue a career in the equine field so we do feel it’s important he can do his pony club badges. I don’t ride and I don’t know much about horses so I’m trying to find out as much info as possible to help him.

[twistyizzy]

Is it a BHS approved yard? Is it definitely a Pony Club centre ie accredited by PC rather than they run an in centre pony club?
DDs yard had Mini PC from 4 yrs-11 yrs then Juniors 12+ so yes at 8 yrs old he should be able to join.
12 kids in a lesson is way too many, 6 should be the maximum imo.
I would look for another yard.

[Mrscouldron]

@twistyizzy

Is it a BHS approved yard? Is it definitely a Pony Club centre ie accredited by PC rather than they run an in centre pony club?
DDs yard had Mini PC from 4 yrs-11 yrs then Juniors 12+ so yes at 8 yrs old he should be able to join.
12 kids in a lesson is way too many, 6 should be the maximum imo.
I would look for another yard.

When you search on the pony club website it is listed so I assume it must be? 12 kids on horses is absolutely manic. No one is learning much. The age range is crazy too. There a 2.5 year old who is on a lead with the oldest one being 10. Again I don’t know if this is normal.

[twistyizzy]

@Mrscouldron no it isn't normal and it definitely isn't safe either! Sounds like a disaster tbh

[twistyizzy]

@Mrscouldron whereabouts do you live?

[Floralnomad]

@Mrscouldron if you really want to progress then private lessons would be better , he will learn more in a 30 minute private than an hour class .

[maxelly]

Wow I'm surprised a BHS/PC accredited centre allows 12 in group lessons (most have a max limit of 8 and even that I think is too much) and allows a 2.5 year old to ride in a group (3 or 4 is the usual minimum age, which would be to have a 'tiny tots' potter around on a lead rein and their parent walking beside them not in a group class with 11 others milling around, that doesn't sound very safe to me).

Absolutely look elsewhere, I'm a big fan of group lessons and PC for kids but it might be worth starting him somewhere new with a course of 6-8 private lessons (even if you only get a 30 min private lesson for the price of a 1 hour group class), he'll learn quicker and gain confidence from having the instructor's sole attention and then they can put him into an appropriate level group class with children of roughly the same age and ability. PC is great but don't panic about him needing to get badges, these are good fun and a nice way to learn and show progress but absolutely not essential for the future (he can take BHS exams if he wants a professional career further down the line). At his age he needs to be perfecting his basic skills and position, riding a range of ponies and most importantly having lots of fun so look for somewhere that offers that!

[Mrscouldron]

Liss hampshire

[Mrscouldron]

@maxelly

Wow I'm surprised a BHS/PC accredited centre allows 12 in group lessons (most have a max limit of 8 and even that I think is too much) and allows a 2.5 year old to ride in a group (3 or 4 is the usual minimum age, which would be to have a 'tiny tots' potter around on a lead rein and their parent walking beside them not in a group class with 11 others milling around, that doesn't sound very safe to me).

Absolutely look elsewhere, I'm a big fan of group lessons and PC for kids but it might be worth starting him somewhere new with a course of 6-8 private lessons (even if you only get a 30 min private lesson for the price of a 1 hour group class), he'll learn quicker and gain confidence from having the instructor's sole attention and then they can put him into an appropriate level group class with children of roughly the same age and ability. PC is great but don't panic about him needing to get badges, these are good fun and a nice way to learn and show progress but absolutely not essential for the future (he can take BHS exams if he wants a professional career further down the line). At his age he needs to be perfecting his basic skills and position, riding a range of ponies and most importantly having lots of fun so look for somewhere that offers that!

Thanks for the advice. He’s getting frustrated at the lack of go in the lessons. He wants to just get on rather than just sit about for half the lesson.

[maxelly]

On the being able to join in, each centre will have slightly different rules so you'll need to ask, usually even absolute beginners can do the unmounted stuff (learning stable management etc), some will let a lead rein child do the mounted rallies too, others will want them to be off lead, some want walk trot canter off lead reliably, usually because they have less helpers available for PC or because they focus PC sessions on mounted games which requires a slightly higher ability level (although we used to do versions of all the mounted games with our lead rein tots and they absolutely loved it, picking up stuff poles/putting it back, egg and spoon races, 'bending' through poles, round the world races etc - knackering for the leader/parent though!)

[Mrscouldron]

@maxelly

On the being able to join in, each centre will have slightly different rules so you'll need to ask, usually even absolute beginners can do the unmounted stuff (learning stable management etc), some will let a lead rein child do the mounted rallies too, others will want them to be off lead, some want walk trot canter off lead reliably, usually because they have less helpers available for PC or because they focus PC sessions on mounted games which requires a slightly higher ability level (although we used to do versions of all the mounted games with our lead rein tots and they absolutely loved it, picking up stuff poles/putting it back, egg and spoon races, 'bending' through poles, round the world races etc - knackering for the leader/parent though!)

So my son is confident trotting off the lead. The trouble is he’s not getting much time to practice it. Maybe 2-3 minutes per lesson.

[Lastqueenofscotland2]

12 is utterly ridiculous. Finding somewhere without a pony club but a better run lesson format would be so much better. Having 2 year olds in lessons is ridiculous. I’m amazed this place is BHS approved. I’d be moving and also letting the BHS know.

[AarghAgain]

I don't think this is 100% black or white question, so some food for thought below. Sorry this is a bit long...

12 riders in lessons is not great, instructor won't have much time to look at each child, but there are instructors who can handle this better than some others with only 3 kids...

The costs of running riding schools are incredibly high, and increasing month by month. This means that a lot face the choice of overcrowding the lessons / closing down, so not surprised this is happening.

There are circumstances where large lessons might be ok as well IMO. Lead rein lessons with all riders having experienced leaders (eg. working students).

Also, if your kid is confidently & competently trotting independently after having ridden for two months the centre must be doing something right, this is pretty quick progress!

20 min to get on horses - is this instructor just quickly legging them up or 20min of them encouraging the kids to do their own girth / stirrups? If first this is quite a chunk of the lesson time. If the second, this is invaluable skill to have and 20min for group of 12 is pretty damn quick!

Spending 5min in circles - this is normal, horses need to warm up, and riding circles in walk teaches controlling the direction their pony is traveling, which is a skill they need to learn. Your child will spend a lot of time riding circles in walk at any reputable riding school. If you / he just wants to go fast, I suggest taking up a different sport...

To be honest, 30min of actual riding time is not awfully bad at this level. Think of the stated lesson time as 'how long can I have staff to assist me for': Leading pony to arena, mounting, warm up, lesson content, cool down, dismount, lead back to the stable. A lot of places who don't count leading pony to arena run lessons to 45min rather than an hour. (Assuming yours is an hour from my maths).

Restricting your son's process, I would have chat with your instructor about this. What your 8 year old kid (who has been riding for two months) thinks of his own abilities / need to progress might not match with reality and what would be safe. You said you are non horsey, so I am assuming you would not be able to judge 100% either?

However, having kids younger than 6 in group lessons and only getting about 2-3 min trotting is not great. If this is recent development, I would run this past the owner and ask if this is just a temporary thing or how could it be fixed. Where as it is perfectly fine for lead reins to trot to the rear of the ride one by one, the confident trotters not requiring hands on assistance should be trotting as a ride.

I'm really surprised any riding school insurance allows 2.5 year olds in group lessons like this!

When your son wants to compete, you are likely to have to buy your own pony. Unless you just mean small in-school competitions?

Pony Club, if they are 'real' Pony Club Centre it might be that kids need to have their own ponies to join. If it is Pony Club linked Riding Centre, and they can ride school ponies, it might be that they have max. number of members they can accommodate each semester. Or minimum competency level.

Easiest thing to find out would be to ask the person who runs the Pony Club at the riding school.

Hope this helps!

[Mrscouldron]

@AarghAgain

I don't think this is 100% black or white question, so some food for thought below. Sorry this is a bit long...

12 riders in lessons is not great, instructor won't have much time to look at each child, but there are instructors who can handle this better than some others with only 3 kids...

The costs of running riding schools are incredibly high, and increasing month by month. This means that a lot face the choice of overcrowding the lessons / closing down, so not surprised this is happening.

There are circumstances where large lessons might be ok as well IMO. Lead rein lessons with all riders having experienced leaders (eg. working students).

Also, if your kid is confidently & competently trotting independently after having ridden for two months the centre must be doing something right, this is pretty quick progress!

20 min to get on horses - is this instructor just quickly legging them up or 20min of them encouraging the kids to do their own girth / stirrups? If first this is quite a chunk of the lesson time. If the second, this is invaluable skill to have and 20min for group of 12 is pretty damn quick!

Spending 5min in circles - this is normal, horses need to warm up, and riding circles in walk teaches controlling the direction their pony is traveling, which is a skill they need to learn. Your child will spend a lot of time riding circles in walk at any reputable riding school. If you / he just wants to go fast, I suggest taking up a different sport...

To be honest, 30min of actual riding time is not awfully bad at this level. Think of the stated lesson time as 'how long can I have staff to assist me for': Leading pony to arena, mounting, warm up, lesson content, cool down, dismount, lead back to the stable. A lot of places who don't count leading pony to arena run lessons to 45min rather than an hour. (Assuming yours is an hour from my maths).

Restricting your son's process, I would have chat with your instructor about this. What your 8 year old kid (who has been riding for two months) thinks of his own abilities / need to progress might not match with reality and what would be safe. You said you are non horsey, so I am assuming you would not be able to judge 100% either?

However, having kids younger than 6 in group lessons and only getting about 2-3 min trotting is not great. If this is recent development, I would run this past the owner and ask if this is just a temporary thing or how could it be fixed. Where as it is perfectly fine for lead reins to trot to the rear of the ride one by one, the confident trotters not requiring hands on assistance should be trotting as a ride.

I'm really surprised any riding school insurance allows 2.5 year olds in group lessons like this!

When your son wants to compete, you are likely to have to buy your own pony. Unless you just mean small in-school competitions?

Pony Club, if they are 'real' Pony Club Centre it might be that kids need to have their own ponies to join. If it is Pony Club linked Riding Centre, and they can ride school ponies, it might be that they have max. number of members they can accommodate each semester. Or minimum competency level.

Easiest thing to find out would be to ask the person who runs the Pony Club at the riding school.

Hope this helps!

This was a really interesting read. So parents are on the leads/walking alongside which does make it hard when you’re not horsey yourself! She says for example improve his posture but I don’t know what that really means. I tell him sit up straighter? It’s hard to have a chat as the minute our lesson finishes the next is there. As for the mounting the horses are brought to the parents and we have to get the children on and sort stirrups. Lots of the parents are not confident so a lot of faffing ensues.

It’s hard because the lady who runs the stables is really lovely and the horses are so well looked after. Like you have said I really don’t know anything about horses or how lessons should be run. I don’t want to change stables and it be a mistake but likewise I don’t want to hold my son back.

[JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon]

Nothing to stop you making enquiries with other centres or trying a few lessons elsewhere. You don't have to burn your bridges.

What you are saying doesn't sound great but without knowing your area it could be the best of a bad bunch.

I would suggest improving your knowledge if your son is really keen. The BHS horse owners certificate is useful for parents of children who might want their own pony.

[maxelly]

@Mrscouldron

This was a really interesting read. So parents are on the leads/walking alongside which does make it hard when you’re not horsey yourself! She says for example improve his posture but I don’t know what that really means. I tell him sit up straighter? It’s hard to have a chat as the minute our lesson finishes the next is there. As for the mounting the horses are brought to the parents and we have to get the children on and sort stirrups. Lots of the parents are not confident so a lot of faffing ensues.

It’s hard because the lady who runs the stables is really lovely and the horses are so well looked after. Like you have said I really don’t know anything about horses or how lessons should be run. I don’t want to change stables and it be a mistake but likewise I don’t want to hold my son back.

The whole 'parents lead the ponies/act as helpers' thing seemed to really kick off in Covid when close proximity between 'bubbles' wasn't allowed, but had been creeping in as a way of keeping costs down for a while before that, and I really, really don't like it. For a little tot who is just being led around on a pony ride, fine, they probably want mum/dad nearby anyway but for older children that are meant to be learning 'properly' - it's a no in my book. I know it's not easy for schools and costs have to be kept down but they really should provide leaders/helpers (volunteer teenagers fine), or if they can't reliably do that, don't offer group lessons to lead rein children at all, say it's privates only until they're off lead so the instructor can do the leading or lunge. Charge accordingly if need be or operate a waiting list (and schools do!) - I know people will say this means children who's parents can't afford it miss it out which is a shame but I'd rather see fewer children actually learn than more children have a crap and borderline dangerous experience.

I just don't get how you can handover a pony to a random stranger (which is all a parent is to the school after all) and expect someone who is untrained, probably unhorsey or not confident themselves to control the situation safely (even a tiny Shetland is much, much stronger than a person) and react properly in an emergency. I know schools will all say their ponies are super safe, know to follow the one in front etc etc but even the steadiest pony can trip or spook and get away from their handler if you don't act quickly as the handler. Even in smaller things like checking tack for safety and comfort of the pony, girth tightness, stirrup length etc - things which probably won't result in disaster if you get it wrong, any proper instructor would want someone who knows what they're doing to check, so no wonder it takes 20 mins to get everyone on and going. Then of course there's the issue of teaching, even experienced parents often struggle to teach their own DC (DC usually don't listen well to mum/dad!) and the leader plays a really important role in teaching a total beginner - correcting basic position faults, showing them how to manage the reins, counting the 'up-downs' when they're learning to rise - you don't need to be a qualified teacher for this, a teenager who knows how to ride themselves and under proper supervision is fine but again just expecting inexperienced parents to do this themselves basically means the school isn't providing proper instruction at all IMO, it's a glorified/loosely supervised pony ride at best. If you want your son to learn properly yes the more you know yourself the better but I personally would not have him having more of these 'lessons'...

[Mrscouldron]

@maxelly

The whole 'parents lead the ponies/act as helpers' thing seemed to really kick off in Covid when close proximity between 'bubbles' wasn't allowed, but had been creeping in as a way of keeping costs down for a while before that, and I really, really don't like it. For a little tot who is just being led around on a pony ride, fine, they probably want mum/dad nearby anyway but for older children that are meant to be learning 'properly' - it's a no in my book. I know it's not easy for schools and costs have to be kept down but they really should provide leaders/helpers (volunteer teenagers fine), or if they can't reliably do that, don't offer group lessons to lead rein children at all, say it's privates only until they're off lead so the instructor can do the leading or lunge. Charge accordingly if need be or operate a waiting list (and schools do!) - I know people will say this means children who's parents can't afford it miss it out which is a shame but I'd rather see fewer children actually learn than more children have a crap and borderline dangerous experience.

I just don't get how you can handover a pony to a random stranger (which is all a parent is to the school after all) and expect someone who is untrained, probably unhorsey or not confident themselves to control the situation safely (even a tiny Shetland is much, much stronger than a person) and react properly in an emergency. I know schools will all say their ponies are super safe, know to follow the one in front etc etc but even the steadiest pony can trip or spook and get away from their handler if you don't act quickly as the handler. Even in smaller things like checking tack for safety and comfort of the pony, girth tightness, stirrup length etc - things which probably won't result in disaster if you get it wrong, any proper instructor would want someone who knows what they're doing to check, so no wonder it takes 20 mins to get everyone on and going. Then of course there's the issue of teaching, even experienced parents often struggle to teach their own DC (DC usually don't listen well to mum/dad!) and the leader plays a really important role in teaching a total beginner - correcting basic position faults, showing them how to manage the reins, counting the 'up-downs' when they're learning to rise - you don't need to be a qualified teacher for this, a teenager who knows how to ride themselves and under proper supervision is fine but again just expecting inexperienced parents to do this themselves basically means the school isn't providing proper instruction at all IMO, it's a glorified/loosely supervised pony ride at best. If you want your son to learn properly yes the more you know yourself the better but I personally would not have him having more of these 'lessons'...

I’ve booked him a private assessment lesson with another stables. We are thinking he might have some private lessons for a while and then join their group lessons. They only have 5 per lesson and all must be off lead so is more like your saying. I’m trying to educate myself as much as possible but ultimately he needs to be taught properly. I don’t want his passion for riding to dwindle because of poorly run lessons.

[AarghAgain]

@Mrscouldron Just seen your updates about parents leading & testing new school.

You are definitely doing right thing and I whole heatedly second every line of @maxelly's post.

[boopboopbidoop]

Sounds like fun sessions for kids who like ponies rather than lessons of any sort.

You like the yard and the owner. Can you find out if they do small group sessions with a limit of 2 or 3? Can you afford private lessons? If no to these then you're going to need to move.

[Postapocalypticcowgirl]

12 is too many but I also do agree with some of the posts about the economic realities of running a riding school these days. Everything horse related has gone up in price this winter- including things like hay and straw (which used to be a reliably cheap bedding material). As such, it does make it hard for riding schools to make a profit.

There is also the issue that many riding schools shut during covid, so those who are still open are facing high demand. It can be really tricky for an owner to say no, we can't take any more people in lessons this week when they know children are desperate to ride.

If you want high quality instruction in small groups then I agree that you need to be prepared to pay for private or semi-private instruction. The new riding school with groups limited to 5 sounds good, and their policy of having everyone off the lead rein before entering group lessons sounds helpful.

I do think you have to be realistic about the fact that lessons with young children who can't do their own girth/stirrups reliably will have a bit of faffing at the start- as your son progresses and is able to do this himself, the starts of lessons will get quicker. Whatever level of lesson you are in, there will always be a period of warming up- even if all the ponies were used in the lesson prior, the riders still need to warm up, and also I don't think it's great to teach children they can get on a pony and start trotting round straight away. Five minutes in walk doing turns and circles sounds like a sensible warm up period.

I do agree that there are issues with the lessons you are having now, but I do also think you need to be realistic in your expectations as well.

[Mrscouldron]

@Postapocalypticcowgirl

12 is too many but I also do agree with some of the posts about the economic realities of running a riding school these days. Everything horse related has gone up in price this winter- including things like hay and straw (which used to be a reliably cheap bedding material). As such, it does make it hard for riding schools to make a profit.

There is also the issue that many riding schools shut during covid, so those who are still open are facing high demand. It can be really tricky for an owner to say no, we can't take any more people in lessons this week when they know children are desperate to ride.

If you want high quality instruction in small groups then I agree that you need to be prepared to pay for private or semi-private instruction. The new riding school with groups limited to 5 sounds good, and their policy of having everyone off the lead rein before entering group lessons sounds helpful.

I do think you have to be realistic about the fact that lessons with young children who can't do their own girth/stirrups reliably will have a bit of faffing at the start- as your son progresses and is able to do this himself, the starts of lessons will get quicker. Whatever level of lesson you are in, there will always be a period of warming up- even if all the ponies were used in the lesson prior, the riders still need to warm up, and also I don't think it's great to teach children they can get on a pony and start trotting round straight away. Five minutes in walk doing turns and circles sounds like a sensible warm up period.

I do agree that there are issues with the lessons you are having now, but I do also think you need to be realistic in your expectations as well.

Thank you. Yes it’s hard to know as I don’t have any horse experience. We are going to try out the new stables but still carry on with the current ones as well to see how it goes. The new ones are double the price but like you said I have to be realistic about the cost of keeping horses with less children riding.

[XelaM]

I agree with all previous posts but also your son is 8 and just started riding. You really need to tame your expectations as to what he is going to be able to do (safely). I think it's a bit early to plan an equestrian career.

Having said that, an 8-year-old did win Hickstead not that long ago but I think she has been riding quite a bit longer than 2 months 😂

[Equines]

12 is WAY too many and might not be insured. 6 is our limit and really 3 or 4 max if not all at the same level. Pony Club centres are assessed each year within their region to maintain their centre accreditation - contact the relevant region officers if there us bo reaaon for him not to join. Everyone is welcome in Pony Club, so sex, age or ability isn’t a factor. You can sign up to Pony Club on PCUK.org and nominate your preferred centre.

[Mrscouldron]

We have joined a new riding school and the difference is amazing. He’s currently having
1-1 lessons but the group ones they run are a max of 4.