What would you do- rumours about my stables

[bravelittletiger]

I'm an adult returning rider although was never a particularly good rider as a kid. I've started lessons at a local trekking centre. It's all a bit rough and ready- the owner is the only one who teaches and there isn't a huge amount of money sloshing around- only an outdoor arena for example which isn't lit and doesn't drain well. Other than that you're in the field. She has about 20 horses and ponies and she has a few women who help out and a few people she teaches. She does horse holiday weekends away quite a lot too.

I'm really loving my lessons there- she is really enthusiastic and very good at teaching and I've loved the horse I ride. She's cheaper than the other local stable I've been to and she doesn't clock watch so I always get a full lesson. I also really like the woman from what I know of her so far. My other local stable I've been for lessons and you get a strict 30 minutes on a docile rocking horse often taught by very young girls who really aren't as detailed or instructive.

Anyway- I know another lady (not very well) and she has told me to be careful of this woman and her stables. She has a horse of her own at a different yard. She won't tell me all the details because she says she doesn't want to gossip but she says that she's known people to buy horses from the stables and they have been riddled with worms. There was also an incident a few years ago with a child who got bitten at these stables- I said I knew about it and she said "yes and a few other things have happened like that" and didn't elaborate. She just told me to be careful a few times.

What do I do?! Do I abandon my lessons at the stables I really enjoy or keep going and just "be careful" whatever that means?

I should also say that in terms of care the horses always look so well cared for and I've been there when the farrier was there once and all seemed fine other than one of her horses was being treated for lamininitis with special shoes. She is strict with her horses telling them off for bad manners etc but tbh this always seems sensible given the size of the animals! She mentioned before she used to have a lot more ponies but had to get rid of them during covid not sure if that's true or not...

Haha no. Horsey women can be bitchier than normal. A kid getting bitten isn’t a huge alarm either, kids get hurt. They’re fearless and do things they shouldn’t regardless of how many times you tell them. Mine are on grass livery and I work for my livery. If I had a quid for every time I’ve told my kids to stay away from the stallions or leave the youngsters or put a bloody hat on to ride etc I’d be paying full livery without breaking a sweat. Unless you’ve seen something with your own eyes you don’t like I’d take it with a pinch of salt.

Anyone who says "I don't want to gossip." wants to gossip. Avoid.

As you're a returning rider I should think it would be very clear to you if something was wrong at the stables you love. Hard to miss horses 'riddled with worms' and bad behaviour.

You seem happy and comfortable there, horses seem well cared for.

I'd stay where you are.

Two sides to every story and all that.

Make your own opinion. Horsey people are notoriously bitchy/world experts on every aspect of riding/horses

Child who got bitten??? My horse will bite anyone who gives him a carrot because he's a muggy sod. If you like it stay.

Kids get bitten around horses- even, say, 10 years ago, that sort of thing would be a non-event. Unless the incident is a lot more serious than I'm imagining (e.g. permanent scarring?), it's just one of those things that happens sometimes around horses. It's not ideal, obviously, but when I was a child, I was bitten and kicked by riding school ponies- it was more accepted as normal. I was never seriously hurt, and I learnt a lot at that place.

If her horses currently look in good condition and well cared for, it's hard to know about what's been said about ponies "riddled with worms" being sold. It could, possibly, be an exaggeration, or perhaps she did have some problems due to covid. I think it's very hard to judge on hearsay.

If you are happy with the stables and enjoying your lessons there, I wouldn't worry about gossip. There's always a lot of gossip in the equestrian world- some will be based in truth, some will not be.

This child who got bitten- it ended up in the local magistrates court! I actually read about it before I started riding there but didn't think anything of it because as you've said I thought well yeah horses sometimes do bite...apparently the child was walking through the yard and the horse was stabled and lent out of its stable and bit the kid. The woman who owned the yard is on record saying that the horse is known to be a bit arsey which did make me laugh because she was clearly not trying to hide anything. Sounds like the kid got too close.

The horse I ride is lovely- always clean and clipped and is chilled and a softy and all the others seem similar to be honest!

Yes it was very serious- the child needed surgery afterwards. Apparently the horse was roped off at the time but not well enough so the judge in the case wasn't impressed. I'm guessing she no longer has that horse because I've never come across any like that- they are all soft as anything as far as I've seen.

Worms and one bite? She's shit stirring. I'd ignore her!

Haha ok thank you!!

I'd carry on and 'be careful'.

I'm just not really sure what that means! I will obviously still keep an eye out and be careful when riding as you always would but other than that what can I do?

Ignore her , you should be able to tell whether the horses are well looked fatter by how they look . WRT biting , my first horse ( RIP ) nearly gave my mum a mastectomy one day and thought nothing of taking a chunk out of anyone if she felt like it .

That does sound really nasty, and like perhaps some mistakes were made there. And things like that will spread in the local horsey community, and people will judge/exaggerate.

However, people are allowed to learn from their mistakes, so if it seems like things are better now, I wouldn't let it put me off entirely.

I think if you are happy there, and savvy enough to keep yourself safe, then I wouldn't let a one off incident put you off- although I would definitely be cautious. But equally that sort of event could have made her really cautious too, so it's hard to say.

Unless you are planning on buying a horse off her I’d not worry. But I would make sure I had my own liability insurance, that would be my approach to “being careful”. BHS Gold or similar.

Enjoy your lessons just don’t buy a horse from her or walk to close to stable doors that one could nip you over!

I've got my own insurance so that I can ride there outside of lessons sometimes so that's something at least I suppose

Not sure I want to know the answer to this but what happens to horses that bite? Please tell me they can be re homed.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl that's good advice. I do actually think it might have spooked her a bit- they seem to run a lot smaller operation than they once did and they don't have much money clearly as they don't teach lots. It's hard to imagine which horse was the biter as they all seem soft as anything...I wonder if she might have actually got rid.

Was just thinking the same 🥹

A long time since I had horses, but a biter is, I think, always a biter. Not at all suitable for a riding school.

Biting's pretty far down the list of fear/aggression responses in a horse's toolkit - they'll run away, kick, or both first if they're genuinely afraid or aggressive. In terms of a horse's natural weapons, the bite isn't the strongest as they're herbivores and not really designed to bite and hang on!

Most often what happens is veterinary assessment to rule out medical issues, then additional training by a competent handler and if necessary sale to an experienced home.

I don’t think I’d care too much about that that woman has to say, if she was actually interested in your well-being she would have told you the full story.

I would be more concerned with how strict she is with the horses. Only you can say if she goes too far but theres a lot of casual cruelty in the horse world and I am ashamed to say I carried on riding somewhere for too long where I thought the handling of the horses was wrong and too harsh but I didn’t say anything and I regret it deeply. I will never do that again. So I would say make up your own mind about what you see.

Well I'd say it depends, there are bites and bites, horses very very rarely 'attack' a human in earnest using their teeth (breeding stallions aside whose hormones can cause them to be aggressive but these should be kept on specialist stud yards and handled by grooms experienced in working with stallions) and cases like the one OP mentions are thankfully incredibly rare - light nips on the arm or shoulder are common (and bloody painful!) but don't usually cause any real damage and are just a horse's way of saying 'get out of my space', so that horse just needs to be handled with care in the future and maybe checked out for any veterinary issues causing pain. True, aggressive bites can happen but unlike with a dog where if they are attacked or anxious they will bite/attack back as a natural protective instinct, a horse as a flight animal is much more likely to try and run away or to kick out or strike with their feet than to bite, if a horse does resort to teeth IMO it would usually be because they were very frightened indeed such as a feral horse being cornered and stabled for the first time, or suffering quite badly from an illness or injury causing a lot of pain or even neurological issues. So while obviously if a horse in that kind of circumstance had badly bitten someone it would need to have to be seriously looked into and the root cause resolved, it wouldn't necessarily be a death sentence for that horse if that's what you are asking, although like I say a health issue that bad might mean PTS was the kindest option, or they might need specialist handling in future e.g. not being stabled, it would all depend on the circumstances really.

The only serous cases of horse bites I've personally known have been IMO largely 'accidental' on the part of the horse, where the horse has clearly gone to show their teeth at and/or nip something that has momentarily frightened or irritated them but misjudged it and ened up biting down instead, their teeth are huge with very strong jaws designed for grinding down huge quantities of grass, so while they won't usually lacerate like a dog or other predator's teeth, if they accidentally catch a person or limb at the wrong angle they can do some bad damage in a single blow it doesn't have to be a prolonged attack, this can particularly be the case if it's a child running slightly below their head or a person that suddenly stands up into their field of vision, the combination of fast movement that startles them and the angle can do the trick - I'd classify this as non aggressive (horses will bare their teeth and nip their field mates in play or as a 'warn off' all the time without ever actually attacking one another) and so IMO while if you have a horse that has been known to do this a reasonable person would take precautions such as a grill over the stable door or warning signs, the case the OP mentions may well just have been a really unfortunate freak accident which can happen any time around horses. If so it's unlikely the horse would have been destroyed as a result, moved to a different yard without children running around maybe but the owner probably would have kept him/her rather than rehoming. There's no equivalent of the dangerous dogs act for horses as far as I know so if a horse has caused some kind of serious accident it's down to the individual owner to decide what to do after the fact (which IMO can lead to an awful lot of dangerous horses being kept in unsuitable conditions by ignorant or frankly irresponsible owners, but not because of biting specifically)....