Spooky Warmblood Gelding

[HRHPrincessMegan]

Help! I have a horse share, riding an athletic warmblood gelding once a week. He is mostly lovely and great to ride but he spooks very easily, mostly at things I haven’t even noticed like a branch or stone. Occasionally it will be something more understandable like a plastic bag or deflated balloon.

He has 2 types of spooks. The first is a completely out of the blue, dive to the side kind of spook which is over almost as soon as it’s ended. The second comes with a bit more warning: he’ll stop, raise his head and then might either dive and run, or spin and run. He will most certainly spook during the course of our ride each week.

So far I haven’t been unseated but 2 other riders have come off him, one ended up in hospital and no longer rides him. Naturally this concerns me but I don’t want to give up on him. Does anyone have experience of WB? Are they spooky by nature as I have been reading? Can it be trained out of him?

[Retrainingaracehorse]

I ride spooky horses (not through choice) and some horses are definitely more spooky that others and some breeds have a reputation for being more spooky I know little about warmbloods but ride TB's and arabs they definitely have a reputation for being more spooky. Your horse is in good company the legendary Tamarillo was notoriously spooky. Im no expert but this is what Ive found over the years.
Establish a good relationship on the ground, have high expecttions, including ease of picking out feet, always tie your horse up when you do things, if possible always groom him thoroughly every time you see him. Ditto when you ride have high expectations, he should stand still when you mount, walk when you say walk trot when you say trot etc etc.
You need to be a confident but relaxed rider to ride a spooky horse not constantly on edge. Its tempting to get anxious, climb up the reins etc, you are reinforcing the idea that there is something to worry about. Your horse is looking to you for reassurance. If you horse stops and looks than you need to reassure him that all is fine, try not to get anxious this is going to be difficult with the history, keep the reins longish but not so long you dont have sufficient control of the direction his head is looking, rub his withers/neck, allow him to look, use your voice reassure him that its ok, don't let him look away, keep him looking in the direction you want him to go, as soon as you feel him relax slightly ask him firmly to walk on not before. If he just takes one step praise him with your voice rub his withers/neck let him look again and soon as he relaxes ask him to walk forward repeat till he's gone past. If he tries to turn away spin him round yourself in a tight circle three or four times, and end up facing the way he should have gone, make turning away a more unpleasant option than looking at the thing thats worrying him, then go back to the above, let him look etc. You turning back must never be an option; Never give in how ever much of an easier option this appears to be, unless you have no choice because of traffic!
Other things to think about:
My horse is spooky at times, Ive only recently got him and he has very limited experience of doing things on his own, he was doing very well and I think I slightly misjudged the situation went an introduced to him to more new things/routes to quickly and he lost he nerve and got nappy so we went back to the routes where he was happy for a few rides and then tried again and he's fine now.
Can you ride/lunge him in the school again you are reinforcing a good relationship with him, have high expectations of behaviour.
Some horses are more spooky if they're not hacked out regularly.
Some horses are more spooky the fitter they are.
Are they're any physical causes: eyes site being the most obvious, uncomfortable tack, back problems chronic lameness etc all can make a horse more spooky.
Does he do it with everyone? If he doesn't do it with his owner ask yourself is she a more confident rider than you or has she more established relationship with him. How does she manage him?
Whats he fed? I've found sugar beet can make some spooky (other may disagree) I feed alfa beet instead.
Can you hack out with other horses for a while this may give him more confidence.
Spooking is a PITA and as you know can be dangerous especially on roads I think if you cant resolve it for any reason and as its not your horse you'll need to ask yourself if this horse is right for you? There are plenty of shares out there.

[Gabilan]

Are they're any physical causes: eyes site being the most obvious, uncomfortable tack, back problems chronic lameness etc all can make a horse more spooky.

With a warmblood, that would be my first thought. They can be quirky but so many apparently spooky horses have a sudden character transformation when it's discovered their saddle doesn't fit or that there is an underlying health issue. Horses are on high alert when they're in pain and much more likely to spook if they fear their flight response is impeded by pain or discomfort.

[Heisenjurg]

Keep his mind engaged - our AA will spook at literally everything, but settles and relaxes once she’s focusing on her work. Keep him active in the walk, do a lot of transitions / serpentines, etc., just make sure he’s always focussed on you and not getting bored. Hope this helps!

[LadyLance]

Firstly, do you have your own public liability insurance? If you're hacking him out and he causes an accident, you could be liable for any damages caused- probably the easiest way to get this is through BHS gold membership, but there are lots of other options too.

It sounds like this is a fairly new share, and he may improve as he comes to trust you more. The first type of spook sounds like it's out of genuine fear, the second may be more to do with getting out of work. Is he better if you ride in company or on familiar routes?

However, I do agree that spookiness can also have physical causes- and they aren't always obvious. Untreated ulcers can make a horse behave in this way, for example. However, as a sharer, there's a limit to what you can do about this, but I would have it in my mind that if his behaviour starts getting worse or becomes dangerous, then you may need to walk away. Realistically, as a sharer, you don't really have standing to start asking about tack/feed/vet treatment- unless you have been sharing for a long time and noticed sudden changes in the horse.

Does he do this in the school? Could you have lessons on him?

Some horses are naturally spooky, and I agree, keeping him engaged mentally will really help. If you're hacking out, you can still do transitions on the road if it is quiet. Other movements such as leg yield and shoulder in/shoulder fore can also help keep horses interested, although obviously you should only do this when there is no traffic around. Keeping him forwards and between your leg and hand may also help.

If you find it's getting to the stage where riding him is making you more nervous, he will feed off your nervousness, and it can become a vicious cycle. There's no reason to persevere with a share unless you are benefiting from it, don't think of it as "giving up" if you do decide that this isn't right for you right now.

[HRHPrincessMegan]

Thank you for your responses, you’ve given me a lot to consider.

The share has been going since September. The owner no longer rides him as she came off after a spooking incident, was knocked out and broke many bones. He’s been riden by 2 sharers since and he spooks with everyone. And yes, I do have insurance!

I also thought his eyes could be troubling him and he does have a couple of saddle sores. On the latter, it has been checked by both vet and fitter and I’ve been told the sores should clear. Nothing has been done about his eyes. It’s an awkward situation as the owner wants shot of him and doesn’t want to spend any money on him. One of the other sharers was going to buy him but is now having second thoughts as she recently came off him too after he spooked. I feel desperately sorry for him but I’m not in a position to buy him.

I’ve accepted that there is a high probability that he will spook when he are out - I only ever hack him on bridle paths - so I’m fairly relaxed with him. I do find it hard to stop him when he runs away proper - it’s like he has the bit between his teeth - but he’s only done this twice with me.

Going forward I think I should have some lessons with him and try to get his brain engaged. Obviously it’ll benefit me too.

[JustKeepStumbling]

Ulcers always make mine spooky. As soon as the ulcers are under control the spookiness stops.

[LadyLance]

If he's got saddle sores, presumably he's not being ridden right now? If so, I'd take this time to do some ground work with him- if he has more confidence in you, this may help with the spookiness.

I agree, lessons may help if he is also spooky in the school.

Although you need to not get wound up, I would say "relaxed" is possibly the wrong frame of mind for hacking a horse like this. You need to keep confident yourself, obviously, but keep him engaged and give him lots to think about so that he doesn't have the chance to get distracted and spook.

It does sound like he is in a difficult situation- but if he has potential the owner should advertise him as a project, and someone will take him on. It's likely she would have to take a financial hit, compared to how much she bought him for- but equally right now she's spending money on keeping him and not enjoying him. But none of that is your problem.

[Rollingdinosaur]

I'd walk away from this share. It sounds likely that he is in pain, or his eyesight isn't good, and the owner won't address it. It is not fair to keep riding him if that is the case, and to be honest it sounds far too dangerous to be worth the risk.

Not all warmbloods are spooky, mine is the complete opposite to that. Most horses who are in pain will be though.

[GothMummy]

I was going to tell you all about my spooky standardbred and what worked for him, but having read further on and having read that he has put people in hospital and his owner is too scared to ride him, and he has saddle sores, I would say don't ride this horse! There are lots of horses looking for shares, not as complicated as yours. Two on my yard ....if you are in the East Midlands? PM me if you are, and I can pass on details.

[Gabilan]

he does have a couple of saddle sores. On the latter, it has been checked by both vet and fitter and I’ve been told the sores should clear

That would really ring alarm bells for me. Saddle sores will clear if allowed time with no saddle to heal and then fitted with another saddle, one that properly fits. They won't clear if the cause of them is still present. It does sound as if he is rather unloved and uncared for by his current owner, who isn't making a decision about his future. She needs to step and take care of him, not palm him off onto sharers who are then put in a potentially dangerous position.

[HRHPrincessMegan]

Thanks for all the comments and advice. I’ve been turning them over these past couple of days. He is unloved and uncared which is probably why I’m not sure I’m ready to throw in the towel on him yet. His food is being addressed as of this week so I will see if it’s had an impact on Friday.

I think a proper vet MOT would be beneficial for him but there is no chance his owner would pay for this. What would this cost? And would it include checking eyes and if he has ulcers? More importantly could I have this done for him? I’d ask his owner and pay for it.

[Gabilan]

If the owner is OK with him having a vet check, I would phone a good equine practice and speak to them. I'm sure their are MNers who can recommend vets depending on area!

The trouble is, it really does depend what they might find and what tests they then might want to do. A basic physical check over, listen to heart and lungs, inspect his eyes, won't break the bank. Anything involving scanning, scoping or x-raying will likely run into 100s. However, a good vet will talk through recommendations with you.

[LadyLance]

A vet check should include a quick eye check but would not normally include scoping for ulcers. However, a vet may not be willing to give you information about some-one else's horse.

The problem is, if something is found, are you willing to pay for potentially ongoing treatment for this issue? If he has ulcers, for example, he could end up needing costly medication long term. If he has kissing spines, there are various treatments, none of which are cheap. Most problems, at the very least, would need time off work to allow him to recover.

If she has sharers, is she relying on the financial contribution from them? If it turns out he has a condition where he needs some time off of work, then the other sharer may walk away, leaving her out of pocket.

Also, if she wants to sell the horse, and finds out that he has a problem e.g. poor vision, then it ends up becoming a complicated situation, as you've arguably reduced the value of the horse by finding this out (yes, the new owners might have got him vetted, but not everyone does this, especially if the horse is being advertised cheaply).

Unless you are willing to take the horse off her hands for a nominal fee and do the veterinary investigations yourself, then I think you should walk away from the situation and say why. It may give her a bit of a wake up call.

I can understand not wanting to do this and feeling sorry for the horse, but honestly, unless you are willing to potentially fund vet treatment long term, finding out the cause of the problem could just make things worse.

[Retrainingaracehorse]

Op Im with LadyLance on this one:
"I can understand not wanting to do this and feeling sorry for the horse, but honestly, unless you are willing to potentially fund vet treatment long term, finding out the cause of the problem could just make things worse.?
A previous horse I owned 25+ years ago had ulcer and even then the cost was about £1500 for diagnosis and treatment. A lot of the treatment of them is change of management. They are very common in racehorses who are generally not turned out or very little and are fed little fibre and lots of carb food in their diets, some info [https://www.bwequinevets.co.uk/187/equine-gastric-ulcers-explained-specialist here]] could you facilitate this change of management where he is currently kept?
"Unless you are willing to take the horse off her hands for a nominal fee and do the veterinary investigations yourself"
Never forget a sick horse is at the very least as expensive to keep as healthy horse if not more expensive and there are plenty of healthy horses looking for good homes, no one in their right mind unless you have very deep pockets would take on a horse whose sick.
Thirdly what happens if you pay for these investigations and and nothing is found and he's just basically a spooky horse?. Go back to my first comment re Tamarillo. II'm sure had investigations. What then?
How good a rider are you OP? Have you thought about having a few lessons by a good instructor and get their opinion on your riding, many riders are very ineffective in their leg, are you a passenger or actively in control of the horse when you ride? (IME most people are the former) Or get a really experienced person to ride him, I used to now someone who took total raving lunatics for a living 20% didn't display any of the problems there owners said they had, he wasn't a stylish rider but he was just bloody good with exceedingly difficult horses.

[Retrainingaracehorse]

Sorry I failed with the info to gastric ulcers in horses here it is again.

[HRHPrincessMegan]

You’re both right, I’m at risk of overstepping my role here. I am a sharer not the owner. I will continue with the status quo for the moment and see how things go. I’m starting lessons next week which will benefit us both, he needs to use his brain and need to learn how to engage him more. I rode competitively up to university (junior eventing), scaled it back majorly while studying and not very much since which is a very long gap. I looked through the information on ulcers but it doesn’t resonate much with his behaviours.

[LadyLance]

I'm just thinking more about the saddle sores. Is he still being ridden with these? If so, he's in pain and discomfort, so no wonder he's reacting. It also suggests to me that the saddle fit may not be great, which again could be causing him to react.

If it's purely behavioural, then lessons may help, and you may find him less spooky in the school, anyway.

I understand feeling sorry for the horse and not wanting to walk away, but if the owner is going to sell him anyway, it may be worth looking around for other shares and see what else is available.

[Retrainingaracehorse]

I shared for a while, I was the sole rider, his owner was scared of him. It’s a weird relationship as time goes by you develop your own ideas about how the particular horse should be managed both on and off the ground and the owner has their own ideas and this can cause conflict. In the end I decided that I might as well channel my time and expertise into my own horse project.
OP how much is this horse ridden? My horse which I think it would be fair to say has spooking tendencies is ridden 5-6 times a week, he hacks out on his own 3-4 times sometimes a short ride (20 mins) after schooling sometimes a longer one. The more he goes out the more confident he gets in me and himself so the less spooky. Today he was very good he’s really progressed since I first tried him out I’ve had him for nearly three months ago. I also lunge him twice a week, as well as strengthening his back muscles hind quarters etc and suppleness this has definitely benefitted our relationship in terms of his obedience and listening to me. If you only riding him once a week it’s going to take you longer to establish a relationship with this horse and for him to know what your expectations are.
I agree about keeping their minds occupied whilst out hacking, I ride mine on a long rein holding the reins where the rubber meets the leather, I’m expect him to walk purposely in a long swinging walk with his head and neck stretched forward, I’m totally obsessed about rhythm and straightness I’m looking for proper four time walk that’s not rushed. This requires quite a lot of concentration from both of us, I sometimes leg yield from side to side or shorten and lengthen his stride, make him halt occasionally (and hopefully not fidget) is good, and making sure he stays balanced during the up and down transition is also good (not poking his nose which is a TB habit) Also if it’s safe i.e. not traffic ride just holding onto the buckle and again expect him to carry on walking purposely swinging through his back stretching his neck forward and keeping him straight just using my legs. Going up and down hills, not swinging his hind quarters in going down and using his hind legs effectively going up hill all on a long rein are also good exercises for you both. On wider roads I walk and trot loops changing the bend as I cross the middle of the road again concentrating a good purposeful swinging stride and rhythm.
I regularly see riders on their phones when hacking out I know I’m an old fogey but I fail to see how you can concentrate on what you and your horse are doing and play on your phone at the same time.

[Retrainingaracehorse]

I guess if the saddle was pressing on his withers and now it’s defintely not and neither is his numnah it might be ok to ride him.

[Booboostwo]

Usually I would recommend a visit from an experienced equine vet to rule out physical causes but you are in a very difficult position being the sharer and not the owner. Ask the owner if she would be willing to try a magnesium supplement. It's quite cheap, if it works you should be able to see results within a few weeks and when it works it helps a lot.

[lizzielou80]

My sisters WB was 24 and still did that! Some just are. Also if they are a bit girthy, maybe ulcers can contribute! Alternatively share another horse sorry!

[HRHPrincessMegan]

I had my first lesson with him yesterday and it went well. When it comes to ground work and the arena he’s a lazy sod and it took a lot of work of my part to get him moving forwards! There is no doubt that I will benefit from these lessons and that’ll build his confidence in me too.

His future is still uncertain. The other sharer who is thinking of buying him is undecided and I am now getting a better insight as to the complexity of sharing. She is not particularly happy that I am having lessons on him and really only wants me to hack him out. Her reason is that she is having lessons and doing groundwork with him so feels he’ll get bored. I see her point but think it’s a little unfair to me to have all the potential risk of him misbehaving while hacking.

Overall he seems a little better behaved now that he’s on a new diet. I think I’ll keep it going for the summer but realistically, it’s not going to work out in the long term.

[Booboostwo]

Asking you not to have lessons when he is spooky on hacks and she’s come off him on a hack is ridiculous. Why does the other sharer get to dictate what you do on your own time anyway?

[IheartCaptainHolt]

The other sharer is being massively unreasonable there. If she wants to be the only one who schools him she needs to buy him or have him in full loan, cheeky cow! Then she can pay someone to take the risk and hack him out

[HRHPrincessMegan]

That’s what I thought too. Clearly if she decides to buy him the dynamic should change but it already seems to have done so. I’ve said that I’m going to keep going with the lessons and will take him for a 20/40!hack after. I’ll have to rethink everything if she takes ownership. I’m paying £125 a month for a weekly ride.