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The tack room

im just not getting any better - intensive lessons?

143 replies

ThatVikRinA22 · 22/06/2013 23:43

my RI is a stickler for "proper" riding - she is of the Sylvia Loch school of thought - which is brilliant, knowledgeable, but im just not getting it....

i go one step forwards, then 3 back.

its worse as im an adult learner. RI is really very good, and says yes, you can get by from kicking and pulling, but she teaches properly the use of leg aids (i e - riding from the ankle UP...no kicking unless for discipline)

im worse than useless. She talks about collecting the horse and riding in front of the leg....now i understand these as concepts but i have all on trying to coordinate my body, legs and arms.....

i do not want to give up - it gives me such pleasure, and i know enough about horse care and stable management now to own my own pony, RI often leaves me to it if she needs a few hours off....and i love helping out, plus i dearly would love my own pony.

im thinking of booking a series of intensive lessons daily for a week or so, because just as i seem to be getting it i go backwards again. My legs will not do as they are asked....(!!) i give the poor horse mixed messages, i cant seem to keep my heels down and toes in....and my lower legs refuse to stay where i put them originally!

im getting so annoyed with myself! RI says i am perfectly normal but im not improving at all.

because i help out RI says she will do me a deal on intensive lessons.

im feeling a bit despondent. I so want to learn. i can do everything now with horses except ride them!

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EMUZ · 26/06/2013 16:36

Oh yeah you have to laugh Grin
Mine is usually when horse refuses to do anything except half pass (because she thinks circles are beneath her) and I give up and collapse on her neck laughing with no steering

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Mirage · 26/06/2013 19:54

vicar if you come down to ride with 50balesofhay,get in touch with me.I'm about half an hour from her and if you'd like,you can come over and ride the saintly dpony.She is 13hh,but happily carries me at 5ft 8.She is a fabulous hacker on the road or fields and has never ever put a foot wrong ridden.

If you don't fancy riding on the road,we have a fair bit of land to hack over.She is honestly the most bombproof,honest pony ever and will not tank off,buck,rear or freak out at tractors and stuff.Smile

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Ehhn · 26/06/2013 21:17

Haven't read to the end of the thread so apologies if someone else has mentioned it... You need Pilates!

Not being able to do rising trot comfortably is more to do with core stability and balance. Pilates will work wonders I promise :-) my friends who are professional event riders use it and so do I for my lowly BE novice effort (one day I will get back to intermediate- Pilates will help keep me in the saddle!!)

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SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 27/06/2013 00:18

My RI friend reckons your RI sounds out of her depth! She sounds like she is much more dressage training orientated than starting a novice. Friend reckons that over a 10 hour summer course, she could get 70% of her adult beginners up to trying a canter in the woods level. Also, that in her opinion, she is aiming too high. Riding schools have bombproof old nags I order that beginners can be a bit unsubtle and not upset the ponies, and that you need to master kicking and steering with the reins, before you can progress to riding with your seat. It's not even as if you are a total novice. You just need bringing back into it and refining.
She also suggests a share with someone sensible and lessons with someone else.

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ThatVikRinA22 · 27/06/2013 01:08

saggy i would love to take yours but 13, 1 does sound a bit small for me...?

RI does not allow kicking unless as a disciplinary measure - she teaches you to use pressure of your inner calf - which is spot on really, i just wish i could do a bit more.
i am bored. and i feel a bit of a failure at it.

she does teach well though - all the kids are fabulous at it. She has a group last thing saturday and they are absolutely brilliant - can go from walk to canter with invisible aids, jump, the works.

but she does not have many adults for lessons.
i dont want to give it up because i love it, ive just stopped enjoying my lessons so much because there is always so much wrong with what im doing. im not sitting up straight enough, or stopping fast enough, or my hands are too high, or my toes are out, or my heels are up, or my lower leg is coming forward, or im rising too high, or im not in front of the leg, or her head is too low, or im walking too fast when i should be maintaining contact to bring her head up and get her attention, or one reign is too long, or ive not got the reigns the right length if something happens, or im not getting the transition smoothly enough, the list goes on.

the horse im on isnt a comfortable ride - she is very "downhill" and i find myself tipping forward, her canter isnt nice, nor is her trot. She has a stifle problem.

RI is good but yes, a control freak and a perfectionist. She is used to either littlies who cant ride but are on a lead and in a group, or she is used to proper riders, who can ride.
im neither.

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saintmerryweather · 27/06/2013 06:42

so are you going to go elsewhere for a lesson given that everyone has said that your RI is no good for you?

it depends on how much.highland is in saggys pony as to whether she would be too small, natives are very strong and some of them.take up your leg very well so you might not look big on her

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saintlyjimjams · 27/06/2013 06:55

The corrections she's making are all ' normal' corrections. I get told that sort of thing all the time but loose in the school & given as advice rather than tellings-off. The reason I stopped riding at the place in York was because I was fed up with being told off (and I was in my early 20's then). It really put me off going back to riding lessons & I did just hack after that.

15 years later when I decided to try schooling lessons again I was stunned at how different it was - you only learn if you are free to make mistakes because you have to learn to feel the horse really & you can only learn that by exploring & making some mistakes.

I feel utterly free to make mistakes now (which I didn't in York) & it has allowed me to progress a lot because I'm not afraid to try - if it goes pear shaped I just try again (in the past I was scared to try because I wasn't allowed to get it wrong).

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Aetae · 27/06/2013 07:35

If you don't want to compete then consider switching RIs to one who doesn't do dressage. IME the dressage crowd focus very much on perfect body positioning rather than control of the horse, and actually there is more than one way to ride.

My RI trained racehorses and he was brilliant - much more outcome focused and less worried about my toes etc. My seat as a result will never win any prizes for prettiness but I'm great at leg aids/riding with my whole body and I'm stuck like glue to the saddle. Riding a quarter horse out hacking also really helped my seat - it taught me how to do a sitting trot because their jog gait is so smooth.

Core strength will also really help you - try to do some Pilates every day. You need it to control the horse through posture and legs while keeping your hands soft.

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daisy5569 · 27/06/2013 07:42

There is a difference between kicking and using your leg, if they don't answer leg aids then this should be backed up with a tap of a schooling whip. Appreciate what you are saying about the horse being 'downhill' but that and what you are saying about being told off for using your legs in the wrong way just reinforces the simple fact that this RI and her horses of limited abilities are not the place for you.

I ride at a great R/School with horses of varying abilities, some very green so you get to bring them on and really see improvements but I also ride a big heavy cob, who they use in lessons for all abilities. He totally takes the pee when he has a beginner or someone not confident on him, he cuts corners, runs into canter, leans on the riders hands etc, however I can get him into a lovely outline and have even rode flying changes on him. They may be seen as old R/School plods but some of them are not as silly as they look!

You need to find somewhere where you can ride horses who are up to the job for beginners or less confident riders, with a more basic instructor who as others say will allow you to make mistakes and then maybe when you are a bit more experienced and more importantly confident go back to your RI for lessons if you really want to although I think if you rode elsewhere you wont want to!
In an earlier post you said you consider this lady as a friend... then if she is a friend she will understand why you are not satisfied with her lessons, I stopped having lessons with my first RI mainly for financial issues but also because I didnt feel I was getting enough attention as she took lessons of mixed ability, I moved to a different RI at the same R/School. I worried that the original RI would be offended as like you she was a friend and I saw her out of work and rode another horse at the yard she kept hers on, but it wasnt a problem at all and she understood that pupils come and go all the time.

Didnt mean to write this much!... one final thing I will say is remember Riding is supposed to be FUN Grin

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carabos · 27/06/2013 08:05

This thing about not hacking out precious, sensitive dressage horses is all bollocks. My horse, currently competing PSG /Inter1 hacks out a lot. I will be taking him for a spin round the fields tonight and he's competing on Sunday.

If your RI is not able to produce a schooled, mannerly ride then she's in the wrong job. All of Carl Hester's horses hack, including the gold medallists.

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ExitPursuedByABear · 27/06/2013 08:45

They would get bloody bored if it was all schooling and no playing.

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NotGoodNotBad · 27/06/2013 08:54

ive just stopped enjoying my lessons so much because there is always so much wrong with what im doing. im not sitting up straight enough, or stopping fast enough, or my hands are too high, or my toes are out, or my heels are up, or my lower leg is coming forward, or im rising too high, or im not in front of the leg, or her head is too low, or im walking too fast when i should be maintaining contact to bring her head up and get her attention, or one reign is too long, or ive not got the reigns the right length if something happens, or im not getting the transition smoothly enough, the list goes on.

I've had my own horse for 3 years and get lots of these things wrong regularly! But it doesn't stop me cantering, or hacking out, or jumping. Now and then my horse will spook, spin round, run off, or buck... but I (hardly ever) fall off, and have a great time with him.

Honestly, if you wait till all these things are perfect before you move on to something more interesting you will be 96. Are the kids allowed to ride off the lunge and canter even if they are still working on this stuff? Bet they are, and that's why they make progress.

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EMUZ · 27/06/2013 10:02

Agree 100% with carabos. Mine hacks and jumps and lets me clamber about bare back

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SlowlorisIncognito · 27/06/2013 12:56

Vicar I am about 5'4" and ride a fine boned 13.2 regularly (although I am a bit lighter than you), a more solid horse at 13-13.2 would be able to carry you easily. I have quite short legs in proportion to my body, and find it much easier to get my legs on when riding ponies than horses- I think this may be part of your problem! I don't actually enjoy riding anything much bigger than about 15.2 as I can't get my legs on so well.

I have been in various riding schools over the years, working and as a child, and I have never known any who would keep you on the lunge for this long. You are honestly not that rubbish. If your instructor does not have a safe horse for you to learn on off the lunge then this is the wrong place for you. It's not all about being perfect, learning to control a horse independantly is important too.

I currenly ride at a riding school because I am a student, and can't afford my own, as well as a little bit of schooling children's ponies, and over the summer I am able to trade my labour for rides.

To give you a comparison, a begginer at this riding school would have a few lessons on the lead rein to get the basics of their position (the owner doesn't like her horses lunged for more than 20 minutes regularly, so doesn't do many lunge lessons), then they are let off, with someone walking beside them, and progress to riding independently.

If you have been riding for six months now, you would be allowed to hack out- although on private tracks, so it is a bit different- and you would have probably got a canter out on the tracks. Canter is easier to learn in a straight line and with a horse in front, the intructor can control the speed.

Ideally, a good riding school has a range of horses- safe plods for the beginners, and horses capable of more advanced work to move on to. If she only has two horses you can ride on at 10.5, then it's really not an ideal place to learn, especially if neither of those horses are very safe.

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needastrongone · 27/06/2013 13:30

It did cross my mind, in my limited experience, why she would give you lessons if there wasn't a suitable ride?

Don't forget also that getting you to ride 'perfectly' is super on the lunge but will you remember this when you are about to jump, during a hack etc etc? In real life situations.

This is DD's problem at the minute, remembering 'heels down, soft hands, toes up, straight back' etc, whilst actually doing stuff too!!

We are lucky in that we pay a pittance for lessons (£5), from a friend who is a qualified instructor but who just does favours for friends nowadays. Last night, she was trying to teach DD in a section of DD's pony's field. He was being really good boy but the foal who shares the field just followed him round play biting his arse until we tied him up, then my friends dogs decided to play in that area of the field, joined by one of the farm dogs, all the time DD was riding round and round, trying to remember everything and listen to the instructor at the same time.

However, it WAS good fun, even if the lesson lasted nearly 90 minutes eventually with all the distractions Smile

Will have a rethink for next week re venue!

Good luck anyway Smile

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SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 27/06/2013 15:07

Money needs!
Vicar, our boy is lovely. We think he is part highland, he's a good size and he is happier with adults. He's safe as houses, but has been pony clubbed for so long he just gets needs a nice change. He got a pop in him an he loves hacking. Wink

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needastrongone · 27/06/2013 16:30

Then, if that is the case, that doesn't fall into the category of friendship really I guess. Not mine, anyway Smile

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ThatVikRinA22 · 27/06/2013 17:47

saggy.....i could be interested.....im on nights so i will pm you when im home....

how old is he? im just worried id be too much like a sack of spuds for him....

do you have pics?

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Floralnomad · 27/06/2013 17:55

vicar please ,if you do get your own ,don't keep it on working livery at that yard .

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ThatVikRinA22 · 27/06/2013 18:00

no ive already decided not to do that. If i keep one at that yard it will be on part livery, not working. it will cost more but i hear you all.

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Floralnomad · 27/06/2013 18:04

Well done !

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daisy5569 · 27/06/2013 18:13

vicar glad you've realised that yard is not the right place to keep a horse.

To be completely honest and in my opinion (for what thats worth!) I don't think you should consider getting your own horse until you are completely confident in all paces both schooling and hacking out... some may not agree with me, but horse ownership is a big responsibility and in my opinion novice owners/riders without an adequate support network to help and provide advice are accidents waiting to happen.

Hope you get some lessons else where and really begin to enjoy your riding again, good luck whatever you decide to do Smile

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Pixel · 27/06/2013 18:38

Vicar, stop dithering and just say 'yes please' [stern face].
Believe me, people wouldn't be offering you rides on their ponies if they thought you were too heavy, they don't want to end up with a vet's bill Wink.

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saintlyjimjams · 27/06/2013 18:48

I agree with daisy5569 (as someone who counts herself pretty novice). The BHS Stage 1 and 2 tests are good preparation (and isn't there a horse owners one?). I've been lucky enough to join in Stage 1 and Stage 2 lessons for the apprentices at my yard (although I'm not doing my stages - at the moment at least) & have learned so much, both for riding and horse care. I'd still want someone to be able to check up on me if I had my own horse. I also think unless you're loaded if you have your own horse you tend to cut down on lessons, and I wouldn't want to do that yet, I still have too much to learn. I would honestly just try some different lessons & see how you get on.

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SlowlorisIncognito · 27/06/2013 19:17

I do agree to an extent with Daisy5569 that it might be better to wait a little until you get a horse of your own. If you have never hacked at all, it is better to have some escorted hacks before you go it alone. With a sane and sensible horse, you are more than ready to go on some escorted hacks, and have a canter or two in an enclosed space. Hacking out is different, and horses do tend to be a bit more excitable.

I think your RI is being extremely risk averse though. All horses have the potential to spook, and at your level of experience, if one bucked or something, you might well come off. That is a fact of riding. A safe horse, however, is unlikely to do an extreme spook on the road in a normal situation, and at some point you do have to take the risk. I think you see this woman as more of a friend, and this is clouding your judgement, when thinking of other places you could go and ride.

I think if you try riding in another environment, you will never look back.

Also, an instructor is there for constuctive criticism, and teaching new skills, not damaging your confidence. No-one has a perfect position, especially when starting out- if you are effective, balanced, and not hurting the horse, that is what matters at this stage. Out of interest, what teaching qualifications (if any) does she have?

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