So, where SHOULD you buy horses from?

[JessyLou32]

So those of you who have good amazing safe sane horses, where did you find them?!

I'm also questioning whether to buy at all, or just continue to share and loan.

[Littlebigbum]

Ohh I'm excited for you

[razzdazz]

Avril is a lovely lady, I purchased a horse from her, she is one of very few that is on the horses side!!

[Moby68]

razz .. if it's not impertinent to ask, why didn't you go back to Avril when you wanted another?

[Lovesswimming]

moby (just answereing for Razz in case shes busy)
razz thought she was as they used to be in partnership and the name was the same when she bought her horse, we obviously dont know why there was a split.

[Booboostoo]

Horses react differently to different people and different situations so I don't think there could ever be a dealer who was guarranteed to provide a safe hack no matter what. Some owners seem to me to have unrealistic expectations and very little knowledge...and some sellers are out to make a quick buck no matter whose lives they put at risk! The two make for a very dangerous combination.

I bought a safe HW hack for my OH from a private seller, but I phoned about hundreds of horses and viewed 15 in three months before I found him.

I have bought competition horses from dealers and they have always shown me quality animals - not all suitable to me but you don't know that until you ride a horse.

I don't care who the horse comes from, dealer or private, if I like the look of the advert, I call, if I like what I am told on the phone, I arrange a viewing, if I like what I see/ride, I arrange a vetting, if the horse passes, I buy it!

[razzdazz]

Thanks loveswim. I did indeed contact safecobs again as I believed it was the same one as when I had purchased my previous cob. The web page was totally the same design so why would I have thought otherwise. Obviously, if I had known then what I do now I never would have purchased from them again.

[ThatVikRinA22]

well i have to say its thanks to this site and those like Razz and loveswimming i have learnt a very valuable lesson and i hope you can take some comfort in knowing that you stopped me and hopefully others falling for an unscrupulous dealer in favour of a trainer who sells horses. im truly grateful.

[razzdazz]

That is great to know vicar and even if it is only you who I have helped it has been more than worth it x

[ThatVikRinA22]

its has helped, and im sure many others will have read and just not commented - the FB saga goes on but im trying to stay off....its pissing me right off now.

im really grateful that i found this stuff out now and not later....

and ive found Avrils site which is a plus. i cried reading briars story
i think ive found the place ill buy from in her....

[SingingTunelessly]

Razz, I also thank you for highlighting the pitfalls. I've just had a 5 stage vetting on a horse that is at a dealer local to me after trying him out four times.
He is a sweetheart, great on the road but green in the school ( which I'm fine with) but obviously until I get him home and try him on different lanes - who knows! The dealer I'm buying him off has a good reputation and has told me in no uncertain terms that he doesn't want to lose that hard won reputation so insists on a contract to refund/exchange (if I choose) within 6 months if unsuitable. I'll keep you posted!

vicar. Where is Briar you mention on the MSC website? I can't find the reference? I do love Avril's website. Such a refreshing change but I'm not going to say anymore as don't want thread deleting!

[ThatVikRinA22]

its here singing

its long.
and it will make you cry. it made me cry. twice.
and i then had to read it out to DH.
and cried again.

have a tissue with you when you read it....its got a happy end but oh my goodness....

and it just expresses how wonderful Avril is and how in tune she is to horses. and i think its so lovely and so touching.

[SingingTunelessly]

Thank you vicar. Will pour a another glass of wine, grab some tissues tell DH he is ok to carry on watching SKY Sport rubbish and relish.

[ThatVikRinA22]

it is just so lovely and i dont cry easily - but 2 bits made my eyes leak - you have to read it all - from start to finish.

the bit where the new owner got the animal communicator and the bit where Avril "talks" to her....when she lowers her neck to envelop Avril - after all the shite she had endured she still wanted to give a horsey love to a person who knew what they were doing with her....and i cried.

and it just cements for me that Avril will be where i buy from. She understands horses. im really wanting to go and do the foundation course (clips of which also on the website) and i am in awe.

[Booboostoo]

OK I am going to say this because I think it needs to be said:

If you think a horse communicator is going to solve your horse problems you are ripe pickings for an unscrupulous dealer. There is no such thing as horse telepathy any more than there is human telepathy or chicken telepathy.

I am also sorry but I don't see the huge achievement described at the end. The horse walks out on a short hack and trots back (you should do the opposite when trying a horse, trot away from the yard then walk back to it), it 'accepts' three different riders (why is this such a huge achievement?! Would you pay extra for a horse you can share with your DP or DC on the grounds that the horse tolerates more than one rider? What rubbish! Even Valegro gets ridden by CdJ, CH, the grooms and visitors who want to go on a hack), and then follows a person on foot out again (never accept this when trying out a horse, it's a very easy way to mask a nappy horse).

[Booboostoo]

If you read Briar's story it's fairly clear where it went wrong:

1. they kept her alone - this is enough to wind up most horses
   

1. the first time she hesitated they did nothing (daughter too scared to kick), then the mother gave her a lead teaching her to wait for a human to give a lead. This is how you turn a minor hesitation into a major nap. It was not a poor child's fault but she was clearly far too novicey and scared to own a pony.
   

1. the mum freaked at minor things, e.g. a fresh horse is likely to buck, rear and mess around on the lunge, but that's why you lunge them. You just laugh or growl (whichever works best) and send the horse on until it has expended enough energy. You do NOT freak out (transmiting tension) and put the horse away (without using up the energy).
   

1. they describe a lengthy process of lessons and experts...which is supposed to have taken place over 4 months with 9 weeks off for snow. So this was less than 2 months of trying... this is unrealistic. It takes 6-12 months for a new horse to settle in all situations.
   

1. they expected too much too soon. The mum says that some lessons were good and then some bad...well horses regress, that's life with horses. No one's horse is perfect 100% of the time, much less when you are trying to get used to a new horse and deal with a problem you have already created.
   

1. no where is there mention of a vet. Was this pony's behaviour ever cleared of a physical cause by an experienced equine vet? That would be an knowledgeable horse person's first port of call in trouble.
   

There is no one who can guarrantee you a safe horse while you cry, shake and stress over the very idea of riding it (or even picking its feet out, is that other story serious?). People who have that degree of anxiety around horses owe it to themselves and their horse to go to an RS until they can build their confidence up.

[ThatVikRinA22]

It does mention a vet, they had her back and teeth checked. I do not believe in animal communicators, btw, but I do believe that what the trainer wrote re the training process is the result of a genuine understanding of horses.

[Booboostoo]

I can't find the word 'vet' in the document. People mean all sorts of things when they say they had 'everything done', from their YO saying all is well, to chiros 'putting the pelvis' back in, to animal communicators and related silliness.

[Moby68]

Booboostoo talks a lot of horse sense and clearly has a genuine understanding of horses. We should treat them with compassion yes and affection of course but they need us to be calm and authoritative, a herd leader they can look to for direction and reassurance. They don't need to take on board our anxiety.

[somewhatavoidant]

I got so fed up traipsing up & down the country on wild goose chases I finally put an ad in the national horsey paper,something along the lines of:
Dream Horse Wanted:
7-10yrs
15.2 to 16.2hh
Non TB
Must be easy ride and happy to jump 1m track
Sensible & Safe to hack alone
Preferred eventing experience
(Lots of other points but can't remember now!)

I had every codger in the country ringing with 3yr old unbroken TBs but I had a long list of questions prepared and filled a form for each call. Got 2 ideal sounding horses but way too expensive (15k) & then finally the call came with a guy saying "I have the horse!" Went down the following day and rode out with the guy on his other horse. The minute I sat up it just felt right somehow. He gave me a weeks trial and even lent me his trailer!! (Must have an honest face!) The horse has been my dream horse in every way except for being lazy dressage wise but I've had so much fun over the last 2 years.

Have made 2 mistakes horse wise where having overruled my first instinct about the horses, turns out I should have listened! Vital to know when to sell on even at a loss & move on. It happens all the time and better to swallow one's pride than get hurt me thinks.

[Auntmaud]

Brilliant post booboo, totally agree.

vicar you need to see lot sof horses with an experienced person, not set your heart on one dealer who is doing a pretty good PR job on herself.

[lovebeansontoast]

I agree too booboo, and with what AuntMaud says.

vicar, read my post on the "Dealers" thread.

It's up to you, it will be your horse. My advice is as follows:

1. as AuntMaud says, take someone experienced with you.
   
   
2. Write down a list of searching questions, and don't assume all the answers you are given are true, my lovely boy was advertised as "ride and drive" and that he had "jumped at Towerlands". I know now neither are true. Just as well i don't drive and wasn't looking for a jumper!
   
   
3. make sure you do everything with the horse you will want to do at home, and that includes riding out on your own, catching him, traffic, everything. Don't assume or believe anything you haven't seen with your own eyes.
   
   
4. insist on a 5 star vetting. Expensive, but cheap in the big scheme of things. Horses are expensive
   
   
5. ask for a trial period. You might not get it, but it's worth an ask. I bought my current horse subject to vetting and got two weeks trial after which I could get my money back if I wasn't 100% happy. I had created a mini contract to say what I wanted. The dealer signed it when I gave him my non refundable deposit. I gave him a post dated cheque for the rest which he held for two weeks, then presented to the bank after I had I rung him to say all was well.
   
   They did tell me a lot of rubbish about my horse, such as his owners were getting divorced (they weren't, but it's a good easy reason for selling a horse - not the horse's fault!), fantastic in traffic (he isn't perfect in heavy traffic, but good enough for me) but what they couldn't disguise was his wonderful temperament, great conformation and way of going. He did turn out to be two years older than they said, but that was nothing in the scheme of things. i got, and still have, a lovely horse.
   
   Very best of luck

[somewhatavoidant]

I got so fed up traipsing up & down the country on wild goose chases I finally put an ad in the national horsey paper,something along the lines of:
Dream Horse Wanted:
7-10yrs
15.2 to 16.2hh
Non TB
Must be easy ride and happy to jump 1m track
Sensible & Safe to hack alone
Preferred eventing experience
(Lots of other points but can't remember now!)

I had every codger in the country ringing with 3yr old unbroken TBs but I had a long list of questions prepared and filled a form for each call. Got 2 ideal sounding horses but way too expensive (15k) & then finally the call came with a guy saying "I have the horse!" Went down the following day and rode out with the guy on his other horse. The minute I sat up it just felt right somehow. He gave me a weeks trial and even lent me his trailer!! (Must have an honest face!) The horse has been my dream horse in every way except for being lazy dressage wise but I've had so much fun over the last 2 years.

Have made 2 mistakes horse wise where having overruled my first instinct about the horses, turns out I should have listened! Vital to know when to sell on even at a loss & move on. It happens all the time and better to swallow one's pride than get hurt me thinks.

[ThatVikRinA22]

i think ive already said i will be taking RI with me, and she trusts nobody ever - she said today unless i can take a horse on trial then believe nothing i am told.

i think i will be ok, and im not looking yet anyway (far too early in the great scheme of things and i dont know enough)

thanks for the advice and i will be vigilant, and if im not, my RI will be.

[Floralnomad]

Well I've never sold a horse because I keep mine until they die but if I were selling one there is no way I'd let it go out for a trial , wouldn't care how many times people came to look but it wouldn't be leaving my yard . Maybe I'm odd but its like buying anything else , you don't go to a garage and say you'll take the car away for a week and then let them know.

[50BalesOfHay]

Agree about the trial, I wouldn't do it. We've got one out on loan with view to buy, but only because it's an exceptional home where she's adding huge value to the horse, and we visit monthly.