Train in England, teach in Scotland

[Penguin7208]

Hello,

I'll get straight to the point. If someone were to complete their PGCE in England, would they subsequently be able to apply to the teaching council in Scotland and become a teacher there, without completing any of their early careers framework in England?

There are a few potential issues I also would like clarification on:

1. The time frame. You cannot apply to the council until you have finished the training course, which for most unis in England will be in June, however, schools start in August in Scotland, whilst the council can take up to 5 months to look at your application. Would this mean if someone did move to Scotland, they wouldn't be able to be a teacher until this came through? Would they be able to start at their first school in January, which would likely be enough time?
2. The age range. Many PGCE courses in England are 11-16, but Scottish schools are all up to 18 as far as I can tell. Would this be an issue?

And before you ask, the reason why this person is training in England is because they can get a lot more money to train in England than in Scotland.

[nothatsallwrong]

No. If you haven't completed the ECT years in England you'll need to start as a flexi route probationer, which is a whole lot of work and hassle. You have to be registered with the GTCS which will take a significant amount of time.

There are also very few jobs available.

If you want to teach in Scotland, you're much better off doing the PGDE, probation and putting your head down to get a job where you're known and have trained.

Wages are so much higher in Scotland that it would be even after a few years.

[fuckweasel]

I trained in England and moved to Scotland after several years teaching in England. For secondary, you need to register in one (or more) of the approved subjects and this depends on achieving a certain number of credits in that subject in your degree (regardless of your PGCE subject). I couldn't register in the subject I had taught at A level for a number of years due to my degree content.

Unless it's changed, I don't think an 11-16 PGCE is recognised. My PGCE was 11-18, but I had a hell of a time getting paperwork to prove this (it's not stated on my certificate, only 'secondary').

As the previous poster said, the flexible probationer route is not great; I mentored a teacher doing this and never again! You cannot teach until registered with the GTCS (I have known an exception to this but in very specific circumstances, and it required a registered teacher to be in the room at all times).

[Penguin7208]

That is what I thought about the GTCS so not a surprise.

They've done a maths degree and would have a maths pgce. The issue is that in our area, none of the courses are 11-18, but most come with some experience in sixth form. Is this genuinely a big issue?

The flexi route probationer being a lot of work shouldn't be an issue and is something they would expect with it anyway.

The bursary/scholarship available in England is what is enabling them to be able to afford to teach with all the costs rent, travel etc. The wages eventually being higher in Scotland doesn't help.

[Penguin7208]

The GTCS website really doesn't help with any of this. It is so vague. It is like "these are our requirements but if you don't meet them you might still be able to get a conditional assessment thing". How is anyone meant to plan anything here?

Just find the England website's so much easier to understand. Thank you for anyone who is able to help with this!

[fuckweasel]

https://www.gtcs.org.uk/registration/apply-as-a-teacher/qualified-outside-scotland-teacher/eligibility-of-teachers-qualified-outside-scotland/

Here it states the criteria of teaching qualifications from outside Scotland and 'should relate to either the primary (3-12) or secondary (12-18) age range'.

It's worth a call to the GTCS. I managed to connect with someone super helpful as my registration was far from straightforward. I do remember them being quite emphatic that my PGCE must state 11-18.

[Penguin7208]

Thank you! Not being able to isn't the end of the world or anything. They were just interested in their options for the future.

I do just wonder why the different countries in the UK can't better align their teaching training to make the whole thing easier for everyone. Yes, I know the education systems are different but I'm sure there must be a solution better than this.

[Catifly]

@Penguin7208

Thank you! Not being able to isn't the end of the world or anything. They were just interested in their options for the future.

I do just wonder why the different countries in the UK can't better align their teaching training to make the whole thing easier for everyone. Yes, I know the education systems are different but I'm sure there must be a solution better than this.

I left Scotland to train in England, despite the high tuition fees. At the time, a Scottish degree let you teach in England but not vice versa. The reason I left is because the curriculum is completely different. Your first year teaching is very very difficult; it would be much more difficult if you'd trained in a different system. I don't know what it's like for maths, but there are also lots of teachers on TikTok in Scotland lamenting the lack of permanent positions. Certainly in the past, the way of applying to a council not a school sounded very unappealing to me. Do they definitely want to teach in Scotland?

[Penguin7208]

Thank you! It was a possibility but not a certain thing or anything.

It does seem a complaint I have seen quite a lot about a lack of permanent positions. I doubt maths will be as bad, but it definitely seems like getting a permanent role in England should be easier.

[strawbsandfrogs]

@fuckweasel apologies, I know this is an old thread but wondered if you could answer a quick question. I'm in similar situation, have been teacher in England for 6 years. When you moved did your salary remain at equivalent point on the pay scale eg. If you were on M6 in England did you go to point 5 which is equivalent in Scotland? Or did you have to start at the beginning again in Scotland? In process of applying for jobs/doing interviews in Scotland but don't yet have an answer from anyone on what salary I would start on. Any help greatly appreciated!

[fuckweasel]

Hi. I was on UPS2 when I left England and started on the highest mainscale point in Scotland (after at first receiving a probationer contract with associated salary in error!) Worth noting that the Scottish equivalent salary to M6 is considerably better by about £7000.

[strawbsandfrogs]

@fuckweasel thanks so much for replying! That's super helpful to know! I'm on M6 in England and want to start on main scale 5 in Scotland just wanted some reassurance this is doable as really don't want to go back to beginning again (even if the salaries in Scotland are higher!) thanks again