So then, once we’ve identified all these mental health problems

[fedup21]

In our classes, what are the government proposing that we do next...?!

[OhTheRoses]

I had a teenager with mh problems. It was very important to her that there was a divide between school and healthcare. It is also essential in the context of clinical confidentiality. I don't go into work and talk about my prolapse, etc, why should a child have declare clinical issues relating to theor brain to their teachers? Sick notes I get, full disclosures I don't. Teachers are paid to teach doctors and nurses to heal. Sometimes theor needs to be an overlap but not in relation to everything in the body and soul.

[hen10]

Not this AGAIN. We don't training. We need a referral number that has an actual resourced organisation at the end of the line. Actually, just an address would do and I'll drive the referrals round there myself.

[noblegiraffe]

People can’t resist sticking the boot into teachers, can they?

[Kazzyhoward]

It would be a good start if teachers didn't make things worse for the pupils. When I was at school, I was very shy and anxious, yet the teachers seemed to think they could "cure" me by forever making me do things outside my comfort zone, such as class presentations, etc., but it just made things worse and I started bunking off to avoid situations like that. A little compassion/understanding from the teacher would have gone a long way.

It's not always all about money, referrals, etc. Sometimes it's just about a little humanity from the teacher in the first place.

[TigerMummy1]

We already spot all the mental health problems! There's just no support for them. At my school (all through trust, 3-18 across 3 adjacent sites, infants, juniors and senior) we are lucky enough to have a full time school nurse, and then I'm the senior pastoral person so a third of my timetable is given over to pupil wellbeing. That means picking up the pieces where CAMHS don't want to know. I am pretty much as trained as teachers get in mental health but I am not a counsellor or psychologist. I can sit and be with pupils in bereavement, mental health crises, normal adolescent difficulties - but I'm increasingly being asked to take on the role of regular counselling for pupils who have no other support. No matter how much I repeat "i am not a counsellor" there just isn't any other help out there. I am out of my depth but I know that I'm vastly more trained and experienced in this area than most teachers and I have timetable time (though not enough). It's like giving constant emotional CPR, they need a counsellor or psychologist to actually provide sustainable longterm help, and the longer they are having to make do with my second rate emotional CPR, the further into their illness they get.

[fedup21]

in the area where I work, CAMHS have significantly increased the threshold for even seeing a young person to assess them. When they receive a referral, most of the time their response is a letter suggesting the young person asks the school for counselling.

Yep-we get this loads. They have one appointment, are led to believe they are waiting for another to come through but then Camhs send the parent a letter in the post saying that the school counsellor or nurse will need to take over.

Like we have trained medical mental health workers in a little office just waiting!

[CaptainMyCaptain]

It’s a bit like when they said that early years teachers had to spot SEND sooner. So I dutifully looked at my nursery intake and highlighted emerging and definite SEND needs amongst them. But there was no money or support or services to address these.
Exactly. They are 'only playing' anyway so I was expected to cope, something might start to be done in KS2 when the child has become disengaged and disruptive but, by then, it was too late. That's if the parents will accept there is a problem at all.

[ASauvignonADay]

In my LA area, CAMHS have pushed support for mild to moderate MH problems down to schools.
Ditto social care too. We now do part of their job and part of CAMHS job whilst we've already cut staff and are under more pressure to improve behaviour, attendance and results. It's bloody impossible.

[PinguDance]

I work in a secondary school that seems to be doing alright in terms of finances and access to services - I’m a TA and work a lot with kids I know have Camhs and /or social services involvement, counselling etc - no one tells me anything! So even in a situation where I have made a referral, see a kid for about 12 hours a week, KNOW there is a mental health issue and would be in a position to support with strategies or reinforce positive language or whatever would actually be helpful I get no guidance on this. I don’t want all the gory details but if there is actually something I could do you’d think I might get told what. Even if it’s just ‘go easy on Simon today something’s happened’, it’s mortifying when you pull a kid up on ‘wheres your tie’ or whatever, conflab ensues and then another kids tells you his brother went to prison the day before (fictional example but you get my drift).
So in my experience, you spot an issue and it enters a mysterious and impenetrably confidential bubble that almost works against you. Eating disorders for example, i can report it but do I mention food to the child in question, do I avoid it and check work for potentially difficult topics etc?

[redpinkgreenyellow]

When not why!

[redpinkgreenyellow]

It’s a bit like when they said that early years teachers had to spot SEND sooner. So I dutifully looked at my nursery intake and highlighted emerging and definite SEND needs amongst them. But there was no money or support or services to address these.

I can tell you which of my current KS2 class have mental health needs but CAMHS have discharged each and every one of them after a telephone consultation with one of their parents.

Our TA levels are the absolute minimum so there are no additional adults there to provide even gentle emotional support on a day to day basis never mind any sort of counselling or therapy. We have a TA trainee in various therapies but she has been reallocated to work 1:1 with a child with an EHCP when the school couldn’t afford to employ an additional TA for that role.

Don’t give us just ‘training’. Treat us as professionals and show us the money. Mental Health and SEND need significant investment. ALL pupils will benefit from schools being able to access services for children with MH and/or SEND needs. Why a teacher and/or asks for help with a pupils needs then it should be given!

[TheFirstOHN]

In the area where I work, CAMHS have significantly increased the threshold for even seeing a young person to assess them. When they receive a referral, most of the time their response is a letter suggesting the young person asks the school for counselling. Our area does have counsellors who do Tier 1 outreach in schools. The demand far exceeds the supply, and they will refuse a referral if they feel the pupil's needs are beyond Tier 1 support.

A young person who three years ago would have been assessed by a psychiatrist and received CBT (or whatever other support was needed), this year would not even reach the threshold for assessment.

Three years ago, a young person presenting at A&E at our local hospital with suicidal ideation and a concrete plan would be seen by the child & adolescent crisis team. In my recent experience, a young person in that position this year is not automatically assessed by the crisis team unless it's the second or subsequent time they have presented.

It's all very well to train school staff to be more aware of mental health needs, but the NHS isn't even able to assess and treat all the young people with mental health issues that have already been identified.

[OhTheRoses]

I agree. What is the point of training teachers to pick up the signs when the services to deal with the underlying mh issues don't exist.

Thank you for the thread. I shall write to my MP, again, tomorrow (tbf when dd was ill, he did intervene and switch on some services for her).

I shall also attend the CCG Board meeting next week as I shall be on A/L. I shall ask again what they as commissioners are doing to improve services and again ask why 20% to 25% (under 18s) of the population get a woeful 6% of the overall and already inadequate MH budget.

Again I shall note that I expect teachers/schools to educate and HCPs/Trusts to heal.

Again I shall ask them to estimate the cost in future taxes of embedded and intractible MH issues whereby 14-18s were denied early interventions. This compounded by parents (mostly mothers) shouldering the care burden, suffering stress and PTSD and possibly losing their jobs.

My dd got the help she needed and has recovered, been diagnosed and learnt to manage her mh. The state had nothing to do with it. She was very very lucky. I had BUPA and £6000 to spend.

It is a disgrace and I don't believe it's all about lack of resources. Much of it is about mismanagement of resources and poorly trained MH CAMHS nurses who are very out of date. The service needs fewer nurses and sw's imo and twice as many psychiatrists.

[MsAwesomeDragon]

I have identified kids with mental health issues in my classes in the past. There are no resources to deal with them.

Teachers really, really don't want to have mental health added to our list of responsibilities. I'm happy to pass on concerns to appropriate people, but they then need to diagnose and treat the issue. I don't have that expertise, and I would need a lot more than a couple of evenings of training to become an expert.

[grafittiartist]

First of all- we already do.
Second - the kids would needless mental health support if we allowed them to grow and flourish in a wide curriculum.
It's all set up for stress at the moment.

[LucidDream]

My DD has an EHCP which has her mental health difficulties on there (amongst her other disabilities). She still has to sit on the 2 year CAMHS waiting list like every fucker else.

School can't do much for her MH difficulties apart from be understanding (which they are), and I wouldn't expect them to.

Her school also has a school mental health practitioner. This person offers 3 hours support to the school A MONTH. From what I can tell this involves generic drop in sessions for parents around anxiety, stress, exam pressure. No real life support for the actual pupils.

[thebookeatinggirl]

In my LEA the Primary learning mentors (who were trained in MH issues and supported many children in difficult circumstances and with issues like anxiety, trauma, attachment disorders and low self-esteem) have all just been made redundant.

Most services that the SENCO could signpost parents to have been closed.

CAMHS referrals have such high thresholds and waiting lists that very very few children can be supported by them.

The last 3 parents who came to me asking for help, and who I suggested talk to their GPs came back to me and said the GP had told them they had no services to refer them to, and they should go through the school, as we are the ones to signpost.

I would love more training in spotting MH issues, but as a small primary school with limited additional adults and nowhere to refer children to, I just feel despair.

[WhyNotMe40]

This teacher definitely agrees!

[CaptainMyCaptain]

With the greatest respect to teachers, I would like my DCs health and any MH issues to be dealt with by trained and qualified health professionals.
I think teachers would agree with you.

[BackInTime]

With the greatest respect to teachers, I would like my DCs health and any MH issues to be dealt with by trained and qualified health professionals.

[Neolara]

Op - I think you're meant to wave your magic wand and instantly cure them of their difficulties.

[bananasonfire]

'In my LA area, CAMHS have pushed support for mild to moderate MH problems down to schools.'

This is exactly what is happening - push the responsibility onto teachers. A few INSETS and a bit of online training is not going to equip teachers to spot and cater for mental health difficulties. This policy could do more harm than good.

[FamilyOfAliens]

In my LA area, CAMHS have pushed support for mild to moderate MH problems down to schools.

Then when the problem gets too big or complex for us to deal with with our limited expertise and resources, all CAMHS are offering is a place on a two-year waiting list.

[Tableclothing]

www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/news/could-you-be-education-mental-health-practitioner

Noble I wondered if Crafty was referring to EMHPs (see link).

But there's about 100 of them total and I've heard bad things about the training, so can't imagine they'll be making much of a dent.

[Tableclothing]

I had lots of ideas for cogent and stimulating contributions to this thread, but then I saw that Theresa May said "Tackling this burning injustice has always been a personal priority for me," and I damaged myself with bitter laughing.

Fwiw the "new idea" appears to be tacking an extra PowerPoint on to new teacher training, not anything that will happen to teachers currently working.