Term time holidays for staff

[Bestseller]

In my previous schools a rare odd day off might be agreed for a wedding or say a special birthday weekend.

At this school we seem to be having a rash of requests for hen dos, overseas that require 2/3 days off.

In the past they seem to have agreed them as the staff member has no control over the date.

What happens at your school?

[Malbecfan]

*5 days. Shouldn't drink gin/wine then post...

[Malbecfan]

As a p/t teacher, I was asked if I fancied travelling half way round the world for days to attend & perform at a cultural event with a local group. Obviously I said I'd ask my newish Head but it was unlikely I'd be able to go. To my surprise, he said yes, his exact words being "you do more than enough, go for it and we'll sort it". It was mid/late September and because of my timetable, I would only miss 2 working days. My line manager owed me some cover, so it cost the school one cover lesson.

In return, I attended & performed at an amazing cultural event last year. I regaled everyone with tales about another culture. The Head was particularly impressed that we drank a bar dry . I was rather jet-lagged when I came back but managed ok. My tutor group thought it was brilliant. The local group had been on national TV the year before so there was a good angle for the local papers to take. Win-win!

[CraftyGin]

Teacher sickness is obviously paid (and claimed for). Family funerals are also granted without pay being docked.

Anything else should be unpaid and at the discretion of the school.

A special school, with high adult to child ratio, presumably has that ratio because most children have EHCPs. They are entitled to this support, so it’s not an option to allow staff leave and expect support staff to be spread more thinly.

[EnormousDormouse]

It'd be different for full time staff, but as a job share I used to take time off for festivals, and in return my job share partner would get to go to sports days, go Christmas shopping and have long weekends. The head had the great view that as long as one of us was there she was happy; and she recognised that this flexibility made us very happy.

[Aragog]

Its probably depends on your current staff team too. We are a relatively small staff team (about 25 teaching staff, mostly FT, some PT, mix of teachers/TAs/HLTAs) No one in our current team would be looking to take advantage so our HT more flexible approach works well. If you have some staff who would be wanting time regularly I can see why you'd have to be more rigid.

[Bestseller]

Yes I think that's a good point stone's and sticks.

I agree wholeheartedly with PPs that work life balance, some give and take etc is important for everyone and beneficial to the school overall but I find that the "good" staff would prefer things to be a bit tighter.

It's never the fully committed, excellent teachers who "need" time off for anniversaries and hen dos and if granted, then the other staff have to cover them.

[stonesandsticks]

I'm a governor at a school which has recently had an almost complete change of SLT and Governing Body members. Under the old leadership, all requests for time off during term time were dealt with by the Head alone and she never said no. As a result, we found it had become accepted that staff members could arrange their own weddings for a week away during term time, take several days off to attend family weddings (apparently so that they didn't have to rush to get there, and could enjoy the full experience), take time off for 'big' birthdays for themselves,partners, parents etc, take summer holidays leaving on the last day of term etc etc etc

We were amazed at how much this was costing in supply cover, not to mention the disruption for the children.

Now there is a policy that funerals of family members/graduations for self or close family can be approved at the Head's discretion but other requests for time off need to be put in writing to the Governors, and need to explain why the time off is in 'exceptional circumstances' (so similar for time off for children). We have had far fewer requests and almost all have been genuinely exceptional.

As a PP has said, we did have a couple of requests from teaching assistants for several days for weddings in the UK. When they were offered unpaid time off (so there was no cost to school for extra hours of another member of staff) amazingly they could do the journey in a shorter time.

We did initially get push back on the change in policy from some, but actually the most dedicated staff responded positively as I suspect they were also getting irritated at working harder to cover for colleagues who were taking the piss.

[Aragog]

There has to be goodwill shown SOMEWHERE to make up the balance of work your staff (if it's anything like my school) undertake that is far from reasonable every day.

I agree.

Many teaching and classroom staff give over and above every day, woking well beyond their timetabled hours. I am paid 8:30am to 3:30pm, with 45 min unpaid for lunch/morning break per day. I always do a minimum of 1-2 hours extra unpaid each day, often work weekends and in holidays - not paid for this time. I use my own money to pay for things for school regularly, and the amount of emotional energy given to my job is immense.

The list of 'extras' goes on. Just like for pretty much every other teacher and TA in my experience.

If you want staff who do all this happily and without question (at least most of the time) then you need to build some 'give' on the management side of things too.

Because if you get too strict and miserly with rules then you may end up with staff who decide to rigidly stick to their rules too. And we all know that schools couldn't actually function if they did this.

As said already - I work for management who are lovely and where she can, she grants people time off, albeit unpaid for some situations. As a result we have a fantastic team spirit, with high morale and everyone happily giving their extra bit.

[Thisreallyisafarce]

There has to be goodwill shown SOMEWHERE to make up the balance of work your staff (if it's anything like my school) undertake that is far from reasonable every day. I'm talking about people working over holidays, staying when a meeting runs over, picking up a class when the teacher is suddenly taken ill, sitting with a child to do some extra work at lunch. If you take the approach of only granting what the Book says you have to, the staff will start doing the same. It sounds like you need to tighten up a bit, but turning down requests for funerals doesn't sound right to me.

[BackforGood]

Juliette - school staff don't have 'Annual Leave' days they can use though - all Annual Leave can only be taken in the holidays, so it isn't an option to 'book a day off'. That's why it can be an issue.

[PinguDance]

I know what you mean noble! I really think a close family members wedding should merit a day off to avoid ppl doing that - the thing is that obv if you ask for a day off and are refused then it does look very suspicious if you call in sick the same day, so I think ppl just don’t ask to avoid being caught out. The interview thing I think is risky though - what if they ask for some evidence and you’re stuck? I haven’t tried it tho I have been tempted on one occasion.

[noblegiraffe]

Calling in sick and going to a wedding would be gross misconduct though, so risky!

[PinguDance]

I can’t imagine asking for a day off in a school for a hen do - no one would even try in my school, even unpaid it would be rejected. Although as above, there’s nothing to stop ppl calling in sick so I’m not sure how good this v.strict policy is. The other ruse is pretending you have an interview. It must be difficult get the balance of flexibility vs sensible approach though tbf.

[PinguDance]

In my school ppl have been refused time off for siblings weekday weddings - you can imagine how great that is for morale. The unofficial policy is now that you tell your line manager and phone in sick - at least in a couple of departments. Your list seems reasonable to me - it is a PITA not to be able to take the odd day off in term time but I wouldn’t expect any time that off for a marathon or a cruise to be paid.

[JulietteGrimm]

I agree with most of your list. Don't agree about funerals tho - while many employers have "immediate family only" rules, the vast majority of employers would also allow an employee to use annual leave at short notice for any other funerals.

Also, wrt compassionate leave - surely it's paid because the person in need of it isn't mentally well enough to be in a classroom (usually due to grief) so would otherwise just be off sick.

[BackforGood]

We're not a mainstream school so have high staff to pupil ratio which means there is some leeway to allow leave

Er, when I worked in Special school, the ratio of adults: pupils was higher because the needs of the dc dictated that the higher ratio was needed, not so staff could go off on their jollies.

The one thing I think the 'rules' sometimes get wrong is defining what relationship you are to the deceased person as to if you can go to the funeral or not. To my mind, if you feel you need to be there, then you need to be there - you can be closer to a friend than one of the people you are allowed time off for. So I'd welcome the fact that you are being more generous than you need be over that, but your staff hav presumably been allowed to take the mick for so long, they see that as 'normal'.

[husbandbloodyhusband]

I think it depends on the part of the country you're in- the harder it is to recruit quality staff, the more likely you are to allow flexibility.
I say this as a HT who has worked in places at both ends of the recruitment spectrum

[Teacherlikemisstrunchball]

When I worked in a boarding school that had Saturday school you were always allowed time off for weddings without question (paid) as they understood that most weddings are on Saturdays! I was also allowed to leave at lunchtime on the Friday when I was bridesmaid for my sister on the Saturday and things like that. Often we would just cover in dept and just let line manager know. When I was part time in my next job I was allowed to swap one of my days to attend a wedding, and also swapped a day to attend a funeral of a family friend. In my current job I’ve attended two funerals which have both been paid and neither were family. Luckily these were relatively local and I didn’t require a full day off for either. I was also able to swap lessons around so needed next to no cover and did lots of organising to minimise disruption. It’s give and take. I would never ask for time off for a hen do! Takes the piss when we get soooo much holiday.

[MaisyPops]

Starlight21
I've wondered that. I'm not involved with those decisions but have had to request compassionate leave once. It didn't bother me one not that part was paid and part wasn't.
Does the lack of pay suddenly mean the day off wasn't actually required? Some people I think are out for what they can get.

[Starlight21]

As SLT it always amazes me when requests go in that are important and a must, but as soon as I grant them but I accordance with policy without pay I get told they no longer need it off? Interesting

[Aragog]

I think if there's leeway I'd let them have days off a wedding, regardless of relationship. Unpaid. It's not like they have any say over the date and it's sad to miss out on a good friends wedding.

But I've always, bar one, had headteachers who really value family and friends and a good home/work life balance. My current one is fabulous over things like this. As a result she has an excellent working relationship with staff, people don't take the meds and everyone gives their best and goes out of their way to help one another out. Because she's really fair and flexible with staff, staff are more willing to do things at late notice or change if plan for the school with no fuss. Best staff team I've ever worked with and it comes from the top.

[echt]

Another country, but in Victoria, teachers have 5 annual days of sick we can claim without certifications and my impression is that people make sure they use it.

One of the glories of public service here is that after 10 years, you accrue 495 hours of long service leave ( paid) and 247 hours each subsequent five years, You can access it at 7 years, and take it at half-pay. It's accrued by hours so covers the working day, not the weekend.

What it amounts to is a shitload of paid time off in term-time. It's bloody fab and means you can take longer holidays by tacking week before or after a holiday. Naturally there's an orderly queue and you have to put in a bid in good time.

[Bestseller]

We use the LA policy Noble which has almost every absence request listed as discretionary.

HR advice is not to have a specific policy for each kind of absence as people tend to see that as an entitlement. E. G if you "allow" three days per term for child illness (some) people will always take their three days.

No they haven't been refused. They are recent or current requests where I've said "WTF? " and the rest of SLT think I have no heart/management skills. I. E. Good management is happy staff

[noblegiraffe]

So these things have been refused and people are pissed off? Were they approved in the past?

It sounds like a clear policy is needed, then people wouldn’t put in ridiculous requests and be upset when they’re not granted.

[Bestseller]

It's only the kind of funerals where other schools would say no. The kind where you'd like to go to pay your respects rather than because you're grief stricken. Many employers have rules about funerals only for imeadiate family and we'd give those without question.