PGCE etc 2018 applications anyone?

[QuantumPixies]

Anyone else applying this time around? My UCAS form is not far off going in and I’ve got a sudden panic that I’m already late applying and I won’t get any offers or interviews.

It would be great to chat with other people applying this year and share our triumphs and woes!

[PersianCatLady]

but so many schools are dropping the subject, and won't you have to pay the bursary back if you can't get a job?
Actually lots of schools are dropping their ICT GCSEs and A-Levels and are taking up the new Computer Science GCSEs and A-Levels.

Also you don't have to pay back the bursary if you can't get a job or even if you decide at the end of the PGCE that you don't want to be a teacher any more.

Greenshoots1
Do you work in education at all??

Where did you get your information from that you posted in your post of 22:34??

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Computer science is also now compulsory to the end of KS3 as well, I thought?

[QuantumPixies]

I’d toyally forgotten about this thread-nice to see it pop up on active.

My application is still not in but not panicking any more after a conversation with some lovely admissions tutors. I rescheduled my skills tests for late January and I’ll defibitely be in by then. I’m hoping to get sponsored by my school and nailing down whether there’s budget for it is proving tricky so I’m stuck a bit waiting for a decision. It looks like interviews are likely to come very quickly after the form goes in so it’s good to have the Christmas break to prepare.

[crazycatgal]

@PersianCatLady It's the unpaid schools direct one that I've applied for (same funding as university led) unfortunately, not the salaried one.

[crazycatgal]

@coconutnut You should be told which subject and year you will be doing your mini teach with - have a look at some revision books aimed at that year for ideas.

[QuantumPixies]

There hardly seem any schools direct salaried primary places any more. I’m funding through loans again (if school can’t sponsor me). It’ll be worth it for the salary bump from my pathetic TA wage.

[Greenshoots1]

Do you work in education at all??

yes, and my school closed its computer science department due to being unable to find any computer science teachers. It won't reopen now, we have moved on.

And we do have teachers stuck in the most awful positions and having to serve two years, or pay back their training costs. I'm not sure what scheme they were on though.

You don't have to worry about not getting in, virtually no one is turned down. There is a massive short fall across the board. Its only PE, I think that doesn't have a shortfall in the uk

but I still wouldn't advise anyone to do it.

[crazycatgal]

@Greenshoots1 Your comment really isn't helpful on this thread. I know what teaching is like at the moment - I have made an informed decision to go into it.

[Greenshoots1]

It’ll be worth it for the salary bump from my pathetic TA wage. you are aware that teachers frequently take home less per hour than TAs? I've been both in the last few years, and got more per hour as a TA, due to the hours a teacher works being well over double what a TA works, and in many cases more than triple what a TA works, taken over the year.

[MaisyPops]

Careful on the SCITT comments.
There's often a wide area for placements and you aren't guaranteed one on your ttain route (unless you have a particular school who are paying you through). We have only just got information from the training provisers we work with for January placements.
Having mentored for GTP/SCITT and PGCE they all involve 2nd placements. The 2nd placement is shorter than the main one but there's still 2.
Even teachfirst (who are paid staff) have to experience another setting - at least they did 3 years ago when we had one for a few weeks.

Good luck with the applications (and i really hope i don't sound negative. Just want to clarify in case others read this)

[QuantumPixies]

Yes green, having worked full time in a school for quite a long one now, I am aware what the job entails. My husband is also a teacher.

I’m not sure what you think you can add to this thread.

[Greenshoots1]

I’m not sure what you think you can add to this thread. trying to save you from becoming one of the huge and growing mass of NQTs crying " why didn't I listen to the warnings"... but what can you do? People ignore all warnings and seem to think they are somehow different. You know most teachers don't make it to 5 years, and that figure is kept artificially high by the poor sods who are desperate to get out, but are tied in by clauses saying they would have to repay their training costs, or would lose their residency if they leave teaching.

[PersianCatLady]

Your school closing its computer science department does not mean that lots of schools are dropping computer science as a subject.

It is a good job that I have done my research because otherwise I might have believed your ridiculous comment.

It sounds as if the school you are if is not a very school at all, dropping computer science as a subject when it is part of the National Curriculum and I certainly wouldn't want my kids to go to a school like this.

You also sound very bitter about teaching but it doesn't follow that it will be the same for everyone.

My first choice for my PGCE is the school that I went to myself and my son left there in July, the school has been most accommodating allowing me to spend time in the Computing Department and making time for me to speak to this year's SCITT trainees in private away from the school staff so that we could talk honestly.

Computer science as a subject is going throughout changes at the moment and it will make it far more engaging both to teach and for the students to learn.

By all means, please share your experiences in this thread as it is good to get a variety of opinions but please don't post supposedly factual statements when they are nothing more than the situation at just one school.

[PersianCatLady]

Greenshoots1
Please stop posting nonsense.

You DO NOT have to pay the bursary back even if you leave after the PGCE and this gas been the case since at least 2011 (I know this for a fact) but I am almost certain that it has always been the case (I cannot verify this right now so I won't say it is a fact)

Either these teachers at your school on 2 year courses that they can't quit as they would have to pay their bursaries are liars, you are a liar or you have got very confused.

I like to think it is the latter.

[PersianCatLady]

I am going to post this in capitals just in case any one hasn't understood it yet

EVEN IF YOU DECIDE NOT TO GO INTO TEACHING AFTER YOUR PGCE YOU DO NOT HAVE TO REPAY THE BURSARY, EVER, BEVER EVER.

No-one is forced to teach for two years because they got a bursary and can't afford to repay it.

If you do not believe me a simple Google search will verify this.

Greenshoots1
I have not chosen to ignore the warnings about going into teaching as such,.

I have found that a lot of people had other major reasons why teaching didn't work out for them, such as having young children at home or personality clashes with staff.

I know that it might not work out for me but I want to give it a go and I will put every last thing I have into making myself the best teacher that I can be.

If it doesn't work out and I cannot carry on then I will revise my plans.

I do not think that I am different yo every body else with respect to teaching but I certainly am different to you in that I have a positive attitude and I want to succeed.

You sound like the most negative person in Earth and it really is sad that you want to put that negativity onto the posters in this thread who are all really looking forward to becoming amazing teachers.

Maybe you are jealous because between us we have the positivity to excel and you obviously didn't.

Maybe you should start looking for a new job?

[thecatfromjapan]

I'm working as a supply teacher at the moment. I earn more in a day than in a week as a TA.

TA pay is a scandal. I know that teachers' pay is not good enough for the hours but it is a real wage that you can live on. TA pay isn't.

There's a huge issue about this. It's part of the scandal of budget cuts leading to schools increasingly using TAs to cover classes when teachers are absent. Of course they do. The money they save is amazing - at a huge cost to the poor sods who are a. taking the classes for TA pay and b. working unpaid to do the planning for those classes on top of their other workload.

We should have campaigned, together, for higher wages for everyone who works in schools.

Anyway, rant aside, there are really good reasons for anyone working as a TA to take the step up to getting a PGCE. Even if you decide, a few years down the line, to go back to working as a TA.

And, no, you don't have to pay the bursary back. I know people who quite during the PGCE - they don't have to pay the bursary back.

And Computer Science is certainly on the National Curriculum for Primary. I know that some schools have it on the timetable but don't teach it, it's not a SAT subject and schools chasing SAT results with a grim determination often over-focus on the core, but it's pretty much a hallmark of a truly good school to not do that and to teach ICT.

Computer Science is clearly a necessary subject now. To claim anything other than that is, frankly, bonkers.

And I really wish MN would stop talking women out of taking a PGCE. Yes, we know how very far from ideal the situation is. However, there is something slightly irresponsible about this destruction of women's aspirations. I get why women working in a profession that consistently undermines and devalues their work want to warn others about that. However, there is something else going on here on MN. A lot of the posts come across as: "Know your place. You're not welcome in this profession."

Seriously. You need to try reading some of the posts back. There is a really weird element of "You don;t fit here." It's strange. I think it comes from a history of becoming defensive as a result of being devalued - but it makes for a really dangerous situation where newcomers and trainees are genuinely not made welcome. A kind of hazing. That's a worrying state of affairs. And it is implicitly anti-woman.

[PersianCatLady]

There were paragraphs in my thread when I wrote it and now it is a block of text, sorry

[MaisyPops]

It's not about talking women out of doing a PGCE. Generallly when I've seen people pointing out to be careful when career changing it is because you'd be surprised how many people thinj doing a PGCE means 'good salary and I get the holidays so don't have to sort childcare'. From what I've seen on other threads, people have just pointed out that it's worth going in with your eyes open.

I love teaching. It's great. But I wouldn't say term time hours are 'family friendly' or anything.
My first choice for my PGCE is the school that I went to myself and my son left there in July
You don't get to choose (at least i have never come across it as a trainee or a mentor).
It's fhe same reason I'm cautioning about people saying 'i don't drive but there is a school on thr trainline'.

Training providers factor in lots of things when allocating placements and trainee preference isn't one of them (beyond 'as I'm in the south of the placement region so I'd rather be that end than north'). Spring placements for 2017/18 trainees have only just been decided. Whether schools even offer training placements depends on what's going on in the school, do they have lots of new staff or already have NQTs in thr department, are there staff to mentor properly in the team or are the good mentors tied up with TLR posts, has someone left and they've struggled to recruit so experienced staff are gaining new ks4 classes mid year, is the department already trying to muddle through long term sickness etc.

I'm not trying to put anyone off. I really enjoy teaching. But please be cautious of thinking your placements will be convenient to you. My friend had to do 90mins on public transport for hers each way (walk, train, train, walk).

[Greenshoots1]

You DO NOT have to pay the bursary back even if you leave after the PGCE and this gas been the case since at least 2011 (I know this for a fact) but I am almost certain that it has always been the case (I cannot verify this right now so I won't say it is a fact)

I am sorry, you are mistaken or misinformed, as I said, I can't say exactly what schemes it is that demand this, but it is a fact, and you need to research this, in case it is the entry route that you are taking.

Either these teachers at your school on 2 year courses that they can't quit as they would have to pay their bursaries are liars, you are a liar or you have got very confused

again, sorry, but you siply don't know what you are talking about, I have been in 4 schools in the last five years. One school had several departments run ENTIRELY by individuals who could not leave, either because they would lose residency, or because they would have to repay training costs. In another school there were also many, not the same extent, and no one who was trapped by the conditions of their residency, but several who were trapped by the condition of having to repay training costs if they withdrew. In another school I was not aware of anyone, that doesn't mean there isn't.

[PurpleDaisies]

I am sorry, you are mistaken or misinformed, as I said, I can't say exactly what schemes it is that demand this, but it is a fact, and you need to research this, in case it is the entry route that you are taking.

It’s a fact that you can’t prove? You’ve got a funny idea of what a “fact” is and I can’t understand why you’d bother spouting such nonsense to people who have actually read the terms of their bursaries. What are you getting out of this?

[MaisyPops]

green
Are you thinking of some of the old salaried GTP routes perhaps?
I know some of them who had to complete their training year and NQT year in the employing school. It was a nightmare when the school got put ibto special measures so couldn't have trainees or nqts.
All non salaried trainees left (leaving salaried GTP and teach first) and then thr LA agreed that GTP trainees didn't havr to do their nqt year there

[Greenshoots1]

No-one is forced to teach for two years because they got a bursary and can't afford to repay it.

yes they are. I will repeat it for anyone who hasn't understood that yet....yes they are!

I can't tell you off the top off my head which routes into teaching require everybody to repay their training costs if they do not complete a minimum number of years, I would have to ask the teachers concerned, and the school is closed now. But certainly this is a common way for schools to make up the minimum staffing levels.

Not only that, but anyone entering through any route can be made to sign a similar agreement by a school that takes them on as an NQT

If they weren't, there would be an even greater teacher shortage!

(I'm not going to write it in capitals, because I'm sure you can all read quite adequately)

Do more research than you have done to date, because if you haven't identified how people get trapped like this, then you are at risk yourself. Do not sign anything without reading it first.

[Greenshoots1]

What are you getting out of this?

What do you think I'm getting out of this? I'm offering the benefit of my experience and knowledge to warn people that they are sleep walking blindfolded into a hellish experience that could wipe out years of their life and leave them permanently damaged.

Ask yourself why the suicide rate amongst teachers is more than double the rate among the general population, and even with this figure, why so many teachers and unions believe this figure has been spun right down.

[PurpleDaisies]

Not only that, but anyone entering through any route can be made to sign a similar agreement by a school that takes them on as an NQT

That doesn’t make any sense. If they’re taken on as an NQT, their bursary (if they even had one) wouldn’t have been paid by the school so how could they hold that over the NQT’s head?

Salaried schools direct trainees are members of staff when they are taken on. The school aren’t paying them a bursary. They’re paying them for the job they are doing as an unqualified teacher.

[thecatfromjapan]

OK. This thread has been utterly de-railed.

It's a support thread for people applying for their PGCE.

Can we respect that?

You know, since we're adults, and (at least nominally) committed to facilitating the growth in knowledge and experience of others.

And, yes, I realise I contributed to the de-railing.

Good luck to all of you applying for a PGCE place. I wish you success. Don't worry too much about the skills test - you'll be fine.

Enjoy your Christmas.