Teachers- may I ask why some do this?

[Snap8TheCat]

Apologies for the brief OP but waiting to be called in for an appointment.

Why do some teachers move ‘naughty’ children next to well behaved ones with the hope that the better behaved one will influence them and settle them down.

It’s unfair on those children to now have to sit next to a disruptive pupil.

This happens to my son and they ruin lessons for him, chair being kicked, swearing, etc etc. I’ve seen it on Educating Greater Manchester this week too.

What’s the rational behind it? Thanks.

[Snap8TheCat]

Update.

It was a few random subjects so I emailed his tutor to ask her opinion and she has emailed my back saying she definitely agrees he needs a different approach. The subjects they are set for are fine, less disruptive children in those.

Also it’s an all boys’ school so no chatty girls to put him next to unfortunately. His tutor said she would go forward with the suggestion that he has someone he can help next to him, get him chatting to new people but those who are a bit less confrontational.

[mumsneedwine]

As my own DD was that quiet child always sat next to the worst behaved kid I never do it ! I have the ones who are more of a challenge sitting right at the front, all together, so they can annoy each other. My quiet studious ones are at the back all together. I find this works as the disruption at the front lasts about 2 minutes and then they all get bored of it as no one else is paying them any attention. As soon as they behave I praise and give loads of attention - works for me.

[mynameisnotmichaelcaine]

DS with anxiety and teacher here. I tend to put the worst behaved on one side of the best behaved, and then mate of best behaved on the other side as a sweetener. This generally works well. If I were you I would ask for him to be moved. But I can tell you, it's an impossible job to make it fair for everyone. My DS is pretty much immune to mockery about being a swot, thankfully, and has made some friends who have brought him out of his shell a bit, thanks to always being sat by the bad boys.

[Penhacked]

O say this because I was studious and got sat next to the naughty boy, but he was quite funny and due to MY personality, didn't intimidate me. Seating plans are an art!!

[Penhacked]

I think if I were in this position, I would go direct to the subject teacher or couple of teachers in question, or if t is every class, the head of year. Explain your ds is coming home very anxious due to the type of disruptive student, or better still, a couple of names. Say you don't expect him to be out with friends, but a better seating plan match for him would maybe someone struggling with work, but quiet. Someone he can help, who doesn't intimidate him verbally or physically. Or maybe a very chatty girl?

[leccybill]

I have 34 in one class...about 8 of them are disruptive. It's tricky.

[Csd17]

Very important that if your child is unhappy in his place in the classroom that you let the teacher know. If a parent contacted me regarding this, or if the child spoke to me about their issue, I would 100% rearrange the seating plan differently. Sometimes the issue can be space in the classroom.. some of my larger classes of 27+ mean space is v limited.

[MySecretThread]

PhysicSkate

Please suggest alternatives for us lazy teachers 🤔 as you’re the expert!

There is no need to be sarcastic. I never said I was an expert. All I know is that the teachers at my DCs kids put the naughty kids next to my kids a lot. I wouldn't have minded as much and my kids wouldn't have minded as much if everyone in the class had a turn with the naughty kid. Would you continually sit a disruptive kid next to a quiet well behaved kid in the knowledge that the quiet kid would be disrupted? If so then I think that is a crappy thing to do to a little kid.

My kids teachers freely admitted that they did it so I know what my D.C. were saying was true. My kids were unusually quiet and reserved at school. It's just how they were. I could see no good reason at all for them to end up next to the disruptive kids for so much of the time. I wonder if my kids were more whingy about it whether the teachers would have continued to do it.

It was the same with flipping group punishments. I had teachers tell me that they knew my kids were not involved in whatever triggered a class punishment but they had to have the punishment too. How can any teacher think it's ok to punish a kid when they know that they haven't done anything wrong - I just think it's lazy.

BTW. My kids just got on and did the group punishments but they were quietly quite salty about it whenever it happened and I didn't blame them.
BTW2. My kids were completely normally behaved at home - they saved their angelic behaviour for school

[Iizzyb]

Totally and utterly agree with you OP. I was one of the good ones who often had to sit next to disruptive naughty ones. I loved most of Primary school. I hated the first 2 years at secondary school until we were streamed & I was in classes all day with kids like me who wanted to learn & challenged each other in a positive way. First 2 years were all about crowd control and I hated it.

I would ask school to move them round. Not fair on your ds esp given his own concerns. Don’t assume teachers have noticed or are even aware. Be that parent if you have to be x

[Starlight2345]

I had sympathy till you got all judgey about the kids with behaviour problems. I don't think you would appreciate people second guessing where your child's anxiety problems came from.

My DS has ADHD prior to medication low level disruption was part of his day. I was well aware there were another 30 odd children in the class not him..I discussed it with him many times how his behaviour effected others..However no amount of teacher experience or my DS wanting to do well ( he loves learning but struggled to sit still not shout out, focus on his work) could control him, Various seating plans were tried. Sitting next to the none distractable child, however didn't work as he just got up and disturbed more children, sitting by another disruptive child so they were only distrupting each other..In the end sat in front of the teachers desk was what worked best and that is what worked best .. Medication he now gets on with his work disrupts no one , he has a high IQ and is busy playing catch up with the other children.
I also have a friend who her DS very very sensible that was sat next to a child later diagnosed with ADHD...She had concerns but actually became best friends and she also that the child with Adhd brought out the fun side in her class.


Yes of course as many people have said if it affecting your child go in but the children who don't just sit there and get on with it also are entitled to an education.

[physicskate]

@mysecretthread - teachers are only human. What would you have them do instead? Put all the ‘naughty children’ together and create a negative learning environment for everyone??

It isn’t ‘lazy teachering’ but a well-recognised teach inquest to manage classroom behaviour for learning!

Please suggest alternatives for us lazy teachers 🤔 as you’re the expert!

[Speckledtulip]

I am a mum and a teacher.
For goodness sake. Just email the subject teachers where this is an issue and explain the situation. Ask for your son to be moved away from the naughty kid.
I think you know what to do and this thread is just another stealth moan about teachers.

[orangeowls]

It’s done because it works as an effective classroom management technique and most children aren’t negatively impacted - however if that arrangement is upsetting a particular child all the parent or child would need to do is tell me and i’d move them. This has happened in the past and I’ve always adjusted the seating plan accordingly. Realistically it shouldn’t be a big issue, let the teachers know how this is impacting your son and I would imagine it would be sorted.

[MySecretThread]

BTW. My kids had this happen at a private school.

[MySecretThread]

I've not read all the replies, also my D.C. Are now grown up so it's not that relevant to me any more .. however I'm still mad at all the teachers that kept doing this to my D.C. My D.C. were very quiet and well behaved at school and we repeatedly put next to the naughtiest kids. It really annoyed them and it really annoyed me. If the teachers aren't capable of getting the naughty kids to behave they why did they think my kids could. I really didn't mind if the kids were next to the naughty kids some of the time. That's fair and understandable but it would happen time and time again. I did speak to the teachers who would agree and move my kids but within days sometimes my kids would be back with the naughty kids again.
My kids said they felt as though they were being punished for being well behaved.

Grr I'm all annoyed just thinking about this 😭😭

I think it's lazy teacher'ing. There, I've said it!! Teachers that do this are lazy and mean.

[Snap8TheCat]

Ok. I get it. I do.

Now in all honesty, putting your mum hat on instead of your teacher hat, what would you do if you were me?

[BoneyBackJefferson]

Snap8TheCat

The seating plan in my class is such because I don't have the room to fully separate the disruptive pupils out.

Because I am a teacher every child has to have a fresh start at the beginning of each lesson and if they continue to disrupt the lesson or learning of other I remove them from the room.

I get complaints from the disruptive because they are not next to their mates, I get complaints from their parents because they get told off, I get complaints from the parent's of the good pupils because their children don't want to be near the disruptive pupils, and I get moaned at by the SLT for the behaviour of pupils in the class.

I am stuck between a rock and a hard place and all pupils must be seen to be able to make "good" progress.

Throw a few pupils with SEND in there and I (and other teachers) have very few (no) options.

[Dollycherry]

I get your frustration, especially as a parent, but as a teacher I really resent the fact that you think we don't care about the quiet, studious children or that we are doing things for an easy life.

Firstly, the quiet studious children are often the ones that are going to respond best to our teaching and therefore likely to do well in exams etc - so we'd be mad to to do something that puts their learning/chances of achievement at risk!

Secondly, we think about these things very carefully, we are forever second guessing ourselves, discussing seating plans with colleagues or revising opinions and trying other solutions. Actually, nearly every aspect of teaching, including seating plans, are under microscopic examination/observation/pressure from our line managers and senior leaders so there is no way that we would get away with doing anything for an easy life or anything that disadvantages pupils.

Thirdly, we are professionals and have degrees and qualifications in education. We know all about disruptive behaviour, we've written essays on children with anxiety and how to help them make progress, we've sat through intensive INSET training on all the latest ideas and solutions which may help make a difference and, on top of all that, we have a lot of experience and know what we're doing.

And, lastly, most of us are pretty nice, conscientious people who care about your child. We did not choose this career because it pays well or because it is easy or because we would like always to have our holidays at the busiest, most expensive times of the year. No, we chose it because we like kids, we care about making a difference to the next generation and we think learning is spectacularly important and changes lives. And the vast majority of us, after a polite phone call, would do whatever you ask of us.

[AppleKatie]

TBH there should be space in a classroom for a poorly behaved kid to be sat on their own if necessary.

Much easier said than done. I teach in a naice independent and 8/10 times this is possible. But if I had another 10 pupils in the classroom and significantly more of them had behavioural issues (which statistically that's what state teachers face) it just isn't possible.

The class teacher will probably move your child if you ask OP- I would. BUT be aware that he may not be the worst in the class- just the one you know about. So be careful what you wish for.

[fleshmarketclose]

Dd was always seated next to the more challenging children in Primary purely because I think she was very able at keeping them in line. Having three brothers (one with autism) meant that she was adept at ignoring any attempts at distracting her and had a death stare that would stop a charging bull There were four very challenging boys went through primary with her and I don't think any child escaped unscathed from one or the other of them and yet they never ever bothered dd. It must be difficult though if your child struggles when placed next to difficult peers.

[sweetkitty]

As a teacher and a parent I can see both points of view.

I actually wrote a letter to DD2s teacher last year asking for her not to sit next to a certain boy as she always got stuck next to him and hated it. It was low level things he would do like encroach on her space, nudge her and bump her whilst she was working, take her things and not give them back. He also had very poor personal hygiene and his hands were often up his nose, down his pants or in his mouth and he wiped his fingers in her a few times which was unacceptable, I can understand her the teacher put him next to quiet studious DD2 but when it was affecting her work and her enjoyment of school that's when I asked her to move him.

[Snap8TheCat]

Luckily that isn’t the only option.

[Calmanrose]

You want control over who is in classes and who they sit next to...you pay for private ed

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

Do you imagine that the parents of the children who may have ADHD are wringing their hands over sympathy and concern for my child or any others in the class. Probably not.

Actually quite a few do.

[Snap8TheCat]

But you need to have some sympathy too for a child who may have adhd or other issues

may have we don’t know. And I do know that my son has anxiety. Do you imagine that the parents of the children who may have ADHD are wringing their hands over sympathy and concern for my child or any others in the class. Probably not. I imagine they also have enough on their plate worrying about their son and getting the right help for him. As I shall do for mine. Why is it the quiet and meek are always told to make way and give allowances for the brash and bold? Do you think anyone sits him down and tells him to make allowances for my son? Do you think they would listen?