NQT - school expects 13 hr days - can I do anything?

[SandyBeachandtheDeckchairs]

Hi all Just in case my post sounds familiar I have recently name changed. I am starting a job at a London primary school next week. Have spoken to many teachers during the setting up days over the holidays and it appears that 13 hr days are the norm there. Every lesson work is done in a book, and each book needs to be marked before it is seen. Marking is done very thoroughly using various different symbols, coloured pens and comments. The sentiment seems to be that the staff are knackered and have had enough of the workload. If it's bad for them, it's going to be worse for me, and I am pretty old so don't have the wealth of energy you'd expect from an NQT. So, my question is: Can I actually do anything or will I just have to buckle down and get on with it?

I think you slightly misunderstood me, Bless: I was far from assuming you had fewer hours of teaching! I actually think it makes our lives a lot easier seeing our classes so much because we have fewer books to mark. Less time consuming to show progress through marking in 150 core books than to do the same with 700+ humanities books, which some of my friends have to do! I can't fathom teaching all of the students in school, which I know some of your colleagues must do!

What time do you go home after school? Any chance you could do an hour extra and then not have to take anything home?

I don't know how people manage a family life, working every evening. I think it's also psychological: if I have work in the house, I don't really feel as if I can switch off!

Two things that have helped me massively cut down on marking: we use comparative judgement to mark mock exams and practice essay questions. Google it but basically you scan all the essays in on a PC, then you need software (we use No more marking). Your dept have their own login. All the essays are uploaded on the software, and you pick a sample which you mark and tell the software the mark they got (using a spread of marks). When a teacher logs in, they see two essays side by side. All they do is read them and choose the best one. Then they see another two and repeat. You keep going as many times as needed. You will see the same essay more than once. The software then ranks them according to how the teachers rated them, and uses the sample marks to award marks to all the essays depending on where they fall in the rankings. the algorithms involved are complex and allow for essays to receive the same score. It takes less than a minute to do each comparison and because everyone in the dept ranks the essays, it builds in moderation too. We make the essays anonymous to further make it accurate.

The other thing is circulating round the class with a highlighter in hand (I always use pink and tell the kids they're not allowed pink so I can spot mine quickly). Over their shoulders I dab any mistakes I see - punctuation, there/their etc. I don't tell them what's wrong but if they can't see it themselves they know to ask me. They are expected to correct the error straight away. It massively cuts down marking time when I take books in as in 20 mins of silent writing time I can easily get round the class doing a quick swoop and sweep of my highlighter.

I would really recommend the blog Learning From My Mistakes to any English teacher. I nick loads of ideas from it.

Lowdoorinthewal1 They're Y3, so hopefully they can self assess!

Faceoff "How do you ensure your staff's work-life balance?" that will be my mantra from now on!

Sorry louse I wasn't clear - I realise you weren't suggesting I taught fewer hours - I was trying to explain that I think I teach the same number of sessions at KS5 - ie, I teach 8 periods per fortnight which I think is the same as your English. It was in response to you saying, contact time for us is approx 8 hours a fortnight, rather than having lots more students for fewer hours, as I assume you do.

I was trying to say, nope, I think I have the same contact time! Sorry. Still can't see how I can honestly get away with any less than a couple of hours most evenings - it's mostly because of the new GCSE tbh. I have 2 Y11 classes and 2 Y10 classes and they are struggling with structure - content is massively heavy and so it's a constant setting of 8/12/16 mark questions for practise. 1 hr commute - so leave home at 7 to be in for 8am. Tend to leave about 5 and home by 6, so I do stay an hour after school - but a lot of this is crap paperwork/admin/photocopying time; you know what it's like! It's my time to deal with all the HoD stuff. This generally means I've got a set of A level essays or a class pile of books in an evening as I currently teach 11 classes.

I'm not grizzling particularly - I've taught for about 30 years now, so I've got plenty of marking/planning experience - but the ruddy govt keep changing stuff . Currently half way through the new 2 year GCSE - so entire new SoW, lessons, mark scheme etc! Teaching new A level NEA this year so more planning, sigh.

sandy from a primary point of view, this is what I do:
Maths I try and mark as much as possible within the lesson. Our school encourages this as things can be addressed within the lesson. If I have ticked a fair amount in lesson, I can normally add a comment and a next step for 30 books in my 20 min break. Yes I work through my break but I'd rather have 20 mins more at home. I print my next steps prior to the lesson and stick them in or if I'm being really organised I print onto stickers. Sometimes I just write '1' '2' or '3' in their book as a next step and then display questions numbered 1/2/3 on the board at the start of the lesson.

English - I don't mark English every single day. It depends what they've done - if it's something that doesn't need to be addressed straight away e.g. A grammar task then I will leave it until I mark something else. I find this saves me time as I can do a quick scan and comment in 20 seconds.

I have a 'seen by miss skeleton' stamp to stamp peer/self assessed work so I'm not double marking it.

Sometimes I mark English in lunch, sometimes after school. Afternoon lessons I try and mark within the lesson again, even if you don't get a full mark done, correcting spellings and ticking good things as you see them really helps when you come to do the final mark.

I mark homework before school.

Get the kids to leave their books open on the page they did their work on. Saves time.

When it comes to planning, don't spend ages considering different options and ideas for activities. Pick one that will do the job and just get it done. I always consider whether the extra time I'm spending on a lesson will be matched by extra learning and if not I don't bother making that laminated cut out flash card jigsaw. Life's too short.

Create displays you can keep up for as long as possible. If you're required to have working walls, staple a wad of flip chart paper to the display and get some magic whiteboards of amazon. Teach directly onto this - display is done.

On days where you have a meeting after school plan things with self marking or minimal/no marking. When you're doing a long writing task plan an easy mark maths.

NQT is hard as you can't reuse planning but it does get easier. And there are schools out there who care about workload. Good luck x

Oh and teach the children say 2 or 3 plenaries that they can then run themselves e.g. Times table bingo, have a bingo master or whatever who's decent at times tables. If they're running it you can be nipping round ticking and it's a useful plenary.

Thanks Skeleton that's really helpful. I can picture myself doing all of those, they seem manageable. Displays may be a problem as everything needs backing twice before going up [rolls eyes] but I'll give it my best shot. Like you I don't need breaks, would rather have the time at home!
Thanks a million.

Thanks everyone else for help me on this thread too.

Oh and by the way, I have to achieve perfect cursive handwriting by Thursday!

Oh FFS! You know you dont have to stay your whole NQT year? I wouldn't!

Wont it look bad if I don't -Doom? I thought I had to stay for the year...

Oh GOD no if it's hell get out at Christmas! You have until October to see how things go.

Backing things twice - if you're printing something print it off with a big thick coloured border or print the sheet with a coloured border and then you can just back it once on black!

E.g. My lettering I used to cut out leaving a white border and then back on black. Looks double backed lol

Haven't read the thread but 13 hour days are standard for most professionals.

May I gently suggest a non professional job if you dont want to do long hours.

No wonder there is a recruitment and retention crisis in teaching when people claim this is inevitable and normal. I am a FT secondary HOD. My department achieved excellent results this year. I am in school from 7.30 til 4.30 unless we have parents' eves, twilight etc. Some nights I work after my 2 dc are in bed but for about 1 hour, 2 max, and same at the weekend. If you plan and mark effectively, share planning and reserpine making, you really don't have to martyr yourself to the job. Teachers need to set their one boundaries if the workload crisis is ever going to be solved.

Many autocorrect fails there sorry!

Do sod off, Niki. My siblings are doctors and lawyers and none work 13 hour days. Nor does my best friend who is an accountant or my husband who is an MD. If teaching is cushdy, why aren't you doing it?

It's unfortunately very easy - in a culture of 'fear league tables & Ofsted' - that SLT make unreasonable and unsustainable demands on teachers. Burn-out is a real issue.

Smart Heads are realising they need to retain committed staff and give them the space to plan inspiring lessons & not spend every waking hour marking. Individualised/repetitive feedback is not good use of teachers time however pretty it may look in the books.

This school head has got it right imo:

mcsbrent.co.uk/english-31-10-2015-marking-is-a-hornet/

Agree with toomuch and prophet. Michaela are doing brilliantly and good for them. I spoke at the same conference as their head of English once and she was inspirational. They don't mark or use PowerPoint.

NikiBabe - my DH earns 3x my teaching salary (inner London UPS teachers salary) and works fewer hours than me. He can work from home then our DC are sick and gets time off no problem for assemblies/shows/trips.

I really enjoyed that piece Prophet and gave a lot of feedback as I walked around the Y5 class in my placement school. It was really effective and meant that the end piece of work was much better. This and peer assessment/self assessment meant that the children were much more involved in their work and improving it all the time during the lesson. It also gave more of team-y attitude to work which I liked too.

susan what do they use instead of Powerpoint? I'd feel bare without a flipchart!

She writes about it here

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/readingallthebooks.com/2017/03/25/powerpoint/amp/

Sorry now Niki, but 13 hour days are absolutely not necessary. I work in Ireland. I do an hour after school, maybe two hours once a week. Work doesn't come home, and I teach damn well.

The long unhealthy hours described in this thread are down to the insane workload in some UK schools, not the requirements for a professional teacher.

I don't agree with everything Michaela do, but they're working towards getting the balance right re: teacher workload.

One of the most time saving devices I ever bought was a 'verbal feedback given' stamp. I am secondary English and I use it every day and make sure I speak to each child at least once a week. They then have to write up my feedback. Not only is this a very effective way of getting them to engage with the feedback but it saves time for me.

I get to school at about 7.30 and leave any time from 3.10 to 6. I work for about an hour in the evening. I am SLT and HOD. As a school we have worked tirelessly to reduce workload and the ks3 marking expectation is once every half term. The outcomes at GCSE are outstanding and it is a great place to work. We have gone from Inadequate to Outstanding since the current HT arrived and nobody has be signed off for stress in the same time. It doesn't have to be so hard.

I'm just gobsmacked by this post!
I work in one of the top Ofsted outstanding schools in the country.

We are free to leave after the lessons end( that 10 hour day thing is just 😵)

Marking is simplified as much as possible. AFL is the key.

If we have extra workload, SMT try their hardest to take something off us.

Perhaps the fact that we are trusted is what leads to making it one of the top schools in the country.

I just can't believe some of the stuff on here!

Can I come and work with you Emoji?

Maisie the school prides itself on its creativity, so that is why classrooms/displays have to be as top quality as poss. Kids love it, staff, not so much! Not sure why marking is quite so OTT, but will find that out next week.