At the vets, de clawed cats being registered

[Goadyflattery]

Surely that's not legal? The receptionist didn't say anything, they are not rescued as the stupid women was banging on about their pedigree and how she had it done to stop them climbing

[Floralnomad]

As far as I know breeders only have to show that some of the litter will be working to be able to dock the entire litter . I have a docked terrier ( rescue) and was talking to a weimerainer breeder at our vets , she was arranging to have a litter docked and said that she had had more interest in this docked litter than any other litters she had sold in the last few years , infact she could have sold them 3x over . Sad really .

[coffeeisnectar]

I know someone who had their cat declawed. Or got the cat once it had been done. In the US, not here in the UK.

I have four cats. They are hellbent on destroying most of the furniture and carpets with their scratching but they get a gentle nudge and told to stop it and then plonked in front of their scratching posts. And they are allowed out so why they want to destroy the sofa I don't know. Furry little fuckers sweeties. :o

[TrionicLettuce]

Tail docking isn't entirely illegal, at least in England and Wales. For certain breeds as long as the breeder can prove they might end up being working dogs they can still be docked legally.

[sparechange]

I'm just reading the Wikipedia page on declawing, and it says that around 25% of all cats in the US have been declawed
And other than in 2 states where such laws have been banned, it is common for cats to be banned from apartment blocks unless they've been declawed.
So quite clearly not something found only in trailer parks.

I appreciate you feel the need to defend an entire nation, but the animal welfare record is abysmal, and the denial or minimising of these sorts of cruel practices are the reason it continues. You should be appalled by the record of your countrymen, not justifying it.

When the UK has had questionable animal rights issues, such as tail docking and fox hunting, they have been banned in law.
If the US gave a rats arse about animal welfare, they would do the same.
Instead, you can only have a pet in an apartment block if your first mutilate them.

[ArielisALiar]

Sparechange, it is legal in the UK to smack your child. I bet that most of the people you know do NOT smack their children, though. I don't know any British parents who hit their children, and among the British parents I know, anyone who hit their children would be looked upon with contempt and disgust...yet if I had never been to UK, and if I lived in a country in which smacking were illegal, I might very well decide that, because smacking is legal in UK, it must be widespread and completely acceptable to most British people, and that of course all British people must hit their children. Wouldn't that be silly?

[ArielisALiar]

Nevertheless, sparechange, I know someone who bought dog with docked ears and tail in England, so clearly some people still do this. I know multiple people in England who participate in fox hunting as well (not drag hunts, but hunts in which foxes are killed); I was recently in the home of an English family who has a wall of fox masks, a few of which have been recently added. So does this also "speak volumes about the attitudes towards animal welfare on an individual and national level" in UK? Of course not. It would be idiotic of me to make sweeping generalizations about what is done "in UK" based solely on a few paltry personal examples of people I know. I don't see any difference between a society that includes (a few) individuals who do an inhuman thing that is illegal, and a society that includes (a few) individuals who do an inhuman thing that is legal.

Look, multiple people on this thread have spoken from personal experience to tell you that declawing in America is NOT so prevalent as you believe it to be, and that it is all but unheard of in educated circles. Anybody who declaws will be a social pariah (outside of trailer park circles) in middle class America, and I know this because I am American and grew up in that culture. Yet you persist in believing that this is somehow not the case, and using it to make a judgement about "attitudes towards animal welfare on an individual and national level."

And the voice box thing is a non-issue because it isn't a "thing" in America. (That was just an utterly asinine thing to say: if SecretWitch asks her vet about this, I guarantee that the vet will tell her that he/she has never known someone who did this or asked for this).

[sparechange]

But docking ears and tails is illegal in the UK.
It isn't illegal in the US, nor is declawing. I'm afraid that speaks volumes about the attitudes towards animal welfare on an individual and national level, even if you don't personally know vets who declaw cats

[SecretWitch]

I've never ever seen or met anyone here who would go along with " demeowng" a cat. Our vet's are so lovely and ethical. I cannot even imagine a circumstance in which one could be induced to do such a thing.

[cozietoesie]

Ah.

[ArielisALiar]

Thank you, SerectWitch.

It amazes me that I am rarely believed when I tell British/European people that their perception of stereotypical American behavior is not correct. Since you are British, there is a better chance you will be believed.

I'm going to go polish my gun and eat candy now.

[ArielisALiar]

Cozie,

Your shelter had declawed cats because it isn't illegal to do, and so the trailer park faction continues to do it, just as they continue to smoke in homes with children, feed their children garbage, and other unhealthy, antisocial behavior. If declawing were legal in UK, I am sure that a similar proportion of the population would also have their cats declawed. That doesn't make the procedure "common", and it doesn't mean that the majority of educated people aren't horrified by the practice (just as horrified as educated British people are!). Most vets will NOT declaw. Having a declawed cat is unacceptable in educated, civilized society, and all but unheard of in such populations. Just because I know SOME British people engage in anti-social or cruel behavior does not mean that such behavior is common in the UK, or that I would seize upon this behavior as a common UK custom. For example, I know someone who purchased a dog with docked ears and tail in England, but I don't think that tail and ear docking are common, and I wouldn't tell Americans that, "Tail and ear docking are common in the UK and vets push it" just because it happens occasionally and some vets will do it.

And no, Cozie, I don't think that "anti-American idiocy" is harsh in a thread that mentions voice box removal in cats as if it is a common or regular "thing" in the US. I've never heard of that, and as I said, if it exists, it is done by a tiny, weird fringe group of lunatics. The fact that someone could mention such a thing, and that multiple others believe it, IS anti-American idiocy.

[SecretWitch]

I'm in the US, we had to sign papers stating we would not declaw our cats when we adopted them. You would be very hard pressed to find a vet around here willing to preform such a thing anyway. Our vet used to have a sign saying. " Yes, we will declaw your cat, if you allow us to cut your fingertips off first "..

[sparechange]

ArielisALiar
What aspects of British horse care are cruel?

[cozietoesie]

Arielis

I would like to think that it's truly a thing of the past in people's minds as well as any legislation but as I said, one of the bigger US rescue sites for my boy's breed has a specific section for each cat stating whether the cat is declawed or not. (I checked again today.)

To talk about 'uninformed anti-American idiocy' is a little harsh I feel?

[ArielisALiar]

No, Midsomermurderess, declawing is certainly not "very common" in America. I'm American, and I don't know anybody who had a declawed pet, and declawing is considered cruel and disgusting by most people (I'm from Massachusetts, by the way). Declawing is something that I associate with trailer parks and Honey Boo Boo and ignorant people who chain smoke and feed their kids mac and cheese for dinner: NOT something that educated, civilized people do, and CERTAINLY not something that vets "push" at people. Most vets do NOT declaw.

Also, I have never heard of someone having a cat's voice box removed. That is crazy. I don't believe that any vet would agree to do this. If your vet has heard of an American doing this, it must have been a freak one-off by a deranged individual.

I have two cats, and neither of them is declawed or de-voice boxed. Although now that I live in Europe, people keep asking if my cats ARE declawed, simply because I am American.

The uninformed anti-American idiocy is unbelievable. Voice box, indeed!

(By the way, there are some common British customs regarding horse care that most Americans find abusive and hard to believe).

[ineedamoreadultieradult]

We have a rescue who has a claw she can't retract due to an injury to her foot. The vet will not even remove that one claw even though she scratches herself with it when she washes herself. I imagine as it was already done there was really nothing to be said.

[cozietoesie]

I don't think it was ever as common as declawing, Mantra. I guess there are some people who take the 'animals as accessories' approach?

[sparechange]

Here is a link, if anyone is interested in knowing more. There are plenty of other exposes and undercover films as well, if this doesn't turn your stomach enough

m.youtube.com/watch?v=gxVlxT_x-f0

I can't comprehend how the supposedly most advanced country on the planet still tolerates nay encourages this barbarity and senseless abuse of kind and gentle animals.

[MrsPnut]

One of our old neighbour's had a rescue cat that they had homed whilst they lived in the states. They had to sign a disclaimer stating that he would only be an indoor cat because he had been declawed. They used to exercise him outside on a harness and lead.

[RubbishMantra]

You're welcome here spare, anyone who hates animal cruelty is, as far as I'm concerned, and I reckon everyone else here feels the same.

Battery acid, stun guns, FLICKY WALK - utterly incomprehensible. Poor horses. If you did that to a human, you'd be banged up.

[horseygeorgie]

sparechange is very correct. The Tennessee walking horses are very upsetting and disturbing to watch. There has been a show made of trying to address the problem but I don't think it is being very effective.

[RubbishMantra]

Oh, and Cozie - the voicebox removal. Why??! I love it when MCat greets me with his loud and insistent "Mmrrow!" and little Monsieur skips about the house, making a noise I can't describe. Even when he sits on the bedroom windowsill chattering and nickering at the birds, waking me up at dawn.

And that greeting when you walk through the door.

Imagine being made mute. What sort of vet would agree to such horror?

[sparechange]

Interloper here from the doghouse, but if you want to see another shining example of the American attitude to animal welfare, look at the 'Big Lick' trainers of the Tennessee Walking Horses
I can't actually bring myself to google the links to post them, because it is the most barbaric animal abuse you will see, but yet families queue up to attend country shows to see the horses with their 'flicky' walk
Which is 'trained' by painting battery acid onto their legs and using stun guns on them

[RubbishMantra]

I'd take great pleasure in chopping the owner's fingers off at the distal joint. I really would. Then she (the owner) wouldn't be able to get her claws manicured.

Why acquire an animal that you know needs to scratch and climb? Then chop bits off so it doesn't ruin your bee-oootiful furniture? It's part of their exercise to scratch, and their intrinsic nature to climb.

She should've got a fish, but the fins would probably annoyed her.

Imagine the pain of having parts of your fingers removed, all at once.

[sashh]

What is it with some Americans? Declaw your cat, mutilate your dog's ears, circumcise your son and buy your daughter a gun.

But don't import a Kinder egg, that wouldn't be right.