Flexi-lead

[Acheypain]

Hi, I feel like flexi-leads are frowned upon in general, but I think I want one!!
My working cocker spaniel is 14 months and although she stays close most of the time, her recall goes out of the window if she spots a bird. She always comes back within minutes but I hate it when she does it.
I’m thinking of getting an 8m flexi-lead to use when we’re at the beach/in the fields, just for those times I’d usually let her off. I will continue with a normal lead on our training type walks or around the streets.
I’ve tried a ridiculously long training lead but can’t get on with them.
Is a flexi lead in these circumstances a terrible idea? If not can anyone recommend one?
Thanks

[StillMedusa]

I use one a few times a year..when my girl is in season. But not in town. I use it when we are on country walks and she wants to sniff and mooch but can't be let off. I've only had to reel her in quickly a few times and if I have to grab the tape (never get cord one!) it's no different to her long line..just less to trip over.
However... I won't use one near roads or where there are lots of other dogs... then it's a short lead...just can't risk her dashing towards something.

The tape ones are better.. cords cause horrid injuries and my friend had her finger degloved last year with one and it was grim.

[Shambolical1]

I have twice (with different dogs, by different dogs) been brought down by dogs supposedly 'under control' on flexi-leads; the first fall brought down my dog too and injured his back. The second was in the middle of a pedestrian crossing and nearly got us all run over as the first car driver in the queue took his foot off the clutch and shot forwards.

I also regularly see people grabbing at the cord because they can't or don't know how to 'lock and reel' a flexi, dogs wandering into the road because their handlers can't seem to work out that they have freedom sideways as well as forwards and as others have mentioned, the burns to people and dogs.

Used safely in safe locations they can be useful for the right dog but used as they mostly are - and particularly as a first lead for a puppy - they're at worst a danger and at best a nuisance. The handles are too easy to drop and then clatter along behind the dog if they're not getting wedged into things and there is always resistance on a flexi which can teach a dog to pull against it (or encourage it out of a stay if you try and teach that using a flexi).

To avoid a wet and sandy long-line try searching for Biothane and practice for a bit with a shorter one (5m, say) before moving up to 10m or longer. It's really much easier and safer once you get the knack.

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

Ha! No! I have my hands full!

Is there a gundog club or trainer near you? That's where I learned most of what I do with my dogs. Plenty of people go who only intend for the dog to be a pet (but some get hooked).

I did teach sit-stay on my own though, using a fab system called paper plate recall (you can find it online). The blog 'raised by wolves' also has a photo essay how-to for it.

And 'close' just involves calling to the dog to get its attention as it wanders just too far, then calling 'close' and chucking a treat. Rinse and repeat about a dozen times a few times a day for a couple of days: your dog will get the idea. Gradually reduce the treats to just the odd bribe - once every 50-100 yards or whatever works. It's a damn sight easier than teaching off-lead heel.

Sorry to bind on, but I'm a bit evangelical about engaging gundogs' brains. We didn't do enough for our first gundog, and the second is so much easier and so much more fun for having that input.

[Acheypain]

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman can I just send my dog to you so you can teach her to do all those things? Sounds fab but I wouldn’t know where to start.

[coconutwhip]

We use a normal lead when roadside and switch to flexi when in an open area. As soon as you spot a dog I bring her back in (my flexi has a built in shirt lead with handle)

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

Thing is though, her concentration span for games/hunting balls/retrieving is about 15-20 minutes and then I put her back on her lead and bring her home.
It's great that you are doing this. I'm wondering how you can keep her going for longer, or break it up so she gets two play sessions...
Will she sit-stay? Because to be released from a longish one of those (3-5 mins) for more playtime would probably build her focus and the length of time she'll play.
Also do you do lots of different things? If she's bright, she's well able to learn all sorts of different things - directional work, being sent back for something she saw you drop or throw, learning to fetch different things, or find things like leads and gloves.

Also you can try and teach the command 'close'. To my dogs, this pretty much means, you can mooch about within about 20-30 feet of me, and now and again a treat will drop from the heavens. It's very handy if there's a scared puppy on the other side of the football pitch, or some cows further down the field - saves putting them on the lead, keeps them near me (though my old dog is a git so he's quite often put on the lead anyway...)

Re longlines, apparently biothane ones are fab as they don't soak up water and you can wipe them clean. But you won't want a longline dragging on the ground for a walk with the extended family...

[tabulahrasa]

Oh and... what length lead do you have? You get just leads, but longer as well.

[Floralnomad]

Totally agree with @DaffodilsAndDandelions , our dog is 10 and has a very good recall but my daughter has anxiety and there would be no way if she is with me that I could allow him off near cliffs etc . and it’s really not fair on the wildlife for him to be off near them as he’s a demon terrier and no amount of work on recall beats chasing a duck / fox .

[DaffodilsAndDandelions]

We have one for situations like you suggest OP. My dog is happy to mooch along and sniff stuff and pee while on his flexi that he won't do on a short lead. They are good for national trust type place where there are signs saying dogs MUST be on a lead. I feel mean when he's on a short one and every other dog is on a flexi.
At the end of the day, your dog sounds like a lead is necessary in some situations and tbh no amount of training would give me the confidence that mine suddenly wouldn't have a teenage moment!
I hate having to shout at my dog in public and would rather he was on a lead than having recall lessons all the time. Means he can switch off a bit too and just follow the lead.

We put toddlers on reins, hold older children's hands. Hold on to friends hands in pre Covid crowds. Why wouldn't you hold your dog? A flexi allowing someone freedom has to be nicer than a short lead

[tabulahrasa]

“plus on soft sand it sometimes just runs under my foot”

You tie great big knots in it, lol

[Acheypain]

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman thanks for all that. We did have a really good whistle recall with her until she hit the teenage phase and decided that the whistle meant “come back when you’ve just finished chasing that seagull”!!
We are continuing to work on it now and play lots of games with her in an attempt to be more interesting. Thing is though, her concentration span for games/hunting balls/retrieving is about 15-20 minutes and then I put her back on her lead and bring her home.
I’ve got a long line but can’t get to grips with reeling it back in and carrying it around wet and sandy! She’s so quick that if she decides to run after a bird I’d be lucky to stand on it (plus on soft sand it sometimes just runs under my foot).
When we go away at the end of the month we’ll be with extended family who will want long walks on the beach/cliffs/woods. I guess she’ll just have to have her off lead time and then go back on her normal lead. I wish there was an easy alternative somewhere in between a long line and a flexi lead.

[BadDucks]

I’ve given myself a “burn” with one it bloody hurts.

I’ve also seen a pup with one attached to a collar wrap him self around a tree and nearly choke to death

Have also read in the news recently about a woman who died after two retractable leads got wrapped around her neck. Fuck knows how that occurred and was probably the freakest of accidents but Christ what a way to die!

[Ihaventgottimeforthis]

Interesting, I've never really used one so I guess it is a knack.
I would definitely be susceptible to just grabbing the line and giving myself rope burn!

[tabulahrasa]

i use both... some of the issues people mention with flexis also apply to long lines btw, you can injure yourself and others with them, badly made or badly maintained ones snap... and the jolt at the end if you have a bolter is worse because they’re longer.


With a flexi, I use them for dogs who aren’t getting offlead (for various reasons) I find them easier to use like a really long lead and much easier to get a dog back to you on.

But you need to make sure you know how to use the lock, if you’re properly locking it rather than just holding it, always double check it’s on, but one that’s good quality (flexi branded rather than a cheap copy) you want one that’s designed for over the weight of your dog by lots and a tape not a cord one... and you want it to be clean and dry when you put it away.... and never touch the tape, only the handle when it’s unlocked.

Long lines I find are better for dogs that could be offlead if their recall was just a bit better - you can leave them trailing on the ground and just stand on it when you need to.

Oh and I use both on all sorts of sized dogs, largest would be about 45kg...

“ if you have to wait for the mechanism to reel back in and then lock it?”

Lock, quickly release the lock move forward then lock again, or, pull the dog towards you and unlock then lock again...it’s actually much quicker than trying to loop up a longline and even with a dog trying to get places it creates enough slack to reel in.

I wouldn’t use either near roads or other people or dogs and you always want to use them with a harness that had a loop on the dog’s back.

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

Sorry, this is long! I plainly don't have enough to do today...

You have two solutions to this issue:

1. Use some sort of a lead and be prepared to use it until your dog is old and sedate
   
2. Train your dog
   

You will probably want to use some sort of lead during training; I used a longline because I can let it drag which gives me a chance to reel the dog back in, without having to keep hold of it all the bloody time. And I hate flexis because they can be so dangerous: a longline might trip you up, but it won't deglove a finger.

With a longline on, you can approach training. There are four things I would do:

1. Give the dog something to do and make being near you a lot of fun. Teach it to hunt for tennis balls near you, and bring them to you. This will tie into a working cocker's hunting and retrieving abilities. Practice off-lead heel (clicker, treats) which will focus the dog on you. Get a gundog dummy and get your dog fetching it to you from across the field, or out of brambles.
   
2. In tandem with making myself fun, I would do a lot of work on recall - indoors, outdoors, in boring places outdoors and in more exciting places outdoors. If the dog won't come, don't let it just stand there and look at you: get hold of the end of the longline, give it a tug and then recall again. Every time the dog comes to you, reward with food, praise, fuss, a toy - whatever works for the dog. I'm about to start on recall revision with one of my dogs, and will be out there with a tube of Primula once it cools down today.
   
3. You could also try teaching the stop whistle. Sometimes a stop will cut through the red haze of chasing when a recall won't, because you're not asking the dog to take its eye off the target. Once the dog has stopped, though, recall is much easier - or you have a chance to grab the line. There are lots of videos on YouTube and various gundog books have section on how to teach it.
   
4. This is the trickiest (and IME bloody hard with squirrels as they are never where you think they'll be): teach your dog to be 'steady'. You will need to build up to this with sit-stay and stop. You get them used to seeing various targets (rabbits, chickens, whatever) and being able to sit there, not chase, and recall to you or heel away off-lead or whatever. I did this with rabbits by having the dog on a longline, taking her to temptation and piling on the rewards for stopping when told and coming back to me. She is great near rabbits, but a bugger around squirrels...
   

Working cockers have a lot of prey-drive, but they are very trainable. Doing stuff with your dog builds a really good bond with them, so they want to be with you and get terribly excited when they see the dummy bag come out.

[CaptainMyCaptain]

It's very quick to reel the lead back in. Obviously you keep an eye out for other dogs or things that might distract your dog and keep it locked short near roads.

One of the reasons I said I use one is that my dog is liable to jump into any water. I can actually let her have a swim on the flexilead and gradually pull her back when time's up.

[Ihaventgottimeforthis]

I always wonder how you can get your dog back close to you in an emergency, if you have to wait for the mechanism to reel back in and then lock it?
For example if the dog dashes out in the road or runs up to another dog, or is in a river?
With a long line you can grab and loop it up.

[IthinkIsawahairbrushbackthere]

I would only use one in a place where I would otherwise use a long line but would never trust the lock on a short lead so would never use it for walking on the pavement/through a car park. And, as others have said, on a harness, not a collar.

[mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork]

PS after seeing other comments about size of dog suitable for flexis - my previous dog was a LARGE retriever/collie-type mix and very strong and current dog is a staffie - neither were a problem, once I'd learned how to use the lead mechanism with ease.

[mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork]

I always use one but you do need to be careful at first until you get used to it and nifty at clicking the stop button on and off when you need to. If you lock the lead in order to get your dog back nearer to you, I find it best to pull them back a little way with the handle - never touch the tape, and lead naturally rolls back into handle, then snap on stop again before pulling dog back again , etc in stages as it is more comfortable for the dog and you retain control should they suddenly run/move off again. If my dog does suddenly run (after a squirrel, for instance), I call out you are ON THE LEAD, BE CAREFUL and it then checks her sufficiently so she slows down and doesn't hurt herself. (She is quite smart). I also keep an eye on our surroundings/who is approaching, etc so that I have lots of time to reel her in if necessary. (You will see if you try). I favour the tape rather than the cord as you are less likely to hurt dog or yourself with the tape (also my previous dog bit through cords flexis when being walked by non-doggy people, whom she did not have respect for! - She got through 3 when I was on holiday and a friend dogsat , having assured me she was used to dogs - clearly not, according to other dogowners in the park when I returned).

[CaptainMyCaptain]

Exactly @floralnomad, that's how I use mine. If used sensibly with a small dog I think they're fine. I wouldn't use one with a large dog and a working cocker might be borderline.

[Floralnomad]

I have a flexi lead for when I take mine to places where he can have a sniff about but can’t go offlead like NT places , cliffs ( I don’t trust him he’s thick) , near water and in woods ( he kills wildlife) . I attach it to his harness and we’ve used it now for 9 yrs , fairly regularly without any injury to the dog or myself . They are ideal if they are used correctly .

[Borderstotheleftofme]

Another thing that hasn’t been mentioned on here, is if the dog is walking nicely and suddenly takes off it’s easy to accidentally let the lead go (done it myself when I looked after DBs dog) and some dogs then panic and run and MIL did it once, only MIL quickly grabbed hold of the lead and cut her hand.

[Acheypain]

@Greywind1523 mine is a working cocker so fairly small but quite strong. I would only use one in places I’d be happy to let her off lead, so nowhere near roads.
It does all sound a bit scary though. Because as I say she’s quite strong, and she’s fast. I’ll maybe give it a miss and reconsider trying again with the long line.

[Greywind1523]

There were quite a lot of photos of human arms and legs that appeared to have been burnt/cut/severed by the leads where the owner/other had ended up in the way.

A couple of cases where the mechanism had failed when the dog had set off at speed, one resulting in the dog ending up run over and killed and another a lorry driver ended up swerving to avoid dog, causing a multi vehicle pile up (obviously there weren’t photos of this).

I think you need to be sure that the dog won’t suddenly set off and yank hard enough to break the lead, as well as making sure the lead doesn’t end up wrapped around anybody in the vicinity. Possibly easy enough with a small dog but I cringe when I see people walking big strong dogs on them.