Dog bit the postie!!

[NameChange564738]

He’s nearly 10 and hasn’t ever done this before, we’ve recently had a new baby which I’m suspicious has been a contributing factor.

Postie put his hand wrist deep into our letterbox and the dog has bitten two of his fingers. There was quite a bit of blood but it stopped easily.

But.. what the hell do we do? He didn’t give us his name, wouldn’t accept a lift back to office. We cleaned and stopped the bleeding before he left.

What should I do with the dog? I’m shocked, upset, apprehensive about what’s to come.

Does anyone have any experience with dogs biting people?! What’s the outcome?

[Picklypickles]

When I still lived at home with mum we had a staffie who hated postmen, because our local paper delivery man used to come into our garden and whack him repeatedly with a rolled up newspaper when he was a puppy and bouncing over to say hello. We got a postbox and attached it to the front gate but the postmen sometimes ignored it for some reason and one day one of them got nipped and it bruised his leg so he called the police. Then the dog bit the policeman when he came into the garden! Thankfully the policeman was reasonably understanding and mum agreed to keep the dog to the back garden and no further action was taken. The dog never bit anyone else he just didn't like people coming into the garden.

[Floralnomad]

That’s good news OP .

[NameChange564738]

For completeness:

They sent a letter saying there would be no action on this occasion. I’m relieved, the postie is also ok and was back at work next day.

Just need to make sure the rest of the dogs days are safe for everyone.

Thanks for everyone’s input, it really helped.

[SteelyPanther]

The life lesson is not to put your fingers through a post box. Particularly when a dog is barking on the other side, like the Op said it was.

[BluebellsareBlue]

@RunningFromInsanity at no point have I quoted or indeed Mis quoted any laws, nor did I provide advice or direction to the OP. You cannot under any circumstances state that YOU will know the outcome of a case prior to it being heard in a court of law. Before you start casting aspersions I suggest you take time to make sure you have all the facts. That will also help you in your job going forward.

[Sparklfairy]

Oh OP I feel for you. First because I had a dog that got dementia and became unpredictable with biting having always been the most docile animal ever, and second I have delivered thousands of flyers through letterboxes and this was my biggest fear. Luckily the flyers were quite sturdy card so I developed a routine of sort of lifting the letterbox with one hand and shoving the flyer through with the other without putting fingers anywhere near. The scariest I had was a huge rottweiler type throwing themselves full height at the door as I was bent down. Shocked me so much I fell on my arse, then saw the "we have CCTV sign"

[RunningFromInsanity]

And it wouldn’t even matter if your aren’t 100% on dog law, not many police officers are and its why there are DLOs and expert witnesses and it keeps me in a job, but when someone is looking for advice and you tell her incorrect information, that’s dangerous.

[RunningFromInsanity]

[quote BluebellsareBlue]@RunningFromInsanity so the dog WOULD be, in court, classed as a dangerous dog and subject to the determination of the court? Is that a fact eh? You haven't had much experience in courts of law then have you. I couldn't give two hoots if you, a civvy, don't think I am a 'police officer', I didn't get to my rank listening to the opinions of those above their station. Are you on the list of DD expert witnesses? I'm embarrassed for you.[/quote]
If this case was taken to court, then the outcome would be the owner would be charged with having a dog dangerously out of control.
It caused injury to someone lawfully on the premises.

Now my recommendation would not be to prosecute, but a CR to stop it happening in future.

Several times in this thread you have misquoted dog law. As a police officer that is worrying. Luckily there are DLOs who are more educated.

Anyway, the OP has got the information she needed, and has put steps in to stop it happening again which is the responsible thing to do.

[Andiwilltrytofixyou]

Just in case things escalate and you need professional support check out these guys: www.doglaw.co.uk

[NameChange564738]

Or put the damn thing down, which would be my preference.

@hammie46i I wonder if you have/had dogs?

That ‘damn thing‘ is a living sentient being that I’ve cared for for a decade, he’s never even been to a kennel, he is wholly my responsibility and always has been. Whilst I understand the gravity of what’s happened I posted to get others opinions on a sensible route forward.

Anything with teeth has the possibility of biting its only with someone’s track record that we build trust that they won’t, we certainly don’t go around calling children who bite others ‘things’.

[BluebellsareBlue]

@RunningFromInsanity so the dog WOULD be, in court, classed as a dangerous dog and subject to the determination of the court? Is that a fact eh? You haven't had much experience in courts of law then have you. I couldn't give two hoots if you, a civvy, don't think I am a 'police officer', I didn't get to my rank listening to the opinions of those above their station. Are you on the list of DD expert witnesses? I'm embarrassed for you.

[Socre383]

hammie46i the life lesson is to do your job as you’ve been trained to do it. A postman delivering letters by putting their hand through someone’s letterbox is not doing their job properly. Every post worker knows this. If you get bitten by pushing your hand through then more fool you.

[Borderstotheleftofme]

What life lesson would that be? Don't try and post things through peoples letterboxes?
If it gets to the point where the postie can't post something through your door, it means your dog is out of control
If you have an out of control dog, you need to have a letterbox at the end of your drive and a gate to keep people out
As a dog owner and lover, I agree tbh.
If you feel there is any risk whatsoever of nipped/bitten fingers regardless of whether the dog is overexcited, territorial, playing whatever you need to have an outside box.
L

[hammie46i]

@SteelyPanther

The dog was defending its territory, like it’s supposed to. It didn’t just go up to a person and bite them.
Hopefully the postie has learned a life lesson.

What life lesson would that be? Don't try and post things through peoples' letterboxes? If it gets to the point where the postie can't post something through your door, it means your dog is out of control. If you have an out of control dog, you need to have a letterbox at the end of your drive and a gate to keep people out. Or put the damn thing down, which would be my preference.

[Grottyfeet]

The Post Office take forward private prosecutions where the police dont act but it seems the likely sanction is to force homeowners to put up guards etc

[SteelyPanther]

The dog was defending its territory, like it’s supposed to. It didn’t just go up to a person and bite them.
Hopefully the postie has learned a life lesson.

[hammie46i]

If I had a dog that bit someone and I had children, I'd rehome it with someone who knew about the biting. Or as a last resort, have it put down.

[CherryPavlova]

[quote BluebellsareBlue]@CherryPavlova of course I uphold the law, for 24 years I have upheld the law. Applying the law is different, you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and I can see that a previous poster has told the OP to ignore your comments as you have form for talking utter bollocks. I won't engage with you further as you are clearly an eejit[/quote]
How rude. Reported. Name calling someone who understands the law better than you is not acceptable surely?
Clearly you don’t understand the law. Which is a bit worrying if you are meant to be the one upholding the law.

[Littlemeadow123]

@RunningFromInsanity

Still seems like a massive overreaction. If I put my hand in someone's letterbox and got bit by a dog on the other side, I would say that it was my own stupid fault. But then I've worked with animals for years and know how their minds work. Unlike people who are scared of them/just hate them.

If this is a regular occurrence though, royal mail should give them a tool to help them get post into letterbox without having to stick their fingers through. Dogs aren't entirely to blame because they are just trying to protect their territory/family.

[RunningFromInsanity]

[quote Littlemeadow123]@RunningFromInsanity

And I don't believe you know the first thing about dogs.

This is the first time that the OP's dog has bitten somebody. It wasn't an unprovoked incident. The postman essentially intruded on the dog's property. He was trying to protect his home and his family. So no, this incident does not make the dog dangerous.

I can tell that you are a hysterical dog owner who thinks any dog who so much as looks at someone the wrong way is dangerous. I'm just thankful I only have to encounter such narrow minded people on mumsnet.[/quote]
I’m a dangerous dog adviser. Literally. It’s my job to advise police on DD cases.

I get what you are saying that this dog isn’t a ‘dangerous dog’ by nature, by technically by law it is. For example I’ve seen a case where a puppy jumped up (out of excitement) and scratched someone’s leg. The victim was elderly and developed an infection. The case was taken to court (not by me) and the dog was deemed to be dangerously out of control cashing injury, and had a contingent destruction order placed on it.
The law is NOT on the side of the dog on this.
There is only a very small leeway for the ‘intruding/trespassing’ defence and postman do not fall under it.
For example, if your dog bit someone who was breaking into your shed, you could be prosecuted for having a dog dangerous out of control. The private property only applies to those unlawfully inside the house.

I’m not saying this case will be taken to court, I’m just saying it could and if it did, then the owner would be found to be guilty of having a dog dangerously out of control.

A better option would be the police do a community remedy whereby the owners put measures in place to ensure it can’t happened again, ie aether box guard/gate/external postbox.

[Littlemeadow123]

@RunningFromInsanity

And I don't believe you know the first thing about dogs.

This is the first time that the OP's dog has bitten somebody. It wasn't an unprovoked incident. The postman essentially intruded on the dog's property. He was trying to protect his home and his family. So no, this incident does not make the dog dangerous.

I can tell that you are a hysterical dog owner who thinks any dog who so much as looks at someone the wrong way is dangerous. I'm just thankful I only have to encounter such narrow minded people on mumsnet.

[Littlemeadow123]

@TimeWastingButFun

Big difference between a dog nipping some who has been dopey enough to put their fingers through a letter box and a dog that runs up and viciously attacks someone unprovoked. Think of it from the dog's point of view. Someone invaded their house. Their safe haven. He wasn't being aggressive, he was being defensive. And yes, cuts to fingers can bleed a lot. Definitely not a mortal injury.

My dad sometimes posts flyers for a company and he has had his fingers bitten before. He has just pissed himself laughing at the idea that the dog 'attacked' him.

[RunningFromInsanity]

[quote BluebellsareBlue]@RunningFromInsanity
A worrying post? A strange post? Don't be so infantile, actually don't be such an idiot!
She said the dog will be considered a dangerous dog. No it won't unless it is named under the DDA. It may be considered dangerously out of control, which of course it wouldn't either under the circumstances, but it will not be considered a dangerous dog as defined by the Act.[/quote]
I think you’re getting confused between an illegal breed and a dangerous dog.
Section 1 deals with the 4 illegal breeds
Section 2 deals with exempting those breeds
Section 3 deals with dangerous dogs of any breed.

And At what point did I say stabbed??? I changed it to stabbed because you equated slapping a hand with a dog biting it. Which is ludicrous. The hand was punctured and bleeding, more akin to if a human had stabbed it, in your example. Which would be looked at as assault.

I don’t think you are a police officer, and if you are I am very sceptical and worried that you don’t think a dog bite would be classed as sect 3 of the DDA, and that it doesn’t count if it’s on private property.

[vanillandhoney]

Not an attack?

No, it's not an attack. An attack would be if he launched at someone in the street and bit them unprovoked.

That's not to say it's not serious, but it's not an attack either. Postmen should know better than to shove their fingers inside someone's letterbox!

[Floralnomad]

It’s not an attack , dog saw fingers and grabbed them , I should imagine that the posties natural reaction is to pull back and that’s probably made the damage worse .