Neutering dog at 6 months due to daycare?

[Extraordinarymagic]

Hi all, I have a 5 month old cockapoo. He started daycare two days a week and loves it and we might up it to three days a week as a result. However the daycare won’t take any dogs unneutered over the age of 6 months. So we really need To make a decision on this.

We don’t actually have to do it as we’re both working from home due to covid for another few months so we could just pull him out of the daycare however it’s very hard to find information on whether it’s a good idea to neuter him at 6 months or wait and if so how long.

Does anyone have any ideas? I’m going to ask vet but with covid we can’t really get in there to have a proper discussion.

Does it actually matter when neutered? For context of his personality he’s very good with children and loves people in general and very happy pup. Easy to train and very affectionate. He was wary of other dogs at first but the daycare have done a great job socialising him to all sizes and say he’s a lot happier. He doesn’t like being left on his own in the house but sleeps in his crate downstairs alone from 11-6 and randomly is happy out in the car on his own if we pop into the shop so he doesn’t seem particularly anxious bad if we try leave him during the day in the house alone.

[BigSpringy]

No problem. As with almost all studies there are loads of caveats, such as small sample sizes, so it won't be the whole truth. But interesting reading nonetheless.

[Cocoaone]

@BigSpringy That's really helpful, thank you!

I've read lots of opinions mentioning delaying neutering for Dachshunds, and our pup is getting close to 6 months now, so it's been on my mind.

That paper shows little evidence that there's a difference when the neutering is carried out. I'll just ignore the overall incidence of IVDD at 38%

Hence we are being very careful with no stairs, ramps to allow her on and off the sofa. Fingers crossed she's in the lucky 62%....

[BigSpringy]

For those interested in this kind of thing - an interesting study into physical impact (or not) of neutering on different breeds.

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fvets.2020.00388/full

[DaisyArtichoke7]

Our Cockapoo puppy is being done next week. Our vet advised us to wait until he is 9 months which he will be this weekend.

[BigSpringy]

Testosterone has two key impacts on behaviour:

1. It increases confidence
2. It lowers the threshold for aggression

So, in theory lowering the testosterone levels in a dog would make them less confident. So, if your dog is under confident already then there would be a theoretical risk of making this worse.

It would also raise the threshold for aggression so, in theory, your dog would be require a higher escalation of situation before they used an aggressive response. So a confident dog who used aggression freely might be helped by having the threshold raised. BUT aggresion tends to be used in situations of fear so it's not often a confident dog uses aggression.

Some studies seem to support the above by showing correlation between early neutering and fear/fear aggression. However it is vary hard to show one causes the other because it may be that fear aggressive dogs are more likely to be neutered (not the other way round). One study sought to eliminate that risks by excluding dogs that were neutered for behavioural reasons but this still required the owners to state it as a reason and many times people won't, or it forms just a small part of their reasoning.

Moreover, a couple of small studies seem to link neutering with LESS fear aggession. Which is confusing :)

I thin the answer is that life is never as simple as one way or another. Both confidence and aggressive response are multifactoral and cannot simply by tied neatly to testosterone levels. As pet owners, all that can be asked of us is to make the best decision we can with the information we have.

That means considering behaviour impacts but also thinking abiout the physical risks and benefits, the safety elements (e.g. neutering does reduce roaming and humping - but so does training and fencing - but not always), risk of unwanted breeding etc.

[vanillandhoney]

It's interesting and I think there are valid arguments either way.

I'm not a professional, but from what I've read and looked up, my theory is that if a dog is nervous or anxious, neutering will probably make it worse (or at least, it won't help), whereas if your dog is happy and confident anyway, it probably won't make much of a difference either way.

[Somethingkindaoooo]

This has been eye opening.

I got a rescue dog ( now 14) as a pup. He was neutered at 6 months by Dog's Trust. They just got in touch and said it was time, and I didn't question it.

My dog has been fine. He was definitely starting to look for lady dogs, so at the time I thought it was right.
Interesting - all the points pp raised

[lancashirelady]

One if my dogs is a 5 year old colliepoo who was neutered at 6 months old has no behavioral or confidence issues at all. All my Male dogs have been neutered early and never had a reactive or confident dog at all.

[Ginger1982]

Our Jack Russell was neutered at 6 months on the advice of our vet. 2 years later we had to have him put down due to extreme, off the scale aggression. Were the 2 related, who knows? If we hadn't had him neutered, would he have been calmer or would the aggression been even worse? Maybe it has nothing to do with it at all. But I do wonder sometimes. I would definitely do more research next time.

[vanillandhoney]

@Mostlylurkingiam

People are so anti- neutering on these boards! Most rescue dogs are neutered as puppies to prevent unwanted pregnancies and more puppies in the world which is the responsible thing to do. All our dogs have been done early as rescues and never had any issues.

I'm not against getting dogs neutered - I am against getting it done early because it's more convenient for a business owner that your dog is neutered though.

There are increasing amounts of evidence saying that you should wait until your dog has finished physically maturing before you get them neutered to ensure healthy bone development (amongst other things).

It's different with females as they can develop pyometra if they're not spayed which can ultimately be fatal. Male dogs don't have the same issues with coming into season.

[okiedokieme]

My vet suggested between 9&12 months for medium dogs, assuming no behaviour that is requiring it sooner

[Mostlylurkingiam]

People are so anti- neutering on these boards! Most rescue dogs are neutered as puppies to prevent unwanted pregnancies and more puppies in the world which is the responsible thing to do. All our dogs have been done early as rescues and never had any issues.

[vanillandhoney]

[quote Sitdowncupoftea]@vanillandhoney I've had all sorts of dogs all my life all lived into their senior years all neutered without any adverse affects. The dogs I have now are huskies x malamutes. I had one done at 6 month old as basically ones his bit are formed they can be done. I dont see the point delaying it. If your not breeding them get them done. I'm on a waiting list as present for my pup. As for the lack of testosterone affecting confidence never had that in many of my dogs ever. My dogs are not timid no fear in them whatsoever. Mine were laid out watching the thunder and lightning last week.[/quote]
There are arguments either way - ultimately it's down to personal preference, but I don't think there are many good reasons to get it done before the dog is fully grown and sexually mature.

You say yours aren't fearful - but mine was neutered at 18 months and he isn't fearful either, so it's not really evidence either way, it's just luck of the draw isn't it? Some dogs will be neutered at 4 months and live long healthy lives, others will experience a lifetime of anxiety and joint problems.

As long as the owners is informed of all the pros and cons, it's ultimately their choice. There are valid arguments on both sides.

[Sitdowncupoftea]

@vanillandhoney I've had all sorts of dogs all my life all lived into their senior years all neutered without any adverse affects. The dogs I have now are huskies x malamutes. I had one done at 6 month old as basically ones his bit are formed they can be done. I dont see the point delaying it. If your not breeding them get them done. I'm on a waiting list as present for my pup. As for the lack of testosterone affecting confidence never had that in many of my dogs ever. My dogs are not timid no fear in them whatsoever. Mine were laid out watching the thunder and lightning last week.

[BiteyShark]

I neutered my dog (working cocker) 10.5 months of age.

Tbh one of the factors of doing so was because we relied on dog walkers/daycare and whilst there had been no stipulations requiring neutering from my current one I was mindful that others wouldn't walk my dog in groups etc and as I didn't have family on hand I needed backup/secondary dog carers for unexpected illness and holiday cover.

I had discussed it with my vet and they were mindful that it wasn't recommended if they were still growing physically nor if the dog had shown dog/human fear aggression or other behavioural issues.

Ideally I would have waited until he was 1 year old having read all the research myself but for practical reasons it was done a little earlier.

[Extraordinarymagic]

@vanillandhoney this is definitely what we thought. If they’re recommending it it must be the right thing to do. We also choose this daycare for excellent reviews and just lovely people running it. Pup is so happy there he legs it in every day. At least we are not stuck given we’re both working from home until Christmas Id say.

@Sitdowncupoftea what types of dog do you have and you haven’t seen adverse effects from neutering at 6 months?

[Sitdowncupoftea]

I don't think vets are neutering at present due to covid. I have a pup I'm awaiting neutering. Normally I get them done as soon as possible. Personally you will get a different answer from people regarding neutering. If your not breeding your dog then neutering is best. My other dog was neutered at 6 month old. I've always had my dogs neutered with no issues the younger the better.

[vanillandhoney]

@Loveablers

I’ve never heard of that before? No day cares in my area have ever required any dog to be done?!

Sadly, plenty have that as a stipulation. Presumably to prevent things like unwanted pregnancy, marking and other behaviours associated with entire dogs.

Lots of the ones we looked around refused to take un-neutered males. It makes me quite angry because a lot of people will assume the daycare have their dogs' best interests at heart and will dutifully neuter their dog, and could end up with all sorts of problems further down the line.

[muckandnettles]

I was told a similar thing by one daycare centre when I was looking around for my puppy to get some social time with other dogs - I was really disappointed as I had chosen this one from good reviews etc, but I don't want to neuter my dog unless I really have to and certainly not at 6 months. I rang another daycare place and they said they don't require it at all, they thought it was quite shocking. So it's not a general thing.

[Loveablers]

I’ve never heard of that before? No day cares in my area have ever required any dog to be done?!

[Loveablers]

You need to look for a new day care!!! This is disgusting

Dogs should not be done that early. There’s literally NO reason for a dog to be done so soon unless it’s life saving.

Please find a new day care.

[Whoknowswhocares]

You can find any info you care to on the internet. Some right, some wrong.
Ask 3 vets, you’ll likely get a different answer from each. It’s a minefield, but there is very little evidence that later neutering at 18-24 months has any ill effects. There is plenty to suggest that earlier is a bad idea.

[Extraordinarymagic]

Sorry quote “ Medium sized dogs (10-25kg at adult weight) should ideally be neutered from 6-9 months old. ”

[Extraordinarymagic]

I was just reading this article which says 6-9 months is when you should neuter a medium sized dog. www.briarhillvets.ie/neutering-the-why-and-when-we-do-it/

So maybe that is why the daycare say 6 months. I think we will definitely be able to manage ourselves with some working from home until he is 12 months so that would give him a few months past what that vet is recommending anyway so hopefully it will be ok.

[Extraordinarymagic]

I will look into other day care - it’s such a shame though as this place really are excellent. I think we will wait till then mention it to us and then see if they will consider keeping him on. They said their business has been impacted by covid so if they have fewer dogs/all male or neutered dogs it might be ok.