Strong Disagreements with DP Regarding Training

[Bornin1989]

Hi all,

I'm a long time lurker, and have been considering writing this thread for a long time now, but I've been pushed to my wit's end.

My partner and I got two puppies just before the start of lockdown (we're in the UK). We discussed beforehand about training strategies and it became apparent we were a bit different in terms of what style we would use (I am pretty much 99% reward based training and 1% "punishment" in the form of a sharp "No!" if things get too much or too boisterous). My partner is against reward based training, at least with food, and is very much "I AM TOP DOG - MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY", but this was totally downplayed at the time. In our discussions pre-puppy we said that we would go for the reward based more and keep punishment to a minimium. I also said to him that if he ever, ever rubs the dogs nose in its business (something he said he saw as a good strategy for teaching a dog not to pee or poo inside), then I would leave him. Thankfully he hasn't done that... but he didn't handle it well at all (I'll go into it in a mo).

I booked dog obedience sessions with our local Dogs Trust, and we managed to attend the introductory session before the lockdown properly started. My partner came out of the introductory session feeling happy and confident that positive rewards actually work and started to "see the light". Now, due to restrictions, we have not been able to attend any of the actual training sessions and our puppies are now 7 months old. One of them has a more nervous disposition and more separation anxiety than the other, which seems to be getting a little worse.

Anyway, if I had known what my partner was REALLY like with dogs (I only ever had reference when we have looked after other people's dogs, he was always lovely, kind and gentle with them), I would NEVER have agreed to getting the puppies.

As an exampe, if the dogs don't do as they're told, they are dragged by their scruff, yelping, to their bed. They both get yelled at, they get yanked HARD on the lead if they aren't walking to heel. Another annoying thing is that my partner thinks that they should be off lead as much as possible despite there being various issues with that (cyclists, pedestrians, other dogs that might be nervous). He once let them out of the car into a CAR PARK in the city with no leads on - I went nuts and he told me the dogs need to be trusted... they were about 4 months old and god knows what they would have done if they saw a pigeon or something the other side of the car park....

He criticises other dog walkers for having their dogs on the leads if the dog is nervous - now I agree that it's often better to have dogs loose to reduce anxiety, but some dogs are on leads and need to be kept separate from loose ones for good reason, they could be rescues, on heat or whatever reason that they do not need to justify to my DP.

Any time I try to interject with his training style, I'm told "well I've had dogs all my life, I know what I'm doing". I get completely shut down: "I don't want an argument about this!" (to my reply of "I'm not trying to argue, I just want you to listen to what I've got to say"... then follows the argument...").

It's true, I've only had one dog myself, but I spent months and months researching about training and what to do and what not to do, as well as attending puppy classes with that particular dog. I can get the dogs to do my command by having small treats in my hand, but I've been told we're "not allowed to use treats anymore" because "they won't do as they're told if you don't have treats". I can also command them to relatively good success without the treats.

My nervous pup is getting more nervous when he's around, and I get told off if I don't act "harsh enough" (e.g. yesterday we were keeping the dogs outside as an excercise in separation and I was gently holding nervous dog's head out of the way of the door whilst I went to shut it and I happened to say calmly "come on, stop pushing me, it's OK" and was told I need to YELL at him to get him to do what I want... I wasn't even trying to command him, I was trying to act calmly for him. I'm expected to be yelling and grabbing and "putting the dog in his place," which 1. I have refused to do, and 2. I would absolutely hate myself to the core if I did that and 3. it's fucking embarassing if anyone sees, I look like an animal abuser!

Whenever I have looked at "How to stop X behaviour" it's generally about being calm, ignoring undesireable behaviour, rewarding good behaviour, giving lots of attention and stimulation etc. Whenever I've shown him the multiple, multiple websites and advice regarding rewarding behaviour being good for the dogs and building their confidence through play and calm interactions, he claims he just knows best. Even when the websites CLEARLY state "DO NOT GRAB/INTIMIDATE YOUR DOG, IT WILL MAKE THE BEHAVIOUR WORSE".

The only time he has listened is when I called the Dogs Trust trainer in an absolute panic because after the dog pooed inside, I saw him grabbing him by the scruff, "showing" him the poo - not rubbing his nose in it and therefore still sticking to my zero tolerance rule. This caused yelping and fearfulness in the dog, but according to him, he's "Just playing up and being dramatic". The trainer talked us through what the best options are for stopping him from pooing inside - which he accepted and the behaviour stopped.

I feel like I've failed as an owner, I feel I have no voice or power in how these dogs are treated outside of the way I treat them (with love, patience, compassion, calmness), and I am incredibly disturbed by my DP's transformation from what I've seen with other people's dogs as a massive dog lover to some kind of dominance fiend.

Do we know when puppy classes will open again? I'm hoping someone with more authority than me can show him how much damage he's doing. I need my DP training ASAP.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness here, I'm in a highly anxious state, I'm supposed to be working from home but needed to get this off my chest so I can concentrate. Suggestions welcome.

[TalkingOutOfMyBottom]

Can you imagine what he would be.like with children?!

[PossiblePoodleParent]

@Bornin1989 I've just read this thread and noticed that you never came back to update... how are things now? Please give an update if you can.

[Derbee]

You need to leave him. Either take the dogs with you, or ask the DogsTrust to Rehome them.

He has shown himself to be abusive. You never know what it will take for an abuser to show their true colours. Sometimes it’s a new job, sometimes it’s marriage, sometimes pregnancy. Sometimes it’s clearly pet ownership.

Leave him and get away. He won’t change

[Honeyroar]

I wish the OP would update. I’m worried for her and the dogs.

[midnightstar66]

I'd suspect that even if it stops in front of you that it will continue behind your back because he'll be stopping to appease you not because he thinks it's wrong!

[LochJessMonster]

Can I ask what you hope to get out of this relationship OP?
Even if he does stop dragging them by the scruff, why has it taken months of you literally crying and begging?

It’s not normal for him to completely dismiss your opinion and call you emotional/weak etc.

A solid relationship doesn’t involved begging.

Most partnerships are exactly that- a partnership.
If I went to my partner and explained how deadly serious I was about an issue, even if he didn’t understand or agree with it, he would see that it was that important to me and go along with it. Because he loves and respects me.

Yours doesn’t have any respect for you at all. How sad.

Even if he does change his behaviour about this, surely this isn’t the kind of man you want to waste the rest of your life on?

[Innitogether]

Gosh, this was a hard thread to read. OP, your DP is a vile bully, to both the pups and to you. I’m getting a JRT pup next week. I pick her up on Tuesday and we start zoom puppy training classes on the Thursday, she’s going to hit the ground running. There are zoom classes available and as they are online they don’t necessarily need to be local (although that would be better so you could do socialisation catch up classes at some point). Honestly, my heart hurts at the thought of the distress your poor pup is in being around a human he fears. I’m glad you are tackling this. Please be strong for the sake of your dogs. Never imagined I’d be tempted to a LTB on a puppy thread 😢

[DorisLessingsCat]

Are you okay OP?

[yellowsunset]

What exactly do you see in this man? I worry your standards are so low that you still find attractive.

[JesusInTheCabbageVan]

Also I'm sorry to say that I really think you should re-home them. Given how he is treating you, how do you think we would treat them if you were out and he was inside with the dogs? On a walk when you aren't there? I'd bet my bottom dollar he'd carry on exactly as he is now. You can't be there 24/7.

Exactly this. He will never change - he's already made that abundantly clear.

[DuaLipa95]

Have you heard from dogs Trust yet OP

[FATEdestiny]

How old are the pups now?

[NiceViper]

He's then said I'm emotionally unstable

Keep the puppies and rehome the human

He made all the right noises about puppies, then has abused them frequently and been an appalling shit to you.

Do not get pregnant by this man.

[midnightstar66]

but some breeds (hounds) would not even bond with their owner if treated like that, and behave worse (and be depressed)
We have a Jack Russell pup and I've heard the same about them too. I've been so clear with the Dc about how they can and cannot act when puppy is getting carried away incase they were to hurt her trying to stop her hurting them when playing. Massive supervision needed too!

[sillysmiles]

@Bornin1989
It is important that you do everything to protect your pups, and not just the quieter one.
But also, recognise how he is treating you now. There is no point in listening to what he is saying or promising but look at what he is doing. Past behaviour being the best predictor of future behaviour.

[bookcooklook]

Also I'm sorry to say that I really think you should re-home them. Given how he is treating you, how do you think we would treat them if you were out and he was inside with the dogs? On a walk when you aren't there? I'd bet my bottom dollar he'd carry on exactly as he is now. You can't be there 24/7.

[RoLaren]

I could cry. Do you want him to treat your children like this?

[Pikachubaby]

What breed are they? It is not a good way to train any breed but some breeds (hounds) would not even bond with their owner if treated like that, and behave worse (and be depressed)

[bookcooklook]

OP I'm sure you say further up that he isn't a misogynist but I would look again at how he treats you. "You're too emotional" is classic misogyny. There is no problem with HIM, it's all YOU because you're a silly woman. Youre just a dumb lady getting all emotional, ruining things, getting everything wrong because you won't bow to his superior ways. In his world, all the responsibility is on you and none on him for his awful behaviour.

His is showing you what he really thinks of your feelings and knowledge. He is dismissing and disrespecting you. Be very careful OP, abusers don't show themselves for years sometimes and this is a little flash of who he really is.

[Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel]

As an exampe, if the dogs don't do as they're told, they are dragged by their scruff, yelping, to their bed. They both get yelled at, they get yanked HARD on the lead if they aren't walking to heel.


So your partner is an animal abuser then. How are you still with him? If any man laid a finger on my pets they'd be picking their teeth up on the way out the door. Luckily for DH he's an animal lover.


If you keep these poor bloody puppies/he stays , you are also an animal abuser because you're complicit. Imagine what he does to them when you're NOT there.

You must get him out or take them to where he can't get near them. What a fucking CUNT. I'm fuming.

[vanillandhoney]

[quote midnightstar66]@vanillandhoney I think you've misunderstood. I don't think these dogs were rehomed from dogs trust? OP has been using their puppy training services and hoping they can talk some sense in to her DP - which isn't really their job. [/quote]
Yes, I understand that.

What I'm saying is that if OP decides to rehome the dogs via the Trust, due to the circumstances, they may say she cannot rehome another of their dogs in the future.

[hiredandsqueak]

How can you live with or find an animal abuser attractive? Why is your self esteem is so poor that you would set the bar so low OP? I'd hazard a guess that it's not only the puppies who have suffered at the hands of this man. You need to leave with the dogs or at least surrender the dogs to a rescue and never ever procreate with this vile man because he is showing you just how he will treat any child he fathers.

[AmazingAardvark]

OP, that’s a terrible position to find yourself in with someone you have built a life with. It sounds like he has an image of himself as a “Dog Whisperer” and is insisting he is right because to admit otherwise would destroy that self-image and force him to admit that’s he's been abusing them. A worrying lack of self awareness.

You’re doing the right thing involving Dogs Trust and considering rehoming them/leaving him. Of course, it’s easy for strangers online to say LTB, and he will say it’s ridiculous splitting up over a dog, but if you want kids this is a pretty bad sign for how he’ll react when you disagree on parenting.

Not to say he will abuse a child, but if you can’t discuss things calmly or trust him to respect your opinions, what hope do you have of parenting effectively together?

Will you have to get a doctor to speak to him before he’ll agree not to let baby sleep on its front/eat whole grapes/be left unattended in the bath? How will he handle a defiant child or one with special needs?

I’d be stopping any baby plans immediately and taking some time to reflect, even if you aren’t ready to leave yet.

[midnightstar66]

@vanillandhoney I think you've misunderstood. I don't think these dogs were rehomed from dogs trust? OP has been using their puppy training services and hoping they can talk some sense in to her DP - which isn't really their job.

[TheDogsMother]

I'm afraid this kind of behaviour to animals would be enough for me to end the relationship. However much he thinks he 'knows' about dog training no decent human being should frighten and hurt these defenceless animals. Even aside from this the way he is shutting you down despite the research you've done and the evidence you can produce. Its cruel to the dogs and disrespectful to you.