Puppy being aggressive towards DS

[Opoly54]

I have contacted a behaviourist, I’m just waiting for a reply but thought I’d come here for advice in the mean time.

Our pup is 8 months old, spaniel/terrier cross breed. Over the last few weeks we’ve seen some behaviour towards DS that looks aggressive.

The first incident was when DS startled him awake, he was obviously scared and growled/snapped the air. I take full responsibility for that and had a long talk with DS about respecting pups space, leaving him alone when he was sleeping etc. That was about a month ago. Over the last week or so we’ve had a few incidents:

-he growled at DS when DH hugged him on arriving home from work
-growled and snapped the air at DS when he approached DH sitting on the sofa with pup next to him

This happened last night and so today I asked DS to come into the kitchen and give him a treat, he jumped at DS again growling and snapping.

My plan is to get DS to throw a treat on the floor for him everytime they’re in the room together. To not allow pup on sofa to sleep or sit next to DH and for DH not to hug DS in-front of pup (whilst we’re dealing with this at least).

DS is calm around pup, doesn’t rough and tumble with him but is obviously now feeling nervous around him.

Any suggestions or experiences gratefully received! I’m really worried about this and I’m desperate for things not to escalate and to do the best by our puppy.

[princesstwinkle]

@Opoly54 that's absolutely fine. He's happy to see you and wants tickles.

[Opoly54]

The wagging tail as well. If he’s not lying down when we (DS included) enter a room he practically wags himself sideways.

[princesstwinkle]

@Opoly54 that sounds really promising. If it's an enthusiastic bum wiggle type wag you're good to go

[Opoly54]

Yeh that’s it-his whole body wags with him.

[princesstwinkle]

@Opoly54 then you're all good. Pup is excited and wants cuddles!

[Opoly54]

We’ve had 2 more incidents. Pup went up to DS, he lowered his hand to his side and pup did a lip curl. 2nd was this evening, pup just mooching about in the living room, DS walked in and he jumped up and snapped at the air.

I’m in bits over it. I haven’t got a clue what to do, waiting on a behaviourist referral from the vets and we’re now keeping them completely separated.

I just feel like a complete failure. I don’t understand what’s caused all this, we’ve done everything by the book. DS is so lovely with him and we all love him.

I just need someone to tell me what to do.

[frostedviolets]

I just need someone to tell me what to do
No one can.
All you can realistically do is keep them well apart 24/7 to keep your son safe.

As you have unfortunately seen, aggression problems can escalate alarmingly quickly.

I really think you can’t take advice from anyone online over this.
All you can do is wait for the behaviourist referral and keep them separate.

I hope your poor DS is okay.

[RottieLover95]

Sorry I don't have any advice , but I just want to say I hope you are all OK 💐

[Ylvamoon]

@Opoly54 I think you need a good dog trainer/ behavirst to teach your family how to interact with your dog.
It's not meant to be harsh, but what you described is probably a direct result in no direction from human, with a tense/ fear all eyes on dog / DC interactions atmosphere in the room. The dog reacts the only way it knows, defensive.
You need to de code your own behaviour to help and guide your dog in how to interact.
Good trainer/ behaviorist will help you.
And when all this covid-19 is loosened the rules, get yourself booked into dog training classes like good citizens dog to build on the trust & bond with your dog. KC has a search tool for local clubs, it's fun and inexpensive full of devoted doggy people.

[MumpsimusMaximus]

By the sounds of it the trigger point was your son startling the pup awake.

I’ve got a terrier breed and he’s very susceptible to startling. He’s very well socialised and highly trained but there’s definitely an “edge” to him that my collies don’t have.

If he lost trust in, and subsequently took against someone in the way your pup seems to have done I have no doubt he’d air snap if pushed.

The myth that “good” dogs would never growl or snap or even in extremis bite is just that; a myth.

Every dog has its limit in what it’ll tolerate.

Some breeds just are naturally more reactive/defensive/whatever you want to call it than others. With crossbreeds you never know which breed traits you’re going to get. It could be that this low tolerance for startle has come from the terrier-ness.

But I’m guessing.

For now keep them well apart. Don’t try to use food to coax the pup towards your son. Seek a good behaviourist (the recommendation of the DTAS FB group is a good one and that group can help you find a good behaviourist in your area).

Don’t panic.

[Opoly54]

Thank you for the replies. I’m feeling so much better after an hour on the phone with the behaviourist. I’ll just outline her points in case it helps someone in the future reading this with the same problem.

-she ran through the basics of adolescent dog development ie.hormones, brain development etc
-she thinks the trigger was the incident on the sofa, which he’s now generalising to DS at other times
-we need for that memory to fade
-she said to keep DS and Pup away from each other as much as possible for a week
-any time they do interact DS is to casually through bits of steak towards pup
-she’s recommended adaptil plug ins, change of food and a supplement called zyklene
-she talked about the conflicts in his breed the sensitivity of a spaniel combined with the quickness to react of a terrier
-we are to remain neutral if this happens again, no reaction at all.
-most of this has happened in the same room, we have 2 living rooms so she thought switching to the other room might be a great idea but that’s something to try later down the line
-she said to allow pup to rest and have quiet time as much as possible, more than you think they need. He does have 3 hours alone every morning as I’ve wanted to stick to our normal routine in lockdown but the afternoon is often a walk and then time in the garden (which he finds very stimulating-birds, dog barking, neighbours cats etc)
-she’s going to speak to me in a week, see how we’re getting on and we can then move on to a full assessment and plan if needed.

There was more but that’s the basics. I just feel better for having that conversation and I feel now that I’ve got someone guiding us through it.

Just to reply to an earlier poster, we have attended kennel club training, we train with him daily and have been continuing as best we can through lockdown.

I think I’ll keep updating this thread, for my own records and also as I said before, to help anyone who may be searching the same topics.

She said it is fixable, it is all within the boundaries of ‘normal’ puppy behaviour BUT it could escalate, she didn’t sugar coat it oh and she corrected me, I haven’t got a puppy, I’ve got an adolescent dog-let’s get the terminology right she said. I feel in good hands!

[LochJessMonster]

Sounds like great advice from the behaviourist.

I just want to say that you must be devastated about this and I really am sorry that it has gone this way.
When you get a dog, you imagine a lovely friendly family pet, family play time, walks, cuddling up on the sofa etc and that hasn’t happened here. It’s really disheartening.
Owning a puppy/dog is hard enough without any extra difficulties.
I’m really sorry OP.

[Opoly54]

Many thanks, I am gutted about it to be honest. We will put as much time and effort and money into this as we can manage. If we can’t resolve it then I know he has a loving home waiting for him at the farm we got him from. They’re a lovely family, children are all grown up. They have one grandchild but their house is huge with extensive grounds so they’d have no issue separating him when she visits. They only live a couple of miles away so maybe we could still take him for walks. I’m not saying I’m giving up on him but that’s our back up plan if all else fails.

[MumpsimusMaximus]

She sounds excellent.

It can be a shock when dogs behave like dogs.

As I said my terrier can be “sharp”.

You’ll read a lot from dog experts about how dogs move up the “ladder of aggression” from looking uncomfortable to lip lift to growl to air snap to actually making contact etc... not always. Some will go straight from brief, very subtle signals to way up the ladder really rapidly. Especially if they’ve had a real fright.

He’s never bitten - but he would. No question. If pushed. My collies - I’d trust to tolerate far more before they’d retaliate (obvs I wouldn’t expect them to).





They’re individuals just like we are.

[jinxpixie]

(bet you don't need your back up plan)

[Opoly54]

Thankyou jinx!!😭

[Opoly54]

I’m amazing at how little resilience I’ve got at the moment. After 9 weeks at home just me, DS and the dog (DH is a key worker, he’s been so busy but is always very hands on when he’s at home) I’ve just got no ability to cope left. DS goes back to school next week so I’m hoping that’ll give me some time to myself, the dog some quiet time and DS the company and routine he needs. I feel like I’m just failing everyone at minute.

[Opoly54]

*amazed

[Ihaventgottimeforthis]

DDog might be picking up on that too, a general tenseness in the people in the house, and be a bit more on edge than usual.

I'm trying to teach my DCs to recognise our DDog's body language, it's hard because they just want to swoop in and hug and pet him all the time.

[Opoly54]

Yeh I’m sure he is.

We’ve had a good day. We’ve got new food in for him-junk free and he’s loved it, food supplement is on its way, 2 x adaptil plug ins ordered, steak is fried and chopped and waiting on the landing so DS can take a few pieces to drop everytime he comes in the room. We’ve now upstairs for the evening and DH is with the dog. So I think I can safely say that we’ve had an incident free day, if we can continue like this for the next week then hopefully that memory with start to fade for him. He also had 3 hours quiet time on his own in the kitchen this morning, a much shorter walk at lunchtime and then another couple of hours in the kitchen this afternoon. It’s going to hard because it does limit our freedom in the house but it’ll be worth it if it works and we’re lucky that we’re a small family with DS who is old enough to understand.

[Ihaventgottimeforthis]

One of the most useful things I was told about dog behaviour is that stress and anxiety levels in dogs take a long time to dissipate, much longer than humans expect.
So multiple stressful incidents can build up over hours and even days, filling up the glass so to speak, and it can be something very minor that finally makes the dog spill over (such as just DS lowering a hand, or walking into a room quickly). So don't necessarily look at the individual incident for something that was done 'wrong', look at the days leading up as well. And more sensitive dogs can be stressed by things that we don't even notice.
It can take a long time for the stress and alert levels to return to normal, so what you are doing sounds good to me.

[RottieLover95]

How are you getting on OP?

[jinxpixie]

article on why some dogs wake up "aggressive"

[Opoly54]

Good thankyou. We’ve had no incidents so far. DS is being fantastic at really respecting pup’s space. They’re around each other on and off throughout the day but after our evening meal we leave DH and pup alone. Pup is enjoying the steak each time DS comes into the room but he doesn’t seem to be expecting it from him all the time.

We’ve got the usual adolescent dog behaviours on top of this, namely shit recall and pulling on a lead. However he isn’t showing any reactivity towards other dogs, cars, bikes, kids etc.

We had one incident yesterday. Walking through a wood a jogger ran up behind us, totally took us by surprise. Pup started barking at him and didn’t let up until he moved on (he stopped to chat). He jogged past is a second time and pup didn’t react so I thought that was quite good.

Thanks for the link jinx.

[Opoly54]

Just read the article, very reassuring. Thanks again Jinx.