Is my dog seriously ill?

[MiniMiniMiniBar]

Apologies in advance for the long post, will try to keep it as brief as possible.

5 weeks ago my previously healthy 5 year old mini schnauzer suddenly became very ill overnight - vomiting and bloody diarrhoea in the house. The vet diagnosed Acute hemorrhagic diarrhea syndrome and kept him in for four nights on fluids and intravenous feeding. After we took him home he didn’t seem to be getting much better and was refusing food so he went back to the vets where they took a stool sample, prescribed antibiotics and digestive care paste and sent us off again.

For the next week he seemed to get worse, crying to go out every hour, all day and night, where he’d mostly do a little diarrhoea or just squat and strain with nothing coming out and his head thrown back in a kind of ‘silent howl’.

The stool sample came back showing positive for campylobacter and after another period of vomiting and refusing food we went back to the vet and he was kept in for another four nights.

He’s now back with us with another, longer prescription for antibiotics (metrobactin 250mg) and the digestive paste. He’s making it through the night now (in a crate in the bedroom) but a few times during the day he has had diarrhoea in the house (he never does this) and has vomited most days over the past five days.

He’s obviously lost quite a bit of weight, and seems very depressed. His walks are hard as he stops every 10 paces to squat and strain (with just a tiny drop coming out most of the time) is a bit wobbly and sometimes will just stop and stare, refusing to walk. The diarrhoea has been constant for 5 weeks.

Things that would normally excite him like seeing a squirrel or fox or meeting another dog get no reaction now, and trying to engage him with a toy or ball at home get nothing either. He also needs to go in the bath 4 times a day to clean the poo from the fur at his back end.

On the vets advice we changed his food from wellbeloved to hills Id digestive care (the pebbles) and nothing else.

The vets seem to have given up a little - they keep saying he should be better by now and don’t seem concerned that he’ll only walk ten paces at a time or the silent howling. The bills are over £5000 now and though I’m trying not to think about it I will soon.

DP had lots of childhood dogs and is quite matter of fact about when dogs reach the end of their life but he’s my first dog.

Does anyone have any experience of an illness like this? Did your dog recover? Am I expecting too much of him?
Thanks in advance

[ClementineWardobe]

Change vets change vets change vets.
And again. Change vets. 5 k for some nights in and bloody antibiotics is appalling..
Absolutely no walks. He is in pain likely very undernourished now and weak. He needs referring. Poor boy. I'd have him in bed with me and I'd be giving him teaspoons of dog dioralyte too. He's not at the end of anything, he needs proper urgent medical help. Good luck

[ClementineWardobe]

I'd be onto Fitzpatricks... You may live miles away though. They might be able to advise over the phone though.

[Veterinari]

@ClementineWardobe

Which orthopaedic or neurological issue is it that you think Fitzpatrick's could help with?

I'd suggest an internal medicine vet myself. But perhaps being on telly qualifies you across multiple specialisms?

[Booboostwo]

I am astounded that your vet hasn't done an x-ray and ultrasound, this screams blockage to me.

I have a dog with IBD, symptoms creep up over time, e.g. one gastritis a month, then two a month, then one a week, etc. They don't tend to be acute as you describe.

I would go straight to a large veterinary hospital and see a specialist in internal medicine asap.

[ClementineWardobe]

No veterinari, I don't think that at all.
Fitzpatricks also have oncology, soft tissue, imaging, interventional radiology and rehab specialists.

They just pick up the phone on the TV show and say Fitzpatricks orthopedics and neurology... Guess that's where you are getting that informaion

A wee bit more goes on there and they are a very very well connected team of specialists.

[Veterinari]

@ClementineWardobe

Yup and all of those services support the orthopaedic and neuro referral services they offer. Their website specifically says Fitzpatrick Referrals is dedicated to the prevention and treatment of orthopaedic, neurological, soft tissue and oncological disease in small animals

None of which are specifically relevant to a dog with chronic GI issues. So why suggest there rather than an internal medicine specialist?
They just pick up the phone on the TV show and say Fitzpatricks orthopedics and neurology... Guess that's where you are getting that informaion

Oh yeah. Must be from all those tv programmes I've never watched

Where are you getting your referral recommendations from? I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest it's not your years of experience in the veterinary profession

[StudentHelp]

I wouldn’t go for Fitzpatrick Referrals.
I’d suggest internal medicine or even just an opinion from a 3rd vet that’s willing to investigate although I know their hands are tied right now

[StudentHelp]

@Veterinari
Sorry, just realised you said the same regarding internal medicine!

[ClementineWardobe]

Dear God what is the problem? Is the suggestion of phoning Fitzpatricks so terrible? What would be so difficult to understand about this idea, which was made to the struggling OP Veterinari - and not to you? I hope the OP makes further calls anywhere. I hope the dog recovers.

Has anyone ever mentioned to you quite how snotty your tone is Veterinari?

[ClementineWardobe]

And to @MiniMiniMiniBar I wish your schnauzer a full speedy recovery. I have two of this breed, the bowel problems can be tricky. Wishing you the very best

[StudentHelp]

@ClementineWardobe
I think veterinari is suggesting an internal medicine vet as their specialism includes GI issues, endocrinology, haematological issues so they’d be well equipped to cover all bases.
Fitzpatrick, although they do offer other diagnostic tests including endoscopy etc, specialise in neuro and orthopaedic.

[Hovverry]

Some vets give daft advice. My epileptic dog was having rapidly escalating fits and he told me to take her for a long walk. I didn’t as I could see she was about to fit again. She died that night.
Just saying vets can be wrong.

[Floralnomad]

OP , get a referral for the Queen Mother hospital for small animals at Hatfield , a friend had his dog treated there and they were excellent despite a poor outcome for the dog . Hope you some answers and your dog feels better soon .

[beautifulgirls]

Please check that they have excluded pancreatitis, it isn’t that uncommon in this breed.

[Veterinari]

@ClementineWardobe

You're right I was snotty and I apologise for that. But what is your basis for recommending Fitzpatrick's?

It's incredibly frustrating when people give the 'phone supervet' advice like it's some magical panacea for all veterinary ills when the problem is outside of the expertise of that particular referral centre, and the advice to contact them is totally inappropriate. By all means ask for a referral but there are many better and more appropriate options out there, and really recommendations should be made on the basis of something stronger than being 'on the telly'

[Veterinari]

Also to be fair your assumption over where I was getting my information from was pretty snotty too!

[TaighNamGastaOrt]

Poor wee soul.
You need a vet to refer you to Fitzpatrick's. I would definitely be looking for another vet as your dog is suffering. I would definitely not be walking him just now. Find a vet who specialises in dogs and is willing to try scans etc. The right vet is worth every penny.
I hope he's better soon x

[MiniMiniMiniBar]

Thanks for all this advice - I’ll take it to the (new) vet and hopefully we can get this moving and my boy better. I’m not close to the Fitzpatrick place or the Hatfield place but there is a place called the Beaumont Sainsbury animal hospital not too far away. Obviously it’s hard at the moment moving around but most vets seem to be doing video calls.
Fingers crossed - thanks all.

[Floralnomad]

Beaumont Sainsbury is the same group as the Queen Mother so hopefully should be equally good .

[Honeyroar]

Good luck. Let us know how you go on.

[Outtheforest]

It sounds very similar to when my boy had a blockage caused by his own guts twisting. The straining to pass tiny amounts whilst looking like hes in a lot of pain/howling is exactly what he was doing. The first vet dismissed a blockage entirely, second vet also thought highly unlikely as xrays where not showing much but after no improvement after 2 weeks as an inpatient doing every test under the sun they decided to opt for exploratory surgery after he was getting so weak they felt if the cause couldn't be found he would be dead in a few days. They found several inches of twisted necrotic gut. He was 6 months old at the time and I'm very thankful the vet was so determined to find a cause and wasn't just continuing to put it down to infection.
To this day hes considered a medical marvel as they don't know how he had clear xrays and wasn't already dead days before but hes now 12 months old and a complete lunatic

[eatanazurecrayon]

This will be controversial and I'm sorry but both our whippets had horrendous tummies. It turned out that they couldn't handle commercial dog food at all, not sure why. Still don't know why. If we give it to them days of diarrhoea follow alongside misery. We tried the vet and the paste and the meds etc and even started making them meals ourselves ...and eventually took them to a holistic pet shop. The woman at the shop was very knowledgeable and had a whippet herself. She suggested a raw diet which we would have preferred to avoid but hey ho. The first 3 weeks they ate nothing but green tripe - which stinks to high heaven - the shits stopped on day 2 and never returned. After 3 weeks of green tripe we started introducing complete raw meals one protein at a time and added in raw bones (ribs, nothing weight bearing) which they both love. One of them remains on this diet a year later. The other has butternut boxes but continues with the bones. Both in excellent health and solid stools. The green tripe is highly nutritious and gives their stomach back the bacteria it lost when ill. Not for everyone but worked for us at a time when we saw no other option. Hope you're we guy gets better soon ❤️

[pigsDOfly]

@MiniMiniMiniBar Hope you get some answers and a resolution for your boy. Poor little chap.

Let us know how you get on.

[wishingforapositiveyear]

I'm surprised your dog is eating dry food, it's not going to fix your dog but have you tried soft foods? My dog has some stomach issues and we got some vets sensitive tummy wet food and also did a few small meals rather than usual 2. We made plain rice and chicken and she had teeny amounts throughout the day. I would ditch the walks for now and just give constant access to the garden. My DDog is fine now but we've continued with several very small meals.

[pigsDOfly]

No I wouldn't be feeding dry food either.

One vet I saw at my previous vets' practice - dog with pancreatitis - kept telling me my dog should be on a low fat dry food - dog was and is, on a low fat wet food for sensitive stomachs, which has worked well for her - I'd already told him several times that dry food really aggravated her condition.