Our puppy is not recovering

[anxiousbundle]

He's a beautiful cocker spaniel- it's his first birthday in a few days.

Since December he's had 2 surgeries to try and fix his Luxating Patella in his right knee to no avail the first surgery was to attach a piece of plastic to hold the knee cap in place with 3 bone screws, the second was to relieve pressure on the wound 4 weeks later as he wasn't healing.

We went to the vets today and he's been given more anti inflammatory's and we're to go back in a week or so to see if the inflammation has gone down. The vet couldn't tell if he's healing or gotten worse as he inflammation was so bad. Poor boy yelped and cried when the vet was handling his leg examining it.

He's always been such a happy, bright dog- pleased to see me and OH, wagging his whole body even if we only popped out the room for 2 mins!
He's been crate bound for over 2 months now and it's killing me each day seeing his sad eyes. He can't understand we're trying to help him, all he must know is pain.

I feel exhausted from the whole ordeal and to make things even worse we've claimed all we can on our insurance for this condition.
Our vet wants another X-ray in a week or 2 which will cost around £250.

Then potentially another upwards of £1500 surgery.

I feel beaten down, I feel like we've failed him. I got so desperate this evening I've been emailing veterinary orthopaedic specialists that have treated luxating Patella successfully before literally begging for help.

It's hard work too, constant meds, making sure he doesn't leave his cage, ensuring when he has his 5min (he's not allowed more than that) wee and poo breaks outside 3 times a day that he doesn't jump up or run whilst on the lead. He barks and cries a lot, I sit with him all day when I can and stroke him, talk to him etc.

[anxiousbundle]

@Dragongirl10 that's a good idea- £210 out of pocket as I'm not sure if insurance would cover it? Possibly? Then we'd only have to pay the £95 excess?

[Dragongirl10]

sorry not sure how it works exactly but that is what l would do.....please update when you can

[anxiousbundle]

@Dragongirl10 I will do.

In tears at the moment, I've just taken him out to do his wee's and he's had a full on uncontrollable puppy strop basically. Jumping around, running. (All whilst on lead) and nipping me as he's so wound up about having little to no exercise or stimulation.

I can't keep dealing with this, the only option I can think is if he needs another surgery, to ask them to keep him in for a week or 2 and monitor his recovery there so we know he will have access to medication to calm him and he'll have people that will know how to handle him there.

At least he'll get 2 weeks of straight, good recovery time- here he just barks, goes mad when we take him down for a wee (we live in a top floor flat). To reduce injury and increase the chances of not needing another surgery afterwards.

[anxiousbundle]

The vets just say 'oh keep him in his crate for 2 weeks and just 5mins a few few times a day for a wee and poo'. They have no idea how hard it is to live with and control him whilst we're out! He doesn't listen to 'down' and 'stay' anymore like he did before he got ill.

He used to be so obedient and had amazing recall as he had plenty of exercise so WANTED to listen to us and get a reward.

[BiteyShark]

It's so hard to keep them quiet. We only had to keep BiteyDog quiet for three weeks at a time but that was hard.

What we ended up doing was dismantling one of the beds and putting the mattress on the floor and basically camped out in there apart from toilet breaks. I found this was much better because he didn't feel restricted, could simply step on and off the mattress to sleep and rest and was much calmer overall.

[Scattyhattie]

Medivet referrals east midlands has a great orthopedic surgeon & is very reasonably priced, If your anywhere near there.

Hospitalisation post op is often possible but can work out very expensive. If stairs an issue then someone like home boarder maybe better option.

[Dottierichardson]

Have you thought about a second opinion? My dog had this, our vet wouldn’t operate until she was two, as said needed time to develop and apparently easier to do at that age. She recovered in two and a half months. We took turns to supervise, carried her out to pee and used a sling to support her. Our vet was recommended by a local accredited behaviourist, is a recognised small animal practice and does pro bono surgical work for animal charities, and vet students do placements at their practice.

Vets like doctors/dentists vary in ability and expertise, it’s not necessary to see a mega-expensive vet to find someone with better surgical skills. Our first vet practice good on paper but not as good in rl. My dog has now been fine for years although now developing arthritis in that knee, but apparently that’s fairly common, and my other dog had the same issues at a younger age but had never had surgery.

[CatnissEverdene]

I think I'd want a second opinion on it, do you have any specialist orthopaedic vets in your area? Or ask around on some local FB pages or on a spaniel one to see if others recommend. I'm on several spaniel groups on there and it can be really supportive to get other owners experiences and input sometimes.

I've got two spaniels, they really are such high energy dogs, your poor boy

[Dottierichardson]

Our dog an active/hyperactive terrier breed, think this is also why vet made us hold off until she was a little older, as by then a little calmer, easier to keep rested. Did your vet say why necessary to do the procedure so soon on such a young, hyperactive dog?

Also, could look into the slings, it keeps the weight off the leg when peeing and so on…they’re technically for arthritic dogs but easy to find online.

So sorry you and your dog are going through this, hope things get sorted out for you both soon.

[anxiousbundle]

@Dottierichardson thank you, I having heard of slings but I'll certainly take a look.

The vets encouraged us to do it as soon as possible as it could get worse- pup also wouldn't have been able to keep walking on it either.

[anxiousbundle]

@CatnissEverdene none in our area- the surgeon we used for the surgeries wasn't a specialist orthopaedic surgeon either, but had had high success rates with this particular surgery, and he was a lot cheaper so we went with him. Wishing we had gone with Fitzpatrick or Abercrombie vets like our vet had suggested at the time😞 their prices are so high though and we thought he would need both legs done as we had been told at the time.

Thank you, he's been coping okay- he could be much worse behaved and I wouldn't blame him! It's horrid to see him acting out and not his usual self. He hasn't been on grass in months.

[anxiousbundle]

@Dottierichardson A second opinion does sound like a good plan, my partner is reluctant to go to any other vets though until we find out if he will need another surgery after the inflammation goes down. (1-2 weeks)
Also the money issue is making him second guess it too.

I'm sorry your pup went through the same, I'm glad your surgery was a success though! Yeah we've been told to expect arthritis in the future too. Poor dogs :(

[BettyBooJustDoinTheDoo]

Was your dogs luxating patella graded at first diagnosis? From my understanding it’s only if it’s graded at 3 or 4 that they may possibly needed surgery. My dog has LP which was diagnosed at about 8 months old,my vet was very keen to operate, went for a second opinion in the same practice and the other vet said no just see if she can live with it as surgery should be the last resort as the surgery itself could possibly cause arthritis in later life, my dog is 10 years old now and is fine the LP never got and worse and causes her no pain or problem. The reason I’m questioning this is I’m concerned that you have been led by your vet to have surgery when it may not have been needed? Are you able to access your dogs original diagnosis to see what grade the LP was? You may have grounds for a complaint against them if they did not give you correct advice?

[anxiousbundle]

@BettyBooJustDoinTheDoo I did read about grading but we were never actually told a specific one. Yeah we basically were scared by the vet into having a referral as they said he could get much worse if we left it- we said we'd find a vet to do it as the prices they were quoting for their referral partners were too high.

The vet we went with to do the surgery x-rayed him and said he definitely needed surgery but the other leg was find and not luxating (our local vets said that both were in need of surgery).

No mention of any grades :(
The vet that did the surgeries is also off for a week next week so we have no way of contacting him regarding the inflammation.

[anxiousbundle]

@BettyBooJustDoinTheDoo he was also never in any pain before the surgeries. Running around and hopping every now and again during walks when it Luxated out, but it always corrected itself after a few seconds. Now he's constantly on pain and whines and cries when the vet manipulates it to feel if it's healing.

We didn't even go to the vets at the time for that issue, we actually went because we thought he had something in his paw (kept licking it and basically looked really sad) and the vet did a leg examination and told us then.

[BettyBooJustDoinTheDoo]

Your symptoms of your dog pre surgery were exactly like my dogs, she would limp a bit and then it would correct itself, she never was in any pain, I am so sorry you are going through all of this, not only the awful time your little dog is having and the financial implications but also the awful stress and worry on you, I really hope that your vets operated in good faith but i am worried you may have been pushed into unnecessary surgery and maybe they should have had a wait and see approach as your dogs life was not in danger and was not in pain, I could be very wrong of course and I hope I have not caused you additional stress in highlighting this possibility, but if it is the case you were poorly advised I am wondering if you could have any recompense for the situation you are now in. I really hope that your little dog makes a full recovery soon, he obviously has very loving owners

[BiteyShark]

Be careful of going down the sunken fallacy route. Basing your decisions now on the cost of a possible future surgery on the other leg could just mean throwing more money and time on bad decisions.

Yes complications occur after surgery but I would now be concerned about them given the surgery was done by a non specialist based on cost ( that isn't a critism of you as you did what you thought was the right thing at that time but now you have more information and your dog isn't recovering as you had expected).

In your shoes I would go back to your original vet who initially wanted to refer elsewhere and ask them to refer you to their recommended specialist Center for a second opinion on the recovery. Get you DP to concentrate on getting this leg fixed. No good throwing good money on bad decisions. If you get a second specialist opinion and they say it's just a typical complication you will have spent little extra and have the confidence to continue. If they say things are wrong and need correcting you won't have continued to throw good money after bad.

[anxiousbundle]

@BettyBooJustDoinTheDoo & @BiteyShark Thank you both, I've made a plan:

-On Monday I will be calling to ask for a referral to the Fitzpatrick vets (our vets do refer to them)
-Wait a week and hopefully the inflammation will have gone down and we might have a Fitzpatrick appointment booked for near then (if they refer quickly!)
-request all details from our local vets and the vets that did the surgery relating to our dog and his condition.
-get the specialists opinion. I will be paying the £210 consultant fee out of my pocket, I only have £160 free this month so I'll have to find the other £50 somehow.
-ask specialist vets opinion on treatment so far
-I've found a negligence lawyer who does specialise in vet malpractice so I will be calling them if we decide there's something fishy going on and we may have been wrongly advised to have surgery. They provide a free initial phone call to advise if you may have a case or not.

[BiteyShark]

Sounds like a sensible plan.

[OrcinusOrca]

Good luck @anxiousbundle I hope you get on OK. Have you got any photos of the chap?

My small breed has luxating patella too. I got her as a rescue when she was 5 and the vet noticed it when she was 6. Sometimes she would be running around and suddenly yelp and hobble. We give her Yumove supplements and she is much better and doesn't tend to yelp, just hops on three legs when it pops out until it goes back in. She's 10 so not that old for a small breed but she's been a doddery old lady for a while, the vets think she has quite bad arthritis because of it but the Yumove seems to keep her ticking along OK.

Dogs hey! One of my big dogs has an immune problem and I had lifelong insurance but had to cancel it anyway because I was having to pay £286 a month to keep it! Sometimes you get bitten whatever you do. I now insure with Pet Plan, supposedly they don't hike prices in quite the same way as everyone else but as I switched the immune problem isn't covered so I fork out £120 a month for his treatment and then the Pet Plan. Makes you want to cry!

[Floralnomad]

I don’t think you have a leg to stand on with blaming the vet , your vet gave you advice and you took it , if you took it without going away and doing research or getting a second opinion then that’s hardly your vets fault . It’s also not your original vets fault that you chose to go to a cheaper option for the surgery . Sorry if that sounds harsh . The only way I see a vet being liable for this mess is if you can prove that the post op complications were due to the operation being bodged .

[Dragongirl10]

good luck with your plan op..

[anxiousbundle]

@OrcinusOrca I'm sorry to hear about your experiences :( poor pups! Yeah I guess it comes with the territory! Somethings bound to go wrong at some point!

Thank you, I'll attach a few pics..

@Floralnomad I know what you're saying- though we did get the second option from the vet that did the surgery, they did another examination and took X-rays before deciding to operate. Though they weren't specifically orthopaedic specialists unfortunately which I wish we'd gone with now!

They can be liable if they operated without good reason- e.g if the luxation would have been fine without the surgery. We have all the X-rays and notes from both vets so I'll get an opinion from someone at fitzpatricks if they refer us. Or misguided us just to get us to have the surgery. As that all equates to unnecessary harm to the dog.

[Floralnomad]

I’d hate to be a vet or doctor nowadays

[BiteyShark]

Getting a second opinion from a specialist vet will determine whether there are complications or issues that a 'general' vet simply wouldn't necessarily know about given that they will have seen far more cases and be far more experienced in that area. That's what I mean about throwing good money after bad as I wouldn't necessarily (continue to) pay for complicated brain surgery from a general surgeon if it was my own treatment.

As for negligence I wouldn't bring it up unless the specialist mentions anything as the first priority is get him on the mend and right now you just need to know if there is any more the specialist can do beyond what your general vet is advising.