How far in advance to contact breeders?

[Twerking9to5]

We’re looking to buy a puppy to join our family in July (I’m a part time teacher and summer hols would be a good opportunity to settle him/her in!). But how far in advance would your contact a breeder? Or would I just wait until nearer the time?

I’ve searched breeders in my area but so worried about how reputable they all are.

[Skihound]

Should also say she didn’t own the father.

[Wolfiefan]

And this is why disreputable breeders get away with it.
Dog I wanted.
Not actual breed or rescue that would suit our family but a made up concoction of two random breeds put together for no other reason than to make a bit of cash from cute puppies. Bonkers.

[Skihound]

We can’t stop people cross breeding (some day there are benefits) there have always been mongrels but maybe if buyers are more aware and know what to ask /look for the market for farmed puppies or puppies whose parents have not had health checks, and I am talking DNA blood testing not a vet check and bitches who are repeatedly bred, will decrease - prob never happen but would be nice

[Wolfiefan]

There are benefits when knowledgable breeders breed working sprockers to do a job.
Mongrels are an unknown mix. Not a cross.
Cross breeding can create its own issues. You can get the worst of each breed and the outcome is less predictable. (Poodle crosses for example are a groomer’s worst nightmare!)

[ferretface]

I think some of the angst about crosses is misplaced, every dog breed that exists now was selectively bred out of other breeds at some point in history. Plus there are many pedigree dogs that have been bred to the point where the breed is really unhealthy. We were looking at getting a Bernese at one point and I was so depressed to see that the breed on average in the UK have gone from a life expectancy of 10 years or more to a point where you can be lucky to get 8 years out of them.

However I agree that most cross breeders don't breed well or responsibly and you're likely to end up with something bonkers/possibly with the worst of both breeds and health problems to boot. And there's no guarantee they 'look' the right way.

An ethical cross breeder would health test both parents for the conditions that the respective breeds are prone to, carefully consider how they might go together and temperaments/use etc and what they were breeding for (some crosses are good in agility) and breed as if they were establishing a new breed type/line - so keep pups which can be bred from as a good example of what they are aiming for.

I agree that most breeders don't do this but I don't see why the idea in principle of crosses is such an issue. If you could find someone committed to the idea of developing cockapoo/labradoodle etc as a "breed" in its own right and with a clear idea of what they are aiming for and how to get there then to me that's okay irrespective of the lack of KC registrability etc.

[Detoxpup]

I would never have a doodle type dog but there are breeders of cross breeds who do take the breeding seriously.

They health check
They research both parents
They offer lifetime back up to the dogs they breed
They only breed a limited number of litters

equally their are very dodgy kc assured breeders.

You can not assume that all doodle breeders are puppy farmed

Puppy farmed would mean having a bitch having multiple litters no health checking, no support.

[Detoxpup]

haha didn't mean to imply the breeders were puppy farmed obviously meant that not all doodle breeders are puppy farmers

[missbattenburg]

For sure there are some good reasons to breed crosses - such as those using selected genetics to create a healthier strain of an almost ruined breed.

I think someone is doing so with dalmations to solve the uric acid problem. Also someone with English Bulldogs to produce a bulldog-type dog with a healthier form than the malformed bulldog is today.

That takes real knowledge of genetics and the lineage of all the individuals involved. Partnering dogs carefully to result in something better, not worse.

a clear idea of what they are aiming for

I agree with this. In all honesty, I struggle to see what a cockapoo brings that a cocker or poodle does not, for example. I could perhaps understand it more if someone was trying to breed a calmer, less energetic cocker - essentially trying to produce a good all round family pet. But if they were doing that, then a poodle is not the balance. Both breeds have similar "bad" sides so don't appear to offer anything further to each other.

Looks, I suppose. I know we're all influenced by looks to a certain degree but it would not sit right with me, if that's all there is to it.

All that said, there are so many cockapoos around now that maybe these dogs WOULD benefit from being recognised as a breed and included as such? It would open the way up for more responsible breeders and perhaps give the dogs a chance at the same protection that is offered to pedigree breeds today (though I realise that protection, even for pedigrees, does not go far enough and is too often ignored). Right now they are out in the cold and clearly suffering for it - too many people breeding to cash in rather than for the benefit of the 'breed' or the individual dogs.

Stabilisation of the breed would also likely to encourage more accurate information about them - the good and the bad - than just anecdotes of 'my aunt has one and it's the sweetest dog ever'. Potential owners could then find specific lists of health risks, temperament, exercise and grooming needs rather than reading up on 2-3 breeds and trying to guess bit their pup will inherit.

Dunno. Just seems to me like they are not going away so finding ways to do better by these dogs might be the way forward.

[Whitney168]

First and foremost, I am not fundamentally against any dogs, pure bred or cross bred, that are bred correctly - good conditions, good food, good socialisation and bred from healthy parents with sound temperaments. This is not a cheap or easy process.

I am vehemently anti puppy farm bred dogs that are produced in misery, and the vast majority of designer cross puppies are bred in this way.

If anyone can genuinely find a puppy like Detoxpup describes, then who cares what breed or cross it is, but it is extremely difficult for a member of the public who buys a puppy once in a blue moon to identify whether this is truly the picture or not.

I think some of the angst about crosses is misplaced, every dog breed that exists now was selectively bred out of other breeds at some point in history.

I see this argument so often, and I'm sorry but it is flawed. There is no doubt that every dog breed came about through selective breeding, but this was carried out by hard-nosed stockmen, with a job in mind, and with no compunction about removing individuals that didn't meet the brief from a breeding programme, through fair means or foul. No nancying about rearing poor do-ers either, survival of the fittest ensured a further degree of health.

This is not remotely the same as any Tom, Dick or Harry breeding first generation crosses with cute names, and with no progression.

Plus there are many pedigree dogs that have been bred to the point where the breed is really unhealthy.

Agree entirely, but at least there is data available and the option to a) not buy these breeds and b) use scientific health testing to select a breeder and a puppy to reduce the chances of issues.

There is certainly no guarantee in buying a crossbred puppy that it will magically be any healthier when it is bred from two parents of dubious origin with no health tests. Many farmed puppies don't even live long enough to succumb to genetic health issues, and even if they do many temperaments are unsound.

[Detoxpup]

Dog breeds always follow fashion you can almost name the decade to the popularity of the following breeds as they roll in and out of fashion. tbh the popularity of working cockers at the moment has made for some very dodgy breeding and dog theft it is not only cross breeds

Dalmation
Chocoloate labrador
doodles
working cockers
Huskies
frenchies

Why does anyone breed dogs?
Fashion and popularity will always be the reason why they are breed not sure regulation will make any difference. Look at the appalling breeding of pugs and GSD

[ferretface]

Whitney168 I don't disagree with you (and definitely agree that crosses aren't healthier) - what I am saying I guess is that form follows function and the poos/doodles etc could be developed specifically as a great family dog, medium to small size, trainability, low shedding curly coat etc - breeding for this purpose if done properly isn't so different to how breeds were originally bred for work - if the function here is a cute trainable family friendly dog then I could see how the poo 'breeds' could theoretically be developed along those lines. But I agree that this has to be done with a hard head and more of an eye towards developing the dogs than the money!

Also, there are plenty of breeds out there that can fulfil the brief of great family dog already (including the poodle) so arguably not necessary to develop something for this purpose.

Off topic here but I wish someone would outcross Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers or at least import some breeding stock as the lines in the UK are horrendous, health problems galore, super high COI. It's a lovely breed that deserves to be continued responsibly. Would love to own one but they are just too unhealthy.

[Ylvamoon]

Twerking9to5 - if you are really up for a doodle / poo x, have a look into the Tibetan Terrier. Right size, right temperament, lovely (supposedly non shedding) coat and best of all you are able to find a reputable breeder!