Dog is ruining my life

[eyelinerandbutterflies]

Partly a rant, partly a plea for useful advice.

Dog was "found" by Dh in an abandoned building as a puppy. Dh is soft and took it home. We went to the police and rang various dog charities but somehow he ended up staying (the dog, not DH.)

In many ways he's fine, friendly but good lord as he's got bigger he's become increasingly boisterous. He's now 6 and really hurts me. he does this thing of leaping up in affection/joy and sort of slamming your chest or belly with his front paws. He also scratches when he does that. Again not on purpose but still.

The barking - anything sets him off and he has a loud DEEP bark at 4 am. We now have two small kids (didn't have any when we got him) and it wakes them.

Can't afford behaviourists or anything but I am at my wits end! He's some sort of collie, we think.

[Zebrasmummy]

We have a very high energy terrier x and after many hours of training classes and frustrated trial and error, the thing i wish I'd figured out early on is that he will do his own thing unless I tell him what I want him to do. It isn't fool proof, but works a lot of the time. So if he's trying to get his head in the food him while I put stuff in it, I tell him to sit and wait and he gets a small treat in return.
Barking however . . . . . if you figure out how to stop that please let me know!

[billybagpuss]

Hi eyeliner, I’m currently training a 7 month collie cross and can fully empathise and relate to your problems.

First question, how much time do you have to devote to him? We are having 2 good 40 minute to an hour walks per day, she could do with more but s only a pup so worried about her joints.

She gets at least half an hour usually more practicing silly things, brain games, tricks, the kids are teaching her salsa, she’s learning to slam dunk a basketball (put ball in a hoop) and treiball, google it brilliant for collies. Even after all this she can still be annoying and have mad puppy hour when we want to sit and relax, love her to bits though.

Also where abouts in the country are you if SW pm me happy to support.

However in more practical terms chose a couple of behaviours you want to change and focus on them. The advice on stopping jumping is good, fold your arms and reward when all 4 paws are on the floor, and be consistent don’t let him get away with it.

As for the barking, ignore where possible, if he’s crate trained you could try a blanket over it over night so he feels safe and secure, make sure the heating isn’t on nearby though. Try not to reward barking by attention unless it’s needing a toilet break.

[Lucy001]

The jumping is easy to explain, harder to fix now that he's done it for six years! Eye contact is important for dogs, and the smarter they are, the more important they consider it. The bond between human and dog is formed by the release of oxytocin, created during eye contact. Exactly the same process as between baby and parent. If you aren't going to give him the eye contact, he'll try to make it himself.

Now you know why he does it, if you are consistent, he can be persuaded to change. When he jumps, turn your back. But before he jumps, you need to get him sitting every time you can, then give him a small treat and a head massage and look into his eyes. You should be able to start reducing the treats in favor of the massage and the look very quick - collies are quick off the mark. If everyone is consistent with him, it won't take long for him to work out that what he wants, the look into your eyes, comes when he sits quietly, not when he jumps. That look makes him feel happy. It isn't just about bonding, it also makes him feel good - his brain releases endorphins at the same time.

Never shout at a dog. What on earth is the point of barking at him to tell him not to bark?! See my point?

Barking is always a difficult one, especially if one can't hear the bark. There are different sorts of barks, tones if you like, that tell you what he's feeling and that is a clue to the best way to relax him. However, there does appear to be a clue in here - he barks at you when he doesn't get what he wants. That is one of the big tells of a collie that knows who is in control. It's him!

If he thinks that he gets to tell you off, that puts him above you in the pack order. If he's at the top of the pack, then he's constantly in high alert - it is his job to be aware of every noise and movement, and to decide whether it's ok or not. So extra training yes, but actually, very much focused on obedience - things that he must do to please you. He needs to see you step up and take charge - that's everyone in the horse, including children. He should see his place as after humans, all of them.

I've never found collars of any kind work. But I'm not convinced they aren't cruel either since I can't say that I'd be very impressed at having something squirted in my face

[Ylvamoon]

Hi,

You already have some useful advice.
I think you need to take him training class to socialise him properly.
If highly recommend that you get in touch with your local dog club. They will be able to help you and are often used to help with all kinds of problems.
They are a lot cheaper than 1:1 training with a "carer professional". And there is more than one trainer...
Have a look on KC website for a club.... (Your dog doe s not have to be registered.)

www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/findaclub/Default.aspx

[Vallahalagonebutnotforgotten]

I would not be working on the specific problems yet but looking at teaching a calm protocol at home.

When this kicks in you will find some of his behaviour will automatically stop and then leave you with specific issues to deal with. I would expect barking to be less just with him being calmer.

As you have already said no. turning, away pushing him off etc just winds him up even more.

He needs to work out that calm behaviour gets the reward and attention. If he is a collie type he will pick this up quickly but after 6 years of other behaviour getting attention you will need to stick with it for a while to have it as ingrained behaviour.

Simple first thing to do is when you are in the situation when he will jump up at you - drop treats on the floor near you. It is hard to jump up if he is rummaging for the treats on the floor.

Have a mat that is his put a treat on the mat, say nothing, he will go to mat and eat treat reward quietly with a treat on the mat, just slowly and calmly drop treats onto the mat. Initially at this stage he may find this exciting so say nothing and no eye contact.

He will start to seek out the mat and then you can up the anti and ask for a down on the mat. He is thinking, he is calm and over time he will default to a down on the mat.

You MUST always treat him at intervals when on the mat - if you do not want to or do not have time pick up the mat and remove it.

I would work at this for at least a week before moving on ( several short sessions a day, I would feed him all his evening meal in this way)


The more you reward this the calmer he will get.

If this works and is of interest to you I can go over stage 2.

[averylongtimeago]

There is a good fb group called "dog training advice and support" which is really good.

I also recommend dog training classes- you might have to look around to find one you like (I looked at several) but they can be really helpful. The one I went to was £6 per hour, others the same or up to £10 se not megabucks.

I took our last puppy, then started taking the older dog as well, they both loved it and all 3 of us learnt loads.

[Wolfiefan]

Cello maybe start your own thread?
OP if a behaviourist is out of the question (and be careful they’re not regulated) how about looking at the FB group dog training advice and support. Free advice from excellent trainers.
Would you consider fly ball or agility? Something to tire the dog both mentally and physically.

[Cello4]

Hello, Does anyone know of any holiday accommodation near South East area of England (self-catering) that would be available for 3 nights? Need to have an enclosed garden for two tiny dogs.

Hoping,
Thank you

[Haypanky]

Hello! Just a couple of thoughts. When he jumps up, turn your back. Ideally before he jumps but even when he's jumping would help. Then he's not getting attention for it, and also you are protecting yourself from scratches etc. Insist he's only greeted when he's got 4 feet on the ground, and then bend down to fuss him to encourage him to stay down there for his fuss. You can teach everyone in the house this tactic and even regular visitors. You could reinforce this with clicker training, which you can look up. If you don't want to use a clicker you can use a marker word such as 'yes' and use cubes of cheese as a high-value reward.

With the barking, hard one to correct through training as you're likely to be in a different room when it's going on. I second getting a white noise machine for the kids. I got one recently for about £16 from Amazon. Should help block out any barking so there not disturbed. Then you could also try a couple of gadgets to put the dog off barking in the first place. You can get a plug in gadget that emits a high noise which we can't hear but the dog can, which is set off every time the dog barks. Or you can get an anti-bark spray collar which sprays pressurised air (with/without lemon scent) when they bark.

Good luck 🐕

[NoSquirrels]

Collies need to keep track of their pack so even if you’re just outside the front door he’ll be wanting to round you up!

If your DH spends most time with him, get him to research and commit to some extra training. I bet he’ll take to it (dog, not DH!)

[eyelinerandbutterflies]

Thanks a lot!

DH often takes the dog to work with him, he's never left more than two hours. But it's true, you go out for five minutes, return, and it's like you've been to Siberia.

[BiteyShark]

Shouting NO gets him even more wound up.

I suspect shouting no just means to him you are joining in with his enthusiasm. I would try and turn away arms folded and ignore, or leave room until he stops and keep repeating this until he gets the message.

[NoSquirrels]

No need to apologise!

I think get your DH to investigate clicker training. Collies love a job - and if you guys work FT presumably he’s alone for periods of time, so then when his people pack are back home it is really exciting and he’s getting your attention - but doing it in the wrong way.

So if you can give him ‘jobs’ totire his brain out a bit he’ll need to demand attention in the undesirable ways less?

[adaline]

The jumping up is so hard to stop - mine is only a pup but he jumps, and because people think he's cute, they fuss him, so he does it because he gets rewarded with attention. It's a vicious circle.

Like a PP said you need to teach him that jumping won't get him anywhere - no fuss, no verbal communication, nothing. So cross your arms and turn your back, avoid eye contact. As soon as he has four paws on the floor, reward! Either with a treat, fuss or toy, whatever motivates your dog.

It's hard though, I know. We do this with ours but he still leaps up to fuss people who dare to make eye contact with him!

[eyelinerandbutterflies]

Thanks Hirples, will Google

[eyelinerandbutterflies]

That would have been helpful six years ago youlet

Dh wouldn't rehome him. Neither would I, on balance.

[HirplesWithHaggis]

You could try using the Jan Fennel Amichien method. It means changing your behaviour (and your dp's) but it really worked with my failed sheepdog, who was three years old when she came to us, had never lived indoors, had no manners... and became a fabulous family pet.

[eyelinerandbutterflies]

Certain noises - other dogs barking, loud traffic, lawnmowers, gun shots, planes, music, live videos ... you get the picture!

[youlethergo]

experience for a collie type
Sorry :)

[youlethergo]

You have the wrong dog for your family and you don't have the experience for a family. I would take the time and trouble to find him an appropriate home.

[eyelinerandbutterflies]

Fair enough Squirrels, sorry. It can be tricky in here sometimes. I mean, he's ours, DH loves him to bits, I'm fond of the daft mutt, but at the same time, we don't spend every waking moment worrying about him, you know?

[FiresideTreats]

Barking: agree with PP to use white noise or a fan at night to help mask noises.

Are there certain noises he reacts to? If so you need to desensitise him to these noises. If you can give some examples of what makes him bark I will try to suggest some things.

[eyelinerandbutterflies]

Cheers. he jumps up whenever he's excited. And he's excited a LOT

[NoSquirrels]

Oh I wasn’t having a go, OP, just wondering if it was a sudden change (which might be easier to identify stress e.g. barking in the night) or if it was more ongoing.

Have you tried clicker training?

[FiresideTreats]

When is he jumping up? Is it to greet you when you return home (or from another room!), or randomly or when he's excited, etc?

To start now, I would immediately turn my back on him each and every single time he jumps up. And walk away and ignore him for a few seconds. You need to teach him that 4 paws on the floor is very rewarding (and that jumping up is not worth anything) - there are loads of positive ways to do this, try looking for Kikopup on YouTube. Really sorry this isn't a click link