Crate training- so does everyone do this now?

[anxious84]

Hi,

Am due to pick up our puppy in a couple of weeks and have been doing lots of research watching YouTube recently and can't seem to find any alternative to crate training in the first few weeks.

Honestly, my first impression was they look like horrible little puppy prisons. However, since reading and watching about them, it seems to be the way to go.

Couple of questions though. What happens with toilet training at night? How much time do they spend in their in the day time? Do they go in when you're out? How long do you use a crate for?

I'd seen this Puppy Apartment on YouTube and originally thought it looked great, as it is a bed and puppy toilet\pad, with a divider, but then towards the end of the ad, I changed my mind, as, to me, it just seemed like they wouldn't understand that they should also go outside.

I'm still a bit sceptical of any crate tbh, as I had a puppy as a child and we didn't have a crate. She was toilet trained fairly quickly. I don't remember any prolonged dramas. However, I'm quite nervous about the first couple of weeks and want to do it right.

Opinions please.

Thanks

[tabulahrasa]

"What I don't understand is the bit about it being a safe place where you don't get disturbed and children stay away , that can all be achieved with an ordinary dog bed which doesn't involve shutting any doors on the dog ."

Oh you don't shut the door in that sort of situation, it's just a better more obvious line that must not be crossed by children than a bed.

[tabulahrasa]

anxious...

Re the shutting in, it's not like a playpen, it's more like a cot.

You only shut them in for sleeping when you're not there to make sure they can't hurt themselves.

The rest of the time it's just a bed, that they use or don't as they like.

[anxious84]

Ok, thanks.

For those who say NO to puppy pads- if you're not setting the alarm throughout the night, what do you do? Surely accidents are inevitable.

[anxious84]

I should add, I know accidents are inevitable, I just mean you're obviously going to miss opportunities to let them out during the night.

[Thewolfsjustapuppy]

I guess it depends on the dog. Our pup slept through from 11 to 6 right from the start with no accidents. She has occasionally woken up at night and whined to go out but no accidents. During the day was another matter - we had loads of accidents but that was normally our fault for forgetting to take her out every 20 mins. She is 4 months now and only had one accident this week so result!

[LumelaMme]

I can see the point of crate training, but have never felt the need for it. The dogs have a crate in the car which they are happy enough to go in (because it means WALKS in one direction and FOOD in the other).

[HyacinthsBucket]

I had a very big crate for my labrador when she tore her cruciate ligament, so when we got our cocker spaniel puppy I got it out and put his bed in it. He was a very prolific chewer in his early months, so I left the door open during the day when I was here and only ever closed it if I was leaving him for a few hours. He used to open the door with his nose!! Funnily enough he loved his space, especially if he was overwhelmed with visitors etc and would often take himself off into it for some peace. It was full of toys and his bed, and was his safe place. I think people who shut dogs in them all day however are unspeakable, and it's a fine line between providing your dog with a safe place and a prison. Funnily enough we took it away from him when he was around 18 months and only ever use it on long car journeys/holidays but he's always really excited that it's there so hopefully we made it a good thing for him.

[TrionicLettuce]

For those who say NO to puppy pads- if you're not setting the alarm throughout the night, what do you do?

This is pretty much what I do, although I have them in bed with me rather than in a crate as that's how the adult dogs sleep as well When the pup gets restless it wakes me up, I pop them out with no fanfare (other than gentle praise when they wee/poo outside) then we both go back to bed.

Once they're settled, sleeping through and getting used to being left in the daytime you can move them downstairs at night or to wherever it is you want them to sleep long term.

[insan1tyscartching]

No crates here either Eric was house trained within a fortnight. At night time he sleeps in his bed or on the sofa, he has free run of downstairs and has had since he was eleven weeks old. The first couple of nights dh slept on the sofa but Eric never needed to toilet between 11pm and 6am so he was there for reassurance more than anything else. He's three now think he has only once got us up in the night and that was because he was sick, nowadays he will stay in bed for as long as possible and looks horrified if I'm up at a time he considers too early.

[Polpette]

The links that Trionic has posted contain really good and accurate training advice.

Crate training can go hand in hand with toilet training and if you follow the guides in the links you'll see that it's not at all cruel or as some people have said here a lazy substitute for training.

[anxious84]

Thanks for all the advice.

I have to say though, I'm not sure about bringing the puppy upstairs. I always said I'd never do that, no matter how tempting, because we were going to have upstairs as a strict no go zone, for the dog. Isn't that going to send confusing messages?

[anxious84]

But just to clarify, I would have the puppy actually in our bed, but again, I would be making a rod for my own back, as I wouldn't allow this in the future.

God the idea of cuddling up to her at night though, is very tempting. She's edible.

[GinIsIn]

Our dog was crate trained when she came to us, and whilst we hadn't planned to use one, she's a very tiny dog and clearly wanted a smaller, secure space to nest in so we caved and got her one. She really enjoyed having a snug little spot, and was much calmer and happier being left if she was in her crate.

Once she felt more secure, we un-crate trained her so that she was happy and relaxed all the time anywhere in the house, but as an interim stage, the crate was invaluable.

We don't use it now, and she's perfectly happy to be left for a few hours if we pop out, but I don't think we'd have got there without the crate.

[BiteyShark]

My puppy is in his crate right now asleep with the door open although I will close it when I go to bed. We have a bed both inside and outside of the crate in the same room but he will choose the crate bed 9 out of 10 times so he must like it.

I see it as you wouldn't let your baby crawl all over the place when you can't keep a close eye on them and the crate is the same for a dog when you need to know they are safe if you are elsewhere.

As for toilet training I didn't use puppy pads as I figured I would have to go through the pain of training twice and yes he has the odd accident but at night I know how long he can hold it and set an alarm to take him out.

[BoxLoadingBaby]

I used to be very anti crate, but that was as much a misunderstanding of them as anything.

They are NOT supposed to be used as punishment or to shut the dog away for hours, but as a safe (enclosed) space. It's actually no different to when all our other dogs slept in the alcove under the stairs - it's a den. And a place for them to get away from something that's bothering them.

I wish I had crate trained earlier as it was hard with an adult dog. I compete all over the country in dog sports. My dogs crate was a rest area between races and meant I could leave the car boot open for air without the dog getting out. I now have a tailgate guard which means the whole boot is effectively a crate (and it's damn comfy in there - I sat with the dog to read and accidentally locked myself in when I drew to boot door down a bit to combat the wind).

Indoors, the crate door is never closed - she has as much freedom as if she wasn't crate trained but chooses to sleep there It has a blanket over the top to make a den.

[BiteyShark]

Oh and I should have said I got the biggest crate available, an XL for what will be on the low end of a medium sized dog. Lots of advise on getting the smallest size for the size of the dog to help toilet training but I ignored it as I got it to keep him safe rather than toilet training so he has a lot of space to sleep, play etc.

[Polpette]

Having the crate in your bedroom at night helps the puppy to settle quickly, and makes your life a lot easier too. You do slowly move the crate out of your room and downstairs as the puppy gets toilet trained and more used to settling themselves.

You're really not creating a rod for your own back, you're helping to develop a dog that feels secure and a secure dog means a dog that doesn't develop attachment issues and can be left by themselves. Leaving a dog to 'cry it out' downstairs without you is more likely to cause big issues later.

Another option is for you to sleep downstairs with the dog while it gets settled.

As a lot of people have said, a crate is a safe and secure den where your dog feels settled and confident.

Do join the Facebook group that Trionic linked to or just have a read of their puppy files.

Congratulations on the new puppy by the way!!

[Mrsmorton]

My dog practically pushes me out of the way so she can get in her crate, it's lovely in there!! Cosy and dark and comfy, I'm quite envious.

I never shut the door, I don't need to but it's much cosier than just putting a bed on the floor. Struggling to see how having a den is cruel...

She was house trained well before she was crate trained as well.

[llangennith]

My large crate is the dog's bed and sanctuary. She puts herself to bed about 9pm and I shut the crate door when I go to bed. I also cover the crate with a blanket which keeps her snug plus it stops her barking at every imaginary invaders.
Even quite young puppies can go overnight without peeing.