People who work full time getting a puppy

[BurningBridges]

Friend works full time and has just bought a puppy without telling anyone - I think he knew what we would say. Can't believe the family have been so selfish, they reckon they can leave the dog (12 weeks) from day 1 for 4+ hours each day.

But when I googled I could find very little to say that its wrong to do this - nothing "official" that I could refer him to, and he's saying lots of people do it why shouldn't he etc.

I'm finding it hard to face him, knowing what he is planning - to me its an awful thing to do, but am I over-reacting?

[BurningBridges]

Joffrey I am so sorry, your experience would haunt me I can understand how you feel.

My friend isn't going to change their mind or spend any money on dog walkers. Even if they find out its not working, they are not going to come to me and say "yes Burning, you were right!". Its made me think differently about them, it has affected our friendship although we remain on speaking terms. All I can do is wait and see and hope. Thank you to everyone who gave advice, good to see various points of view represented.

[BiteyShark]

I leave my puppy for three hours until someone comes to collect him and look after him for most of the day when I am at the work for half the week. He can pee and poo as he has access to a secure outside area.

Whilst I employ someone to look after him so he isn't on his own all day I do think it is a good idea to get dogs to be comfortable on their own as shit happens in life with appointments, emergencies etc.

Given the boom in doggy day care could u not suggest to them something like that to relieve the boredom.

[LouiseBrooks]

Joffrey yes I see your point. I hope you manage to get the proof needed.

[Eevee77]

Many puppies need to wee up to as often as every 30 minutes. Having them wee on a puppy pad in a crate they have to spend many hours in is cruel, yes.

[JoffreyBaratheon]

Louise we will only report what we can film, so they are compelled to take action. We risk being accused of harassing the neighbours if we keep reporting things we can't solidly prove. I will however put any film I get on YouTube first (without blanking any faces or sparing any blushes). And I told the polcie and the RSPCA that this is my intention.

[LouiseBrooks]

Joffrey that's horrific. I'd just keep reporting it until the RSPCA can do something. I'd like to say I'd kidnap the puppy but it sounds like they'd just get another one. What utterly vile people.

[JoffreyBaratheon]

Obsessed I used the word "cruel" and to give you some perspective, I was the Mumsnetter who watched my neighbours kick an elderly, cancer-rideen dog to death (He didn't die immediately but was PTS a week or so later). I saw that about a year ago and it will haunt me to my dying day RSPCA did nothing because I didn't have my phone by me so didn't film it. Neighbours now have a new puppy and we've already seen - but not been able to record it happens so fast - the woman whipping it with the end of a lead and last week heard it squealing (Two days after my son overheard the man say if it dug another hole in the garden he'd "Make you squeal",

I think I know what cruelty is.

The fact other dogs get kicked to death by brutal people - in front of a 3 year old child, in broad daylight - doesn't diminish the fact that a dog left alone all day, every day, for maybe 10 hours - is not also in a bad situation. I chose the word 'cruel'/ You might not. That's fair enough. But don't assume you know anything about others' experiences just because their choice of word doesn't meet your approval. I felt it was cruel and I still think it cruel. As I also said, I have friends who work shifts and change their work pattern around their dog so it isn't alone for long each day and I think that's fine.

I worked in 2 different kennels as a teenager.

[Empress13]

How the hell does your friend expect that poor puppy not to go to the toilet in 4 hours !! So even if crate on puppy pads he's never going to understand that he can't wee inside it if you are allowing him to do this every week day ! Bloody stupid.

Can't he get a dog walker to come in and let dog out to wee and spend 45 mins playing/interacting with it? Dog must be bored stiff. I use a dog walker only for one day every 2 weeks and she only charges £9. Perhaps suggest that to your friend.

[Costacoffeeplease]

Of course there are degrees of cruelty but regularly leaving a very young puppy for 4 or 5 hours a day, is not being a responsible owner

I would absolutely hate anyone reading this thread to think it is in any way acceptable because it isn't. Don't get a dog unless you can treat it properly

[Char22thom]

I never said I left my puppy all day every day but did leave her yes, perhaps for longer periods than some ppl agree with but all I can say is she showed absolutely no signs of distress or anxiety at any time. She is actually very comfortable with her own company and I think I was told they are more secure if used to being alone. I'm sorry if my apparent neglect has hijacked this thread.

[GinIsIn]

obsessed but we aren't talking about 'occasionally' I too have worked in rescue and of course there are worse things but just because there are more severe examples of neglect doesn't mean it's ok to leave a puppy alone all day every day.

[Obsessedalready]

As someone who has worked in a dog rescue people maybe need to adjust their definition of 'cruel'

And dogs are not 'pack' animals they are not mini wolves. They are social animals but basically sleep 18 hours a day anyway whether someone is with them or not. Many dogs are perfectly happy and healthy to sleep 8 hours during the day. As long as they are walked, loved and fed I can't see the problem myself. There are worse fates for a dog than ocassionally being left in a safe home environment alone (like not being walked for days at a time!!)

[Badhairday1001]

But they are not babies Costa they are puppies. They don't need to be with somebody 24-7 like a baby does. They can use puppy pads to wee on at that age, they can drink by themselves and eat food that is put down. They are much more self sufficient than babies. If the dog is happy then the care they are receiving is sufficient.

[Costacoffeeplease]

I don't think anyone ignores advice not to leave babies alone

You can't pick and choose on such fundamental things - food, dog beds, crates, yes, but leaving tiny puppies alone for long periods of time, no

[Costacoffeeplease]

Because at 9 or 11 weeks they are babies, they need attention, care, training - especially house training - I don't know any vet, behaviourist, responsible breeder or rescue who would think this was in any way acceptable

[Char22thom]

Granted, howling is not the only sign of unhappiness, there are many many signs, and if she was that unhappy she would have shown some which she did not. There are many pieces of advice given with regards to children which we do not all follow and its the same with dogs, there is so much info and experience ppl will share with you, the important things is that you know your dog and respond to them as necessary, understanding their behaviour and what it tells you about their needs x

[Badhairday1001]

Our 12 week old pup was also left while we were at work. My mum would call in for an hour. We did have another dog though do guessing that makes a difference as they have been best friends since day one and seem happy. I think it depends on the dog more than anything. I don't necessarily think it's cruel though if the dog has attention and love the rest of the time. I'm not sure it's particularly healthy to spend all day with your dog either, they need to fit in to family life and get used to spending periods alone.

[GinIsIn]

Because dogs are pack creatures and not designed for long periods of solitude. Just because the dog isn't howling the place down doesn't mean they are happy - it really is cruel.

[Char22thom]

I should say actually she was 11 weeks as we spent 2 weeks off work at home with her first, and built up leaving her alone in the house whilst we were in another room and whilst we went out before we returned to work x

[Char22thom]

For what reason? She was well fed, watered and very happy and continues to be at 3 and a half one of the most stable, secure, confident and happy dogs I know x

[Costacoffeeplease]

I'm sorry but regularly leaving a 9 week old pup for 5 hours at a time, is cruel, no two ways about it

[Char22thom]

We left our 9 week pup for 5 hours a time and always have done, she never had any issues with separation or any behavioural problems, I think because it was like it from the beginning she is happy enough with it. Having said that we do fuss her a lot when we are home and she is walked every day by us and also with a walker when she is left for more than 5 hrs. Of course there are guidelines against this, but it doesn't make it cruel, in the same way that there is all kinds of advice about raising children that many of us choose to ignore! x

[applesareredandgreen]

My worry would be that has your friend has obviously not looked into any information about caring for and training his new puppy, how he is going to react to it when he comes home and finds the destruction and poo/wee everywhere.

I don't think it is impossible for a young dog to be left for up to 4 hours but your friend needs to spend time acclimatising the dig and building up to this. We leave our dog for up to 4 hours a day (different work patterns different days so not every day) and have done this since he was 14 weeks but we did this by building up to it very gradually after the second week we had him (school holidays) so by the time we went back to work/school we knew that he was happy with this.

I would imagine that a 12 week puppy in a new home would be very distressed to be shut in a crate all day

[oklumberjack]

I wouldn't feel happy about and would be judgemental too.

A friend of mine lied to a dog breeder and said she worked from home but in reality she was out from 7.30 to 5.30 every day. The dog was a JRT. It (naturally) became bored and she regularly posted 'hilarious' pics on fb of how much damage it had done in the house. She then got another dog shipped over from Cyprus. Neither dogs ever go out. My friend they hate walks 😢. It has effected our friendship.

My BIL has a history of making bad decisions with dogs. He works full time and lives in a tiny house. He bought a border collie pup. Of course it didn't have enough exercise and became crazy. I persuaded him to look at rehoming. It took him 28 months but in the end he did. The dog went to live on a farm and spent about 2 days running miles around the fields. However, he now has 2 smaller terrier-cross dogs. They are on their own all day but he finishes work at 4pm and walks them then. The dogs seem ok. Good be better trained and one still isn't house trained after 3 years but they are loved.

I work from home and thus was the reason we got a dog. However he has been left for around 4 hours if on occasion we go out for the afternoon etc. He has the run of the house and we make sure he has a huge walk everyday.

So after my rambling, yes OP I would judge people badly if they work full times and don't have dog sitting/walking arrangements.

[JoffreyBaratheon]

Should add I know people who work shifts and work their shift patterns so the dog isn't alone for more than a couple of hours at a time and I think that is fine. But the people I was talking about upthread work 9 - 5 and commute a distance as well.