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The doghouse

My dog has bitten again. Advice please.

115 replies

mumnosbest · 28/10/2015 08:44

Please don't judge, I am not an experienced dog owner and have probably made several mistakes but want to do the best for my dog and my family.

I have a 2yr old JRT/German Sheppherd X. He is very smart, loyal but a real live wire. A year ago, he got out and when he came back my mother held his color to bring him inside but he bit her hand. It was a deep bite but we put it down to him being young and wanting to be out. I did take him to the vets and had him checked over. There were no physical reasons for his aggression and the vet said he was just young and asserting himself. We have been quite wary ever since and he is strong willed, posessive and gives warning growls. He also doesn't like a lot of fussing which my children know.

Last night my DS had a friend stop over. I shut the dog in the kitchen (where he always sleeps) and took my younger children up to bed. Shortly after I heard a snarl and a scream. The boys had gone to get a drink and the friend had put his face to the open crate door to fuss the dog (my dog does know the boy). Sorry if I'm rambling but my dog bit the boy's cheek. He then lay back down as if nothing had happened. I have reported all this and no further action has been taken, however I'm left with a dog that I cannot trust or keep.

I don't know what to do next. Is it possible to rehome a dog like this? Where would I even start? I honestly feel he would make a loyal pet to someone more experienced and confident and without children. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. TIA

OP posts:
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sparechange · 02/11/2015 22:43

Brilliant advice, Chief Hmm

And what is this based on? Apart from some philosophical stance on animal rights?

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AllOfTheCoffee · 02/11/2015 22:47

This dog has not bitten with aggression, he has been scared/defensive, it's perfectly safe for OP to pass him on to a reputable rescue who will rehabilitate him and work with any potential owners to make sure nothing like this happens again.

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hackedoffnow · 02/11/2015 23:16

How are they going to do that Coffee? And anyway a fearful dog is just as dangerous as an agressive dog and probably worse as a dog with weak nerves is unpredictable. This is an awful situation that has no good resolution. It is a sad time. I am suprised that I rescue would be willing to take a dog with bite history. A stable dog shouldn't bite a child that is next to their cage.

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AllOfTheCoffee · 02/11/2015 23:18

Counter conditioning, clicker training, BAT, patience all help build confidence in nervous dogs.

It doesn't sound like this dog is nervous in general, he just doesn't like being dragged around by his neck or having random strangers stick their faces in his bed, can't say I blame him really.

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Shriek · 03/11/2015 00:27

there are rehoming specialists with JRT's who say exactly this, that they are not designed for living with children or other pets. Some manage it, but many end up being rehomed trying to fit the ddog into an environment ill-suited to its natural tendencies, and DC and other dpets get damaged and killed in the x-fire.

I think OP you are trying to do the best you can, but that devoted ddog at your feet, personally, I would want to be sure of his future. Kennels are an extremely sstressfull environment for them Sad.

If you cn find someone and see them yourself, vet them for yourself and remain in contact woudl be the only way of knowing your ddogs future.

Its no surprise that GSD's are so good at protection work, and are commonly used for it, along with dobermans, etc. They have a particular profile, as do the JRT's and it was such a lot to expect of yourself to be able to manage this and DC without incident.

I don't envy your position/plight. I really do, its the worst of situations to find yourself in. I feel for you.

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AllOfTheCoffee · 03/11/2015 00:44

You work with/know rehoming specialists but you are advising OP to rehome her dog privately? Hmm

Who do you work with, The Micky Mouse Association of Re-Homers? That's the most irresponsible advice I've read on this thread. Have you any idea at all what happens to dogs who are rehomed privately?

OP trust the people you are talking with from the shelter. There are second chances for dogs like this, in fact, I wouldn't deem this dog as a problem dog necessarily and would happily re home to an older, experienced couple with no children left at home.

GSD's work with the police because they are loyal, intelligent and obedient, not because they have a natural instinct to chase down untowards and sink their teeth into them and again JRTs are bred to hunt vermin, not children. They are perfectly safe family dogs in the right hands, just like all breeds. They require more exercise than a few other small breeds but no more than your average terrier.

I find it absolutely abhorrent that you are advising OP when you've clearly learned all you know about dogs from dubious websites and TV programmes.

I do understand what other posters are saying about long term life in kennels but it's rare, a decent organisation would look to moving the dog to a foster home/different rescue if he spent too long with them. They wouldn't allow a dog to languish in kennels if he was suffering for it, but I do agree in those cases PTS should be an option, but your dog isn't a dog I'd worry about rehoming. There's been bite incidents, yes, but these are clearly under stressful situations that would be easily avoidable for people who know and understand dogs. He has youth and a good personality on his side. Dogs who spend a long time in kennels tend to be older dogs and over bred dogs like staffies and lurchers.

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sparechange · 03/11/2015 08:53

Rescues just don't have the time or resources to do intense one-on-one training with aggressive dogs, in the hope that they might be able to rehome them afterwards with someone who may or may not keep up the training. You are in cloud cuckoo land if you think they will.
There is an outside chance they might if it was a 'desirable' breed that could be easily rehomed at the end of it, but an odd cross breed? Not a chance.

The dog has no impluse control and we have no idea whether it has any basic training or has been properly socialised.
It isn't even going to pass the initial assessment with any reputable rescue, let alone.

OP, your dog is going to end up being PTS. Do the responsible thing and organise it yourself instead of palming it off onto an overstretched rescue.

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hackedoffnow · 03/11/2015 09:07

I agree with sparechange a dog like this has a slim chance and the rescue will not want the responsibility if it did go onto bite again. And tbh it would be foolish of them to think someone would be able to control all the variables to keep this dog happy.

It might not be the case with the OP's dog but some dogs cannot be trained and made good. Poor breeding can result in flaws that sadly no amount of effort can remedy. If rescues are already over-stretched why would a rescue try to rehome a dog with such a dubious history?

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insertimaginativeusername · 03/11/2015 10:02

I am finding the divide in opinion interesting. For those suggesting the dog be PTS would you also suggest these dogs be PTS?

  1. Nipped me as a child after I repeatedly blew in her face because I found her nose twitching funny


  1. Bit a stranger for attempting to stroke the dog by putting their hand over the garden gate


  1. Snarled & snapped while having a thick thorn pulled from the toes/pad
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Shriek · 03/11/2015 10:19

i think you are well out line making such outrageous claims about me coffee. You are truly offensive, and based on the way you speak to people i would take all your advice with a pinch of salt, and throw it away!

Stop spending your time just trying to attack people!

They are not just like 'anyother ddog' and take a bit of handling. they are not ideally suited to family/other pets. Go ask the people that spend their time trying to save their lives.

Insert you have listed 3 very different reasons and no I wouldn't condone PTS based on any of them!!!! really?!!!

I think maybe all ddogs would snap at the face of someone blowing at them.

You're having a laugh right?

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Shriek · 03/11/2015 10:19

well out of line

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Shriek · 03/11/2015 10:21

i wasn't referring in any way to a 'long term life in kennels' I am talking about anything more than a few weeks and the stress it causes.

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AllOfTheCoffee · 03/11/2015 11:16


Prior to becoming a LP I spent 10 years volunteering and working with rescues.

Rescues do work with dogs who have issues. Many larger rescues employ their own qualified behaviourists, Dogs Trust, for example, as do some smaller rescues. Behaviourists will often donate their spare time to both rescues and people who have rehomed from rescues. They don't just take dogs in off the street and hand them out willy nilly without assessing them and working out any kinks, or least a reputable rescue wouldn't. There are some rescues I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, but OP has not said who she is in touch with.

There is nothing in the OP that leads me to believe that this dog could not be rehomed responsibly with no further incidents.
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insertimaginativeusername · 03/11/2015 11:17

Not at all...genuine question.

Not wildly different from the incidents the OP describes...and she doesn't know if the child antagonised the dog in any other way (other than putting his face to the crate)

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AlpacaLypse · 03/11/2015 11:31

Someone upthread already mentioned BRX Rescue, which I work with. We'd consider this case. Linky here

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BertrandRussell · 03/11/2015 11:51

"I am finding the divide in opinion interesting. For those suggesting the dog be PTS would you also suggest these dogs be PTS?

  1. Nipped me as a child after I repeatedly blew in her face because I found her nose twitching funny


Depends what you mean by repeatedly. Depends whether she tried to move away. Depends whether she "warned" you. If she went straight to bite then yes

  1. Bit a stranger for attempting to stroke the dog by putting their hand over the garden gate


*Depends on circumstances. Possibly. Possibly not.

  1. Snarled & snapped while having a thick thorn pulled from the toes/pad


Of course not
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insertimaginativeusername · 03/11/2015 13:01

Thanks Bertrand, was genuinely interested in opinion.

If you take out the circumstances though, they all sound quite nasty.

A dog bit a child on the nose

A dog bit a stranger without warning

A dog snarled when being cared for

I can't recall exactly how many times I annoyed the dog but I would imagine I probably did miss the warning signs.

Each dog was otherwise very placid.

My point is I wonder if the child was honest in this case or was worried about being told off so said "I only put my face up to it"

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tabulahrasa · 03/11/2015 14:16

"I am finding the divide in opinion interesting. For those suggesting the dog be PTS would you also suggest these dogs be PTS?"

It depends...on whether the dog in those situations will be in the same or similar situations again without the owner doing anything to prevent it.

I wasn't calling for him to be PTS, but if the OP feels incapable of keeping and working with him and if an appropriate rescue space can't be found then being PTS is a viable option and a much kinder one than for example spending the rest of his life in kennels or bouncing from private rehome to private rehome while getting more and more problematic and distressed each time.

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BertrandRussell · 03/11/2015 14:22

I do think that things would be so much better if we could all agree that being PTS is not the worst thing that can happen to a dog. I have a friend who is always posting pictures of dogs that have been in "no kill" centres for years appealing for homes for them. it makes me so angry.

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EasyToEatTiger · 03/11/2015 17:27

No, being pts is not the worst thing if the welfare of the animal is at stake. I wonder how many people think it would be better for some people to be put out of their misery too because no-one has listened to them and can't cope with their issues?

I think this dog has not been listened to, OP and you need to get your training in order and seek advice before you give up. I have rehomed a couple of dogs off the internet. Both have had issues which I have been through hell and high water to sort out, but once a dog comes to live with us, it stays unless it absolutely can't.

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mudandmayhem01 · 03/11/2015 18:02

I'm not sure if animal human comparisons are very helpful, some animals are bred for meat, we don't do this to people. A pig is generally considered to be of similar intelligence level to a dog. I eat bacon and i love my dog am I hypocrite, almost certainly.

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Shriek · 03/11/2015 18:09

my ddogs will all snap at air blown on their jowls/noses, they are not being aggressive, and i think extremely different from the set of circumstances that OP outlined initially, and went all linked together provides a pattern of behaviour.

I definitely agree that PTS is not the worst thing. a ddog spending its life in anxiety and feeling threatened needing to be aggressive/excessive time in kennels - basically poor quality of life, is no different mentally from physically.

If OP can know that ddog has gone to the appropriate rehome, with the right support and remain responsible for that,etc. but I wouldn't personally, because i have seen first hand and heard of the rehome after rehome after rehome very very sad.

Are we saying ddogs are the same as humans?? but ha! yes, some people certainly would wish they could be 'put out of their misery' either for mental or physical disease. there are many fighting for voluntary euthanasia!

I think you have to be very careful who you hand your ddog over to otherwise there is no guarantee of anything, and better would be to have a skilled behaviourist come to you (as no, only a few seem to have them on hand at rescue centres).

Good luck OP - this is such a tough call for the ddog you love and want the best for.

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MonsterDeCookie · 03/11/2015 18:22

Honestly, the dog has to go and in reality I think PTS is the more humane option. A dog that is that anxiety ridden already will not regime easily. We have a dog and he's a bomb proof as they come with kids but it takes very careful section of the dog and then knowledgable training. My SD (10) tripped and fell on our dog while he was asleep and came down hard on his muzzle. All he did was shoot up and shake off and yawn. Kids are clumsy unpredictable things and need to be near dogs with a fairly high tolerance of accidents. The bites you describe are no where near acceptable. Sorry.

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Greyhorses · 03/11/2015 18:39

I also wasn't calling for PTS but I don't think it's fair to pass this problem on unless it is to someone qualified to deal with it and most rescues are not. I visit lots of rescues with my job and lots are run by very kind but very inexperienced people and assisted by volunteers with hardly any experience of dog behaviour. The op needs to hear the reality of the suitation. Fear aggression is often the worst to 'fix'.

I have a potentially fear aggressive dog. I Manage her within an inch of her life, have spent hours and hours on training and also spent a lot of money on behaviourists to help her as its my problem nobody else's.
If she did manage to injure someone despite this I would have her PTS in my arms surrounded by family knowing she was loved and safe and not dump her somewhere without being certain of her fate.

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BertrandRussell · 03/11/2015 22:32

"No, being pts is not the worst thing if the welfare of the animal is at stake. I wonder how many people think it would be better for some people to be put out of their misery too because no-one has listened to them and can't cope with their issues?"

The welfare of the animal is at stake. The chances of finding a home for a dog that has bitten twice are vanishingly small. The energy that is put into trying (and often failing) to sort out a single dog would be much better put into finding homes for the insane numbers of non biting dogs that are stuck in rescue centres.

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