Vets tomorrow re pain management. Any advice?

[Ephedra]

We have a 5 year old border collie who has something wrong with him. The numerous vets we have seen don't know what the problem is despite many tests.

Pain is an issue for him but he hides it really well (so I have no idea how much pain he is in). He is not normally on painkillers we just give them when we think he needs them. He has been on them for a week now and on Wednesday I called the vet about increasing the dose for that day as he was really restless and clingy. I've never had to do that before and I am not 100% sure that the pain was dealt with.

Dog is currently on pardale v and has had tramodol before, he cannot take NSAIDs at all.

Tomorrow we are going to discuss options* with the vet but I don't feel like I know enough for the discussion to really useful, so does anyone have any advice?

*I am aware that options include if and when to pts.

[landrover]

Ahhh, poor both of you!! But he is a border collie, should be running around all day, obviously he is not right!!! Go tell the Vet that you want it sorted now, wish you both all the luck xxxx Just pondering whether you can ask that he goes to a veterinary hospital that will find out exactly whats going on? Perhaps you can let us know the area you are in , and some posters will be able to recommend somewhere? x

[Ephedra]

I'm in lancashire Landrover.

Poor dog gets one 40 minute on lead walk a day which is double what he was getting last year. When he was younger we would go to the park twice a day and spend hours there. I really miss it and I don't think we will ever get that back (because of his feet).

[MrsNPattz]

Hi, has anyone ever suggested you try him on Aloe Vera orally?

[Ephedra]

No they haven't. What for?

[catsdogsandbabies]

Has he had his joints tapped? Investigated for polyarthritis? Ask to be referred to an internal medicine specialist. Which ortho specialist did you see- a true RCVS or European specialist?

[catsdogsandbabies]

The waxing and waning suggests an immune mediated disease.

[MrsNPattz]

Have sent you a message

[Ephedra]

Cats yes his joints were tapped, no arthritis found. I've just checked and the ortho vet we saw was RCVS.

[Ephedra]

Thanks MrsNPattz I have replied.

[catsdogsandbabies]

If you have the money might be worth going to a another specialist. Particularly at a university hospital. Liverpool vet school? Not sure where you are. Have you had a report for the specialist? We don't usually accept not getting a diagnosis. You should ask him re pain relief etc. you are still his client if you were referred.

[daisydotandgertie]

It's a long shot, but a number of the symptoms tie in with a hereditary border collie disease. An inability to absorb vitamin b12. Read this and see if anything rings bells www.dogworld.co.uk/product.php/111319

I know it's a very long shot - it is a rarely diagnosed condition, but colitis, bleeding etc made me think, and so did the limping and neurological/odd gait etc.

[Aked]

I agree re a university hospital. Or at least a referral centre with many disciplines. A lot of clever bods under one roof, and multi specialists that could look at all the different pieces and try to put them together. I don't see why further investigation such as an MRI wouldn't be helpful when they can't make a diagnosis from what they have already done.

Worth investigating the b12 deficiency, but try not to get your hopes up. You can diagnose all kinds of things from the internet:) like Daisy says, its a long shot. Wouldn't it be great if that was it though?!

Is he insured op?

[Ephedra]

We have been to a referral centre where there are a number of different specialist, the vet we saw asked the opinion of others there (the dermatologist was one).

The painkillers the dog is currently on were approved by the ortho vet.

Cats the local vet doesn't have a final report from the ortho vet and the last report they did give wasn't that accurate (it was written by someone else). The ortho vet is the one who said all the dogs problems may just be the way he is.

The b12 deficiency is interesting, he was terribly thin before we sorted his colitis. So thin in fact that we had to have him weighed every week. He was 16kg at 1 ish and is now 23kg. He has never lacked for energy though.

Yes he is insured and they have paid out every time we have claimed.

[daisydotandgertie]

No, it's interesting, neither did Tizzy. She has always been a ball of energy but the B12 deficiency which is an inherited condition is certainly what the problem was.

In my view there are enough indicators with what you've described to make it worthwhile testing for it. The specialist is referred to in that article is easy to google and certainly worth ringing. It is such a long shot, I know but the specialist will possibly be able to use existing blood results to start with.

[Ephedra]

I will definately look into B12 deficiency. He is already on zinc supplements as ripped pads can be due to zinc deficiency.

[Aked]

Keep us updated Ephedra, I'd love to know if that is what it boiled down to :) Fingers crossed!

[Ephedra]

Will do Aked.

The vet we saw yesterday is going to call tomorrow about pain relief. I'm hoping I won't have to argue too much to get what the dog needs.

[Toooldtobearsed]

I just cannot understand no MRI, it would exclude so much!

I do feel so sorry for you, I know with mine, the few weeks before diagnosis were a total pain in the bum, so goodness knows how you must be feeling.

Fingers ( and paws) crossed for you

[Ephedra]

Thanks Tooold, it's been 5 years now that we have been trying to help the dog. Tbh I no longer care if we get a diagnosis, I just want to be listened to when I say my dog is suffering. Sadly all the vet see is a manic collie who is so happy to see people and they don't believe that he hurts.

[catsdogsandbabies]

Ok well that is a shit specialist then. I would ask to be referred again to someone different, preferably at a Uni. They can liase with internal medicine specialists too.

[catsdogsandbabies]

Ps I am a specialist and when the dog goes home the owner has a discharge report and the vet with 24 hrs

[catsdogsandbabies]

Liverpool Uni has great ortho people.

[Ephedra]

May I ask what sort of specialist you are Cats?

[catsdogsandbabies]

Internal medicine. But nowhere near you I am afraid.

[catsdogsandbabies]

Just think it isn't acceptable to just say there is no diagnosis. This rarely happens to me (it does sometimes) but if it does we have a plan to manage pain, reassess in a certain period. Not just get on with it.