If your adorable puppy is now a teenaged ratbag, sign in here

[ChickensHaveNoLips]

A support thread for those of us dealing with our rebels without a cause. Jasper is now 11 months old. He has decided that recall is boring. Stay is discretionary. Our food is his food, and if we don't offer to share he'll just nick it. He's also got a bit more mouthy than I'd like. So, we're back to basics. Heel has gone out of the window too, so walks are work at the moment. I'm thinking of trying to whistle train him, and have stocked up on the treats. Does anyone want a swig?

[ChickensHaveNoLips]

I feel marginally better about Jasper's behaviour after our walk last night. An english bull terrier came flying across the field and sat sweetly in front of me waiting for me to throw the ball. I looked around, and couldn't see anyone, so read the dog's collar. As I leant forward, she leapt up and headbutted me square between the eyes. I saw stars (bullies have bloody thick skulls). At that point a figure appeared over the horizon, running and waving a flinger and screaming 'SHELLLLLBEEEEEEEE'. Naturally, Shelby ignored her frantic owner and continued sticking huge muddy paw prints all over my trousers and jacket in an attempt to get the ball (which I didn't dare throw in case Jasper got narky). Jasper sat on the sidelines, and showed no inclination to intervene. I am both offended that he didn't try to 'protect' me and also grateful that WW3 didn't break out over a squeaky tennis ball. The owner arrived, breathless, at my side, apologised her socks off and dragged the gleefully wagging Shelby away

[Kidsandpets]

Signing in!
Barney is almost 12 months now and has good days and bad days. The good days are great and I get excited thinking that we are getting somewhere with his training and then we have a run of bad days where he turns into a little sod.

We're just keeping going with the training and waiting for this phase to pass. Unfortunately as he is a golden retriever this may take a while!

[Jix]

Are all your teenage dogs suddenly behaving then?? I was relying on this thread to educate me about the reality of owning a dog. We are thinking about it, but I get sudden grips of panic in my stomach about the responsibility of it all! Plus you were all giving me a good giggle in my empty tidy house!

[Flatbread]

Jix, lol, no. While dogs go through different stages, they dom't necessarily become disobedient all of a sudden at adolescence.

Ours is over two years now. Has excellent recall and is no trouble at all. Pup also behaves brilliantly, no nipping or biting and he sits nicely for meals and touches. Probably reinforced by his mum.

I think it is about being consistent with boundaries and the dog respecting you as its leader. If all training is based on goodies, I am not surprised that the dog decides one day, nah, the rabbit/deer is more interesting than a goodie.

My dogs learnt recall as a two prong approach- come back when called, get a reward. Disobey and get a punishment. So now, it is almost hard wired into them to come back, no matter what exciting stuff is out there.

[SnoopyKnine]

Never ever punish a dog for not coming back for a recall. (whatever Flatbread says)

imagine the scenario you run up to someone, they hit, scold you and tell you off crossly. Will you chose to go to that person again - No you will stay away.

If every time you go to a person and they give you chocolate, a pat, tell you are fantastic, make you feel good, you will want to be with them and will of course recall to them. It will be a pleasure to be in their company, it is always rewarding to be in their company. Recall will be fantastic.

If you want the anecdotal evidence that Flatbread quotes I have 6 dogs never been punished as they have always had a fast recall due to positive training methods and have fantastic recall 100% even with rabbits, dogs deer in the area.

[Flatbread]

Snoopy , as usual, your comments are crap.

My dogs know that if they don't come back, I will go and get them and the outing is over. That is a very effective punishment, and I have only had to use it a few times. She got the message very quickly.

My dog has perfect recall. She has to, we live in the country among cattle and sheep. She comes everywhere with me, including nice restaurants off-leash. And behaves. Every single time.

You are welcome to stuff your dogs with goodies. And then plead with them with even 'higher value' treats when they disobey. Lol

[TheReturnoftheSmartArse]

Those with chewers .... have you tried Tabasco? DH painted everything in sight with it and ArseDog never chewed again. (Though he is partial to a shoe, should anyone be dumb enough to leave any lying around.) He's almost a year old now and, apart from honking like a teenage boy, has been a relatively easy teenager so far. Better than the human ones I live with, anyway.

[Flatbread]

And the comment on dogs/ people liking you because you give them chocolate is beyond silly. Sounds like a comment by a six year old, who has a simplistic understanding of relationships.

I have a happy family, dogs and friends who want to hang out with me. And no, I don't buy their loyalty through stuffing them with treats.

[ChickensHaveNoLips]

Anyway...

I've stepped up the training with Jasper and things are a bit more on track. Walking to heel is still a major PITA, though. He's just so excitable and loses concentration as soon as he spots something interesting. Food rewards just don't interest him once we're outside. So I've bought an easy walk harness and will trial it later. I did meet a chap in the woods walking three beautifully behaved Springer spaniels as I was being dragged through the mud, and asked him how he'd trained his dogs. He smiled and said, 'Oh, it takes time. And repetition. Lots of repetition'. So I told him that I am doing that. He asked how old Jasper was. I told him he's now 1. He laughed and said 'Oh, well, only about 6 years to go then!'. Then he wandered off chuckling with his calm, older-than-7 dogs. I am beginning to suspect that there is truth in what he says.

[SnoopyKnine]

for Flatbread
lol and sorry chickensHaveNolips

[TheReturnoftheSmartArse]

The harness thing has saved my shoulders and arms, Chickens, it really has. ArseDog pulls like a good 'un and I either end up with dislocated shoulders or he chokes himself and voms. Nice! He behaves beautifully for DH, though - but then DH is God according to ArseDog (and according to DH too for that matter!).

[ChickensHaveNoLips]

I'm hoping so, SmartArse (love the name, btw ). He's surprisingly strong for such a small dog (13kg) and fast.

No need for apologies, Snoopy. I agree with you

[Flatbread]

Lol Snoopy, I don't need biscuits from you. Keep those for your dogs so that they continue liking you

[Flatbread]

Chicken, doesn't surprise me that you agree with Snoopy. Am sure continuing with an only treats approach will work, once the dog is so fat and old that he can't go anywhere

[SnoopyKnine]

Its not a treat you silly old Flatbread - it is no comment!!!!!!!

[MiseryBusiness]

Flatbread can have a fight in an empty room.

Anyway, DDog2 is still a total pain. She is either asleep in her bed behaving very well or distroying the house.

I've spend so much money on lovely chews and kong fillers. Try to keep an eye on her all the time but with kids in the house and another dog she has still managed to chew her way through half the kitchen.

I do love her. I really really want to love her but she is pushing me to my limits at them moment.

[ChickensHaveNoLips]

Muchos sympathy, Misery

[Flatbread]

Misery, I wrote a response to Jin's question, based on my experience.

But there is a core group in the doghouse that attacks people with different views. The childish, naive arguments presented by so called experts here are laughable.

I think you are one of the group, so I am not surprised at your comment.

[Flatbread]

And yes, I love a good argument, guess it comes with being an academic But I wouldn't come to the doghouse for any interesting debate, the quality of discussion is often low, with a few exceptions.

[ChickensHaveNoLips]

The easy walk harness seems to be quite effective. But time will tell

[MiseryBusiness]

Hope it works out with the Harness, Chickens

Flatbread - It must be quite lonely up there, on that pedestal you've put yourself on.

If only there was a 'hide poster' action on MN, oh well.

[Flatbread]

Lol misery. I am not putting myself

[Flatbread]

Sorry, iPhone. I am not putting myself on any pedestal. I think most posters on MN think the doghouse is a nuthouse. It would help if people stopped being such fanatics about dog training approaches. It gets a bit irritating seeing the same inane arguments trotted out when some offers a perspective different from the fanatics here

[Flatbread]

iPhone typing, sorry. Anyway , enough of this bickering. Am off to read up on Bob Diamond's testimony. Hopefully some exciting discoveries there

[herbertjane]

Link here explaining how to get a better recall. around 2.25mins it explains again why punishment is a rubbish idea.