THE ACCUSED ------ CHANNEL 5 now

[RTKangaMummy]

Now

[DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen]

Funnily enough, this came to mind only the other day. Thank you for bumping this. How sad 😢

[motheroreily]

That is so sad. I knew the baby was unwell but didn't realise the extent.

I've watched this documentary more than once. I'm not sure how I felt. It was interesting and horrible at the same time.

[AlexCabot]

Apologies for bumping such an old thread but poor little Primrose died in 2021 and now Kyle has been charged with her murder.
No word on whether Kenzey will also face more charges.
So so sad.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12210963/Father-36-appears-court-charged-murdering-daughter-six-shaking-baby.html

[salsmum]

I have a DD who is severely,physically disabled with Cerebral Palsy some 20 years ago I wanted to foster/adopt a child with SN. The local authority were very happy and enthusiastic for us to do so...until I said I am happy for a parent to have access to their child if they put them into care because they can't cope with their disabilities I quite understand but I could not sit in the same room with a parent who has abused that child resulting in their severe disabilities and be civil to them....I was told that parents have a RIGHT to still see their children! ...even if they had hurt them so much.Because I could not agree they lost a loving family for that child.

[user1483300717]

Similarstories- so sad, thank God your little boy now has a good home. Good he can't remember it. His poor sibling. Do you no how old he was when it happend? Must of been young if he can't remember.

[Similarstories]

For me the fascination is because of my sons story, and how I can relate to a young woman allowing a baby to be so badly injured.
my sons sibling was killed by his birth parents - I went on to adopt him....his birth parents were still both under 20 when in happened :(
I havent met them, but seen photos etc.....watching the programme brought the birth mother more to life for me in a bizarre way - so young, so vibrant - how on earth could Kenzey and my son's first mother allow this to happen.
how could any mother allow this to happen. when you watch it, its not just news headlines, or social services reports anymore.

and for the PP who asked, so far my son doesn't remember that he watched his sibling die, or how it happened, one day maybe i will have to tell him - he has a new identity and no-one in RL knows who he is, so he is protected for now - but surely i owe it to him to tell him he was a big brother etc.....only time will help me decide what to do. these are the decisions i must make for him.

the same decisions a family out there will most likely be making for Kenzey's children.

[friendlyflicka]

MrsDV thanks very much

[motheroreily]

I might watch it again tonight.
Yes that's true bake off I felt I didn't know anything about Kyle.

I know you can't make assumptions about people but kenzie appeared just like lots of other young women.

I have so many questions but as you say we'll never know everything

[BillSykesDog]

Me as well. It actually gave me trouble sleeping.

[BakeOffBiscuits]

Sorry about my awful grammar there!

[BakeOffBiscuits]

Me too Mother, I cant stop thinking about this programme, it was a fab documentary but there are still so many questions which I suppose we will never know the answers to.

Also we don't see 'the accused' person so close up. We only usually get to see a few photographs on the news and in newspapers. I am personally finding it shocking to accept that a young, beautiful, well spoken young woman, (the same age as my own DD) could be guilty of such an awful thing.

[motheroreily]

I agree. It was the best documentary I can remember watching.

It's on my mind a lot

[1happyhippie]

Some great answers thank you.
I will look forward to more programmes like this.

[RowanMumsnet]

[From Semi-Normal] Was the show edited in a way to make it more factual rather than emotive? Were clips of Kenzey showing emotion cut out so as not to lead the viewer one way or the other and give a more 'balanced' view of the situation? Or is she really just that emotionally removed in 'real life’?

[Rob] The show was cut so that it was full of fact (the fascination of the case and the unfolding evidence) and also full of emotion - Kenzey’s emotional journey was absolutely key. So we tried to make both central to the story. However, and this is really important, what we avoided doing was sensationalising her emotions. We wanted a true and sympathetic portrayal of her experience, and didn’t want to exploit her for the sake of high-impact television.

[From MeadowHay] Was Kenzey paid to be part of the programme? If not, why do you think she wanted to take part in it?

[Rob] She wasn’t paid and never asked to be. I think she took part because she felt that it was a chance to document the pressures of being accused of a crime that she says she didn’t commit - so that her side of the story, her experience, could be told.

[RowanMumsnet]

[From RockyBird] I'd be interested to know the crew members' thoughts on Kenzey's guilt or otherwise while the programme was being made? They must have formed opinions being in such close contact.

[Rob] Myself and the producer actually tried hard not to form opinions about guilt or innocence. Our job was to document emotions and not to point fingers of suspicion, and we felt the best way to do that was to steer clear of trying to assess the evidence ourselves (which is why I never questioned Kenzey about the details of the case). Having made many documentaries about many challenging subject matters, it does become possible to avoid trying to come to conclusions about what you’re filming. If you take a stance then that would make for a less interesting (a less balanced) film.

[From BuzzMoon] Will you be making any more like this? I really enjoyed it. Was Kenzey's mental health looked into at any point during the trial?

[Rob] There will be more episodes coming, so do keep an eye out for them (dates not yet set in stone). At any trials of this nature the mental health of the defendants is often considered and discussed, but it wasn’t a hugely significant feature here.

[From QuicklyDecides] Do you know, did she start to dress that way AFTER she was charged? That ultra-feminine colourful vintage quirky look didn't ring true for me. Did she look like that beforehand?

[Rob] I didn’t know Kenzey prior to charge so I can’t say.

[From ColdFeetinWinter] Did Kenzey receive any sort of emotional help, counselling or support whilst awaiting trial?

[Rob] As far as I’m aware she did see a counsellor for emotional support, yes.

[RowanMumsnet]

[From AmITheNormalOne] Rob what was the hardest point emotionally for you when filming this?

[Rob] I don’t actually think there was one moment or event that was the hardest - the entire process was tense and emotional due to the very raw nature of what had happened and what Kenzey was facing. Having said that, it was always very difficult to be with Kenzey when she was upset because at those times I had to find a balance between capturing this emotion (in order to show how tough her experience was) and giving her enough time away from the camera.

[From GardenGeek] Has [Kyle's] Facebook confession been re-created in this format rather than the actual Facebook post being shown, because it looks like it's typed but not sent. Also was it on the wall or on private message.

[Rob] Not showing the actual Facebook message is just because the evidence was an old photocopy of a screenshot, not good enough quality for broadcast. I’m afraid I can’t comment on whether or not it was public (on the wall) or private.

[From CherryRedNose] I would like to ask Rob if he has an opinion on the involvement of police and social services in the case - it was mentioned that Kyle only received a caution for punching Kenzey while she was heavily pregnant and that social services judged Kyle not to be a significant risk to the children only a short time before he attacked the baby.

[Rob] I don’t know enough about this matter - and any surrounding matters - to have an informed opinion of the police and social services involved in the case.

[RowanMumsnet]

[From RTKangaMummy] I would be interested to know if they have made other documentaries but have not been allowed to put them on TV cos the family has pulled out at last minute or CPS or family or whoever have decided that they don't agree with the verdict. In other words, who has the final decision whether it is shown on TV? Can any of the people involved stop it happening?

[Rob] There are many things that could prevent a programme like this making it to broadcast: the defendant might change their plea to guilty and the trial is called off; they may decide that they no longer want to be involved with filming (despite consenting to be involved we can’t force people to carry on - it has to be what’s best for them); and of course you never know if a judge will make an order meaning we wouldn’t be able to broadcast because the programme could affect the course of justice. So to answer your question, a combination of several factors can effect whether it’s shown. If the case and trial process proceed and the contributor is happy with filming, and as long as we’ve abided by some strict legal protocols re what we can and can’t show, then it can be broadcast. But final decisions rest with Channel 5.

I would also like to know why Kenzey thought it was a good idea to make the programme? Was it cos she was convinced that they would both be found innocent? If she thought she didn't do it and Kyle didn't do it then who did she think did do it?

[Rob] As I mentioned to MarmiteMakesMeHappy, she felt it was her chance to tell her side of the story - and felt that she’d regret it if she’d not had her say.

[From 1happyhippie] I would like to know if Kenzey now admits that Kyle done it or does she still claim they are both innocent? If she does think they are innocent, what does she believe happened that night to her baby?

[Rob] Kenzey still maintains that she's innocent, and points to alternative medical theories as the cause for her child’s injuries (theories which argue that many “baby shaking” injuries are in fact the result of other physical ailments and complications). There are many other mothers, in similar situations to Kenzey, who also point to these alternative arguments.

[RowanMumsnet]

[From HalfShellHero] I would like to ask Rob if there will be anymore documentaries like this to come?? I thought it very interesting to see the the actual process of cases like this and how lawyers like Richard Manek can truly work for their clients even in frustrating circumstances.

[Rob] Yes, absolutely. I’m currently finishing episode 2 and hope to start filming a third episode soon.

[From FriendlyFlicka] I would like to ask Rob if he felt he manipulated Kenzey in anyway, through filming her? That perhaps she might have dropped her stance if she had not been on film, and playing a role for the camera.

[Rob] Not at all. Of course I could be wrong, but having made documentaries for 20 years I feel like I have a good sense of when people are manipulating the process. I spent lots of time with Kenzey - on and off camera - and feel that we she was a very honest contributor.

Was it conscious editing to make the mother and daughter both seem so obsessed with their appearances through scenes of them putting on make up, and with clothes changes - who suggested that?

[Rob] No. To be fair to them I don’t think that her mum combing her hair and Kenzey putting make-up on a couple of times points to an obsession about their appearance! And the editing process can’t really emphasise clothes changes - we just showed her as she appeared on different days.

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

Thanks for all your questions - here are the answers from the director Rob McCabe. (I'm afraid some of the very last questions posted may have missed out - apologies).

[From MarmiteMakesMeHappy] I would like to ask Rob what he thought Kenzey's motive for being part of the film making was. It's a huge undertaking to be so publicly exposed without knowing whether you will be exonerated or vilified. She must have had her reasons and I'd be interested to know what they were.

[Rob] It was a huge undertaking for Kenzey - and one that she had to give a lot of time and thought to, including lengthy discussions with myself and her lawyers. In the end, she felt that she was innocent and that her experience of being accused of a crime should be known. Quite simply, she felt it was her chance to tell her side of the story - and felt that she’d regret it if she’d not had her say.

[From Laki139Love] Has there been a serious case review or learning lessons review in this case that can be read?

[Rob] I’m not yet sure - but it is something I’m currently trying to find out. I’ll let you know.

[From SassyMuffin] I would like to ask Rob after spending time with Kenzey and her defence team if he agrees with the verdict.

[Rob] My honest opinion is that I personally don’t know if Kenzey is guilty or not. There were huge amounts of evidence against Kyle, and plenty of evidence to suggest her guilt, but I do feel that in terms of her accusation there are many question marks too. That’s not me trying to avoid the question - it’s very much how I feel.

[TheFirstMrsDV]

There are some good books out there Friendly but its been a while since I read any!
I recently donated mine to a couple waiting to adopt.

You would get good advice on the adoption boards.They are extremely knowledgeably and helpful. I wouldn't want to give you out of date advice.
I recently learned about at totally new concept on MN that wasn't a thing at all when I first got my DS home.

Your question may not relate to an adopted/fostered child but I think the books/advice are relevant to any child who needs to know why they don't see a family member.

In my experience books can really help but you can't avoid the hurt and confusion. But you can get advice on how to deal with the fall out. Sorry

[user1484578224]

Rocky bird, you bring back a memory where I accidentally got locked out of the house and baby was inside. I was practically hysterical thinking he would use up all the air and die. Obviously crazed Mummy thinking.
That sort of animal like instinct was completely absent from mother and GM, something badly wrong there.

[friendlyflicka]

Sorry - MrsDV - probably seems a strange book choice! I have very personal reasons for wanting some advice on the subject. But obviously only if you can easily recommend. You sound like you are very experienced in the area....

[friendlyflicka]

Must have been a bit 'challenging' for you, MrsD. Is there a good book dealing with these sorts of issues?

[TheFirstMrsDV]

Friendly it would depend on who they were with tbh.
If a child is placed for adoption the new parents will be encouraged and expected to do lots of 'life work' with the children. Once the child is adopted its entirely up to the parents though. As it is for birth parents, they get to decided what the child knows about their past.
A foster carer would have to talk to the child with the support of the sw.

Family carers, like myself, are expected to do the same but not everyone does.
WHich is one of the reasons its so worrying that the GM could have residency.

No way is she going to explain to the younger child why her sister is so disabled. If the injured child is able to understand what happened to her it would be a proper facer for anyone, however experienced, to explain it

Contact is always a possibility unless the courts/SS explicitly recommend against it for safety reasons. Even then a 15/16 old can simply search on FB and jump on a bus if they are determined.

Lots of children want to have some sort of contact at various stages in their lives even in the most awful of cases.

In our case birth mum just turned up at our door at 2am one morning

[friendlyflicka]

MrsDV, as a child grows up - in these circumstances - will they be sensitively made aware of why they are not with parents? Will they ever have the chance to decide for themselves if they want contact as an older child?