Six Wives with Lucy Worsley

[TheHiphopopotamus]

Anyone else watching this? (Apologies if there's already a thread, I half looked and couldn't see one).

I really like Lucy Worsley but do we really need yet another programme about Henry VIII and his wives? There's so much history in this country and yet we seem to return over and over to the Tudors.

Am I being curmudgeonly or is this bringing anything to the table that we didn't already know?

[Lucydogz]

The History of Women's Bodies by Shorter is a fascinating (and horrifying) read.
Let me know what you think of the booktribpot. I only learnt about Margaret of Austria when visited Mechelen last year, where she lived while acting as her nephew's regent, ruling the Spanish Netherlands. What a woman!

[DeepAndCrispAndEvenTheWind]

Tribpot

The book, "Sex Lives of the Tudors", gives a good overview of the various births along with some "commoner" births of the times.

[tribpot]

Btw I definitely want to read more about Margaret of Austria, thanks for the recommendation Lucydogz!

[tribpot]

Of course, what KP needed more than access to our contraceptives is the high standard of our obstetric care. Globally we still have a long way to go but infant and maternal mortality in the West are unbelievably low compared to even 50 years ago.

There was a great Beeb documentary about the Air Transport Auxiliary, which featured Pauline Gower. This amazing kick-arse woman basically created the women's division of the ATA, did incredible work in the war and then what happens? She dies in childbirth two years after the war ended. Our entire history is overshadowed by the immense risks of childbirth.

Now if Lucy wanted to do a series about history that did break new ground, covering the history of women's health and particularly maternity, would be very interesting.

[Lucydogz]

I also think we've heard too much about the Tudors, and particularly the wives, but I could watch Lucy W reading a telephone directory.

However, I found last night's episode irritating. I haven't read anyone referring to Katherine Howard as a slut, or Katherine Parr as 'the dull one'. She also made it sound as though KP was the leading light of the Reformation (she wasn't). And no reference in the K of Aragon bit to how important it was that she was the aunt of Charles V. All very low level.

If anyone wants to read an interesting book on women rulers of this period, try Games of Queens (naff title) by Gristwood. It extends the field to Europe and the fascinating women of the period - especially Margaret of Austria.

[BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings]

Contraceptives and antibiotics!

[Trills]

I am so very glad I live in a time with contraceptives. Poor Katherine Parr, getting through all of that and then dying in childbirth at 36.

[BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings]

The stuff about Katherine Howard last night was rather sad. I'd taken her being a "slut" (bleugh) with a pinch of salt anyway, but to find out that she had been abused as a child (used as proof in her trial, ffs!!) and that probably led to her being susceptible to having an affair was quite upsetting :(

[SirChenjin]

Or indeed from other periods of history- having carefully studied Aiden Turner filling out a pair very nicely thank you, I feel I am now somewhat of an expert on breeches.

Slurp.

[Trills]

I realise that breeches are of course what one would wear if one were dressing up as a Tudor!

[Trills]

That post about Queen Caroline is great - thanks for the link! :)

[SirChenjin]

And equally understandably some do - it's simply down to style and preference.

[tribpot]

Yes, the dressing up is a more style thing and plenty of excellent female TV historians don't do it, it's Lucy's schtick. Janina Ramirez, Helen Castor, Bettany Hughes, Suzanna Lipscomb et al understandably don't feel the need.

[coldcanary]

Tony Robinson dresses up in period costume at the drop of a hat - he did for every episode of the worst jobs in history.

[SirChenjin]

Of course - why not? Edwardian Farm/Two Men in a Trench are 2 off the top of my head where real live men actually dress up and act to bring the events to life. Breeches were involved iirc - it's what they wore in them days.

[Trills]

If this were presented by a man, would he be dressing up and playacting? Perhaps in some nice breeches?

[PrincessPlod]

I love it as it's giving a different insight to each wife.

[CountFosco]

Also agree that it's great to have a prime time history programme about women presented by a woman though.

I saw an interview with the controller of either BBC2 or BBC4 a few years ago saying she had made a deliberate choice to have more female and northern 'expert' presenters, especially history and science. I'm in a lovely BBC4 bubble where there are lots and I guess it's no surprise Lucy Worsley is the first to move across to BBC1.

[BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings]

I am watching. Agree with upthread that it's a shame it's about the six wives again and not someone lesser known. Also agree that it's great to have a prime time history programme about women presented by a woman though. Hoping the viewing figures are good enough that they justify future programmes about less well known women.

[SirChenjin]

LW has said (in response to that comment) "Unwittingly, I've become a poster girl for opting out of childbirth, after an interview in which I said I had been educated out of the natural reproductive function. My comments were misinterpreted and sounded darker than I'd intended. It was never my intention to tell women what to do with their lives or be disrespectful to mothers. All I had meant was that while growing up in the 80s, the overriding message from teachers and parents was, "Finish your education", and maybe that early conditioning stuck in a way they had not intended".

I completely get that (although I do have children) - I grew up in the 80s too, and it suddenly became apparent to us that we didn't have to have children like our mothers did and that we could go to university which previously had been something that only the wealthier families could afford. Hell, we could even be PM! Education was the key to success, rather than Youtube or reality TV shows.

[CountFosco]

We were talking about it at work and officemate at work had never heard of Lucy Worsley! Think this might be her first series on BBC1 so that makes sense in a way .

Isn't Lucy the one who said she has been "educated out of reproduction?" I.e. Too educated to have children?

Yes, she did. I'm a bit older and I have to say I knew exactly what she meant (although I have had kids). Britain had high levels of teenage pregnancy in the 1980s and my secondary education really emphasised how bad having children was (quite a few girls at my school had abortions) and how it would ruin your prospects. We are the generation that has delayed having kids as late as possible, lots of my friends had children in their 40s and a significant number don't have kids at all. I don't think I would have had kids if I'd not married DH who was desperate for kids and went PT when our eldest was born and has taken hits to his career for the sake of the family. If he'd been more traditional in his views we wouldn't have had children. It's not really a logical decision for educated women is it, children bugger up your body, your career and your bank balance! Most of us still do it of course.

[absolutelynotfabulous]

I'm watching it, but I find her style patronising to say the least. However, she DOES sometimes come up with something a little bit different...i liked the bit where she was reading the love letters from Henry to AB, and I hadn't quite realised how long the KA/Henry marriage was. However she didn't seem to analyse the circumstances of the divorce, she didn't dwell on the alleged crimes of AB, and there was no mention at all of Cromwell..boo!

Reminded me of a less horrible Horrible Histories.

[VodkaJelly]

I am really enjoying it.

[SirChenjin]

I love it too - but LW is one of my girl crushes and can do no wrong in my eyes. I was also educated in Scotland and so my knowledge of the Tudors is quite limited - this series is very watchable esp as it's from the wives perspectives as opposed to many other history programmes.

[Gwenhwyfar]

I'm enjoying it, but agree that it's yet another programme about the same thing and it's also very 'simple' as if aimed at children. I'll continue to watch though.