Scared DD will go completely off the rails

[Sohardtochooseausername]

DD is 12 and has been at 3 schools. She is au adhd and very hyperactive. She finds it easy to make friends but very hard to keep them.

She has always got in trouble at school for inappropriate behaviour eg shouting out, answering back etc but she never seems to understand why she is in trouble.

At her current school she has joined a gang of girls who seem to accept her but I’m concerned they are taking advantage of her desperation to have friends.

She is away this week on a school trip and I’ve found messages on her phone which were done at sleepovers and during school time. It looks like these girls are egging her on to message kids they know with mean messages. She is sending pictures of herself to them growling and putting her fingers up.

I’m horrified and have asked the school to have a conversation asap. Not least because whatever education they’re doing on mobile etiquette hasn’t landed.

When she gets back from the trip I'm at a loss what to do. I will restrict her phone use heavily but not sure what else. As she heads into her teenage years I can only see this stuff becoming worse because she just can’t see what she is doing wrong and I’m terrified she will get into really bad trouble one day.

Has anyone got any experience of this?

[CabinetofMonstrosities]

For a start, take control of her phone as she is clearly not mature enough to manage things there. No messaging apps, you look at it every day.

Secondly, a proper chat about how things are. Keep lines of communication open between you. Does she have any nice friends? Support and encourage those relationships.

[Sohardtochooseausername]

Yes she definitely isn’t mature enough to handle the phone. It’s a fine line these days because their social lives are so dependent on them. I’m going to strip it to texts and calls.

She has one nice friend from her old school but she says she is ‘boring’ these days. I think by comparison to the stuff this new gang gets up to. I’m scared shoplifting / other dares will be next.

[itsgettingweird]

If she says her sensible friends are boring and is thrill seeking through inappropriate behaviours I'd look at finding some more sensory heavy activities for her.

Does she like swimming, tennis or any type of sport where she can get sensory feedback and get the thrill through competing?

It'll also take her time up and she'll find other friends through these activities.

My autistic son found swimming a massive sensory meeting activity.

[CabinetofMonstrosities]

@itsgettingweird

If she says her sensible friends are boring and is thrill seeking through inappropriate behaviours I'd look at finding some more sensory heavy activities for her.

Does she like swimming, tennis or any type of sport where she can get sensory feedback and get the thrill through competing?

It'll also take her time up and she'll find other friends through these activities.

My autistic son found swimming a massive sensory meeting activity.

This is a brilliant shout. My DCs love their football, climbing and swimming in the sea - it seems to meet the dopamine hit that they might otherwise get in other ways.

[Sohardtochooseausername]

@itsgettingweird

If she says her sensible friends are boring and is thrill seeking through inappropriate behaviours I'd look at finding some more sensory heavy activities for her.

Does she like swimming, tennis or any type of sport where she can get sensory feedback and get the thrill through competing?

It'll also take her time up and she'll find other friends through these activities.

My autistic son found swimming a massive sensory meeting activity.

She actually is in a sports team and trains 14 hours a week with them. She has a ridiculous amount of energy. When she doesn’t do sport she is a lot worse.

[ghislaine]

If she has ADHD perhaps she needs her current medication adjusted or to change to a new one?

[Sohardtochooseausername]

She’s not on meds… Maybe that is something we should explore.

[waterrat]

Hi op, my child is autistic I fully understand the stress over phones / risk taking.

Firstly - it's normal. I have a 12 year old and going through his whatsapps believe me there are many kids who clearly lack the self regulation to behave properly - despite all the many warnings they get. Some children just do sturggle with this much more than others.

Some mistakes/ bad behaviour in early days are normal!

remember the stupid behaviour of our own childhoods - prank calls, mean words - its sadly part of life, but we are seeing this all unfold with phones added in. It doesn't mean your child is unkind or a lost cause.

I don't believe in blocking fully phone use - I think you just need to heavily monitor - that way you can talk to her constantly about phone/social media rules. I use an app called qustudio that allows me to see every single bit of activity on my kids phone.

I am no expert on medication but - being unable to behave sensibly on phones is well within parameters of normal teen behaviour! unfortunately.

I agree that you need to keep her very busy, encourage risk taking in healthy ways - find ways to wear her out and be occupied in healthy ways.

I'ts a bloody minefield parenting nowadays especially when a child is particularly vulnerable.

[itsgettingweird]

@Sohardtochooseausername

She’s not on meds… Maybe that is something we should explore.

I've also heard caffeine can work and a cup of coffee in the morning can help.

I'd do your reasearch first or try it in the holidays

Thing with medication is it's great to help balance the brain chemicals that are unbalanced. You have to watch its use in sport competitions though and often have to get certificates.

[Octavia64]

In your shoes I would seriously consider meds.

Many AuDHD teens really struggle with phone/social medial use, I remember my DD emailing a friend's parent to tell her she was a bad mum! We put moderation on email after that.

If she is thrill seeking then sport may not be enough, maybe worth trying some more "extreme" sports like climbing or martial arts?

[Sohardtochooseausername]

Love this reply @waterrat

Shes my only child so I feel out of my depth so much and just don’t know what’s “normal” as normal for her always gets frowns from other parents.

I spoke to the school today and they were very helpful. So I’m feeling a lot more positive than I did.

Thank you everyone who held my hand a bit in this thread! Parenting is so tough!!

[Treeinthesky]

My bf has unmedicated adhd. He used meds as a child. When he went of the rails he came of meds and was in prison in a year. He's also addicted to vaping thc which is weed as i hated the smell but it calms his adhd he is in and out of work ad csnt take authority. Anyways since been with me we have re referred to adhd services he needs meds. Get ya daughter in meds let her experience a normal life. I'm so excited to get my presumed adhd child on meds

[Autienotnaughtie]

Meds would help massively with energy levels and tics like shouting out. You understand that isn't disrespectful behaviour?. It's an ADHD trait.

How supportive is the school does she have support in place?

In terms of social skills she may well struggle to understand some of the complexities of friendships and may think people are her friends when they are not. Definitely careful monitoring of her phone. And encourage her to tell you about her friendships.

[Grimchmas]

If there's time in the sports schedule/make the time, martial arts is a great shout.

[ilovebreadsauce]

She is sending pictures of herself to them growling and sticking fingers up

1. inadequate school education on mobile 'etiquette'
   2 )her friends egging her on
   
2. her having adhd
   
3. her being immature
   
   But what it really comes down to us that it is tgat she is unkind and lcyber bullying.It is deliberately setting out to distress other children. I think you need to look at how you have brought her up that she is a bully

[ilovebreadsauce]

@ilovebreadsauce

She is sending pictures of herself to them growling and sticking fingers up

1. inadequate school education on mobile 'etiquette'
   2 )her friends egging her on
   
2. her having adhd
   
3. her being immature
   
   But what it really comes down to us that it is tgat she is unkind and lcyber bullying.It is deliberately setting out to distress other children. I think you need to look at how you have brought her up that she is a bully

That meant to say that you have blamed other things (1 -4) for her bullying.

[Ladyluckinred]

I hold a similar sentiment @ilovebreadsauce although I wouldn’t go as far as to say OP has raised a bully. It’s sounds like she’s easily swayed with friendship groups and likely if these ‘friends’ were to suggest other, less destructive activities, she’d likely engage in them too, for the sake of fitting in.

However, OP, bullying under any conditions needs to have serious consequences and removing the phone altogether seems like a good place to start. Yes, the school can teach SM etiquette, but it really has the most enduring impact if this is being handled at home. That includes explaining the group of girls are using your daughter as a pawn to distress other students. Which is never okay as they too have the right to a peaceful education.

[Sohardtochooseausername]

I haven’t deliberately raised a bully.

i have followed all the books. When we first started seeking help with her we were put on parenting courses and given books to read but for whatever reason she just doesn’t understand what her behaviour looks like to others and also what the consequences of it are.

There have been times I thought she was a narcissist / sociopath. It’s very distressing when your child just doesn’t respond or develop like other children you see posts like yours which really demonstrate the lack of understanding I have experienced from professionals and parents for a very long time. @ilovebreadsauce

Luckily this week I have discussed with other parents and the school and I feel like we’ve really made progress coming up with a plan on how to deal with our kids and phones. DD will only be able to text and call a ltd number of people until the summer and then we will review. I’ve removed WhatsApp and have full control of who her contacts are.

I can’t - I have tried over and over - I can’t get her to empathise. But I can create a community that gets what she’s like and can help her stay safe, I hope.

[ThisOldTrout]

Well at least you could get into the phone as it was left at home and you had access to the PIN . I think you are now closing the stable door as the horse has bolted! I think having a Smart phone should be a rite of passage. 12 year old children should not have Smart Phones period. You have got her one because she has pleaded with you, because you want her to fit in, because you feels it helps her identify with her peer group and build friendships. She has shown you that she is not ready or mature enough to use a smartphone sensibly, she also has additional needs which makes it difficult for her to evaluate what she does on this phone and to see where she is going wrong. No 12 year old should be using Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Tic Toc, UTube Apps. My advice for now is to be honest with her. Tell her she is heading for trouble, that you are not happy with her behaviour, other people are not happy and you dont want to be looking for yet another school. Take this phone away or strip it right down, ensure she can't over ride your settings or better still exchange the phone to a simple touch screen analogue phone and advise her that's what's happening until you see a marked improvement in her behaviour overall. I would also take control of her social life a bit more since you are worried about the group she's associating with. She is not safe at the moment and you need to take stock and make a risk assessment of what she does and where she goes independently. Don't let her sleep over in homes that concern you with girls that you feel are a poor influence. Probably the nice girls find her hard work and tiresome, they dont do risky things, shes probably not in their classes either because she's not giving her best in her work while she...and her friends are disrupting the class and calling out. Its not nice even having to teach classes of kids who behave badly, I can tell you. Put some boundaries in. She's 12 not 16! Most parents are on the path to independence training and regulating out and abouts. No you don't want her caught shop lifting. No there is no need for her to be hurtling around town in groups of kids. Get a routine going. Ensure you get regular feedback from her school on her behaviour in class work ethos etc. Fill hervtimecsobshes not going offcatcactangent becausecshes unavailable. You are going to have to reign her in. I am a retired teacher, I query many of these diagnoses of Autism and ADHD....believe me this spectrum must be massive!! Every other child has the label. That is not the case, personality traits are a more accurate description of of these behaviours . You need to get a grip on her for as she gets older you will have real issues. Be guided on the medicinal matter, they have side effects and you dont want to go down that road unless necessary .

[Sohardtochooseausername]

Thanks @ThisOldTrout. I have stripped down her phone to calls and texts and Duolingo and audiobooks. She is not happy but seems to have accepted the boundaries.

I think you’re right, keeping her busy is key.

I get what you’re saying about ‘the spectrum’ but I really don’t understand where I have gone wrong with my parenting if neurodivergence isn’t a thing. Honestly. In terms of the things we have done to set boundaries, do discipline, consequences etc. we have been no different from the parents of her ‘nice girl’ peers as far as I can see. DD says we are the strictest parents of her girl gang. I have spoken to them and they are all just as terrified of the impact of phones and the internet as I am. It helps to talk and not fear others judgment.

[TallRoses]

I query many of these diagnoses of Autism and ADHD....believe me this spectrum must be massive!! Every other child has the label. That is not the case, personality traits are a more accurate description of of these behaviours . 

Luckily we have actual qualified medical professionals diagnosing, not retired teachers.
You sound like the teacher who dismissed my son’s ASD diagnosis and massively failed him.

[Sohardtochooseausername]

My DD has had teachers like this too @TallRoses . As she’s a girl it’s been - and still is - an uphill struggle to get taken seriously on this. This is in spite of very early signs of hyperactivity and on going challenges with writing, etc. I hope your son has the support he needs now.

[SherylBee]

I empathise with your challenges OP, it really can't be easy, but your DD is being mean to other children and you must consider the effect her behaviour will have on those children. My DC was relentlessly bullied in secondary school by a boy with ADHD who got away with it time and time again because his parents claimed that his behaviour was due to his medical issues. The most the bully ever got was a warning, my DC went through hell and in the end had to change schools, even now years later the bullying is having an effect. Your DD is still young enough for you to have some control on what she does and who she spends time with. I am in no way implying that ADHD causes children to be bullies but it mustn't be used as an excuse for bad behaviour when that behaviour can seriously affect others.

[Sohardtochooseausername]

I think I’m doing all I can to mitigate what’s happened in this situation. I’ve spoken to all the parents involved, I’ve stripped back her phone use and have had serious words with my kid.

I don’t think adhd is an excuse, but it does make some of the straightforward discipline stuff much harder when it simply does not land as a message or stick as a lesson. I’m looking for parenting advice here, not a pile on. She has a hard time too because the kids just don’t like her a lot of the time because she is so difficult. It is quite heartbreaking.