I'm exhausted and worn down by DS - and he's only 12

[minxthemanx]

Sorry to off load, need a gentle shoulder. I'm feeling like a crap, inept parent at the moment, as every day is a huge battle with DS1, who is 12 and a half. Basics: he has always been very full on, v bright kid who needed loads of stimulation as a baby/toddler and never stopped talking/questioning/thinking. Generally a lovely child, sensitive and caring, but very very argumentative. He is always right, of course. Now hitting teens, and horrendous. Every day there is a new "I want" - beats headphones (£150), new phone, new guitar bigger and better than the one he has, new control for PS3 (he broke the 2 we had, by throwing them on the floor in temper.) We say NO to all of these demands. On a daily basis. Which then erupts into a tantrum, door kicking, sulking in room, spending hours on instagram.facebook and other works of the devil like those. He's had his phone confiscated many times, and PS3 games taken away.

I feel so drained tonight - it has all kicked off again because I said, for the umpteenth time, no I will not buy you a new PS3 controller. You broke it, you buy a new one. Argues: but I need my money for other things, (trendy t shirts, etc). Tantrum, stomping. It gets worse - having been told 'no' to the new guitar, he wrote a letter to my Mum, asking her to buy it for him!!!

Horrible behaviour, and I know you're all going to tell me it's normal. How the heck do you cope with it? We're trying to be firm and consistent, but very supportive in terms of running him around to his beloved cricket matches, training, meeting friends. Just finding it very hard to battle with him every day, and having no 'nice' time together at all. He is so vain, and stroppy, that I don't really want to spend too much time with him! DS2 is 7, and a dream, thank God. Any advice welcome.

[LastingLight]

If a family simply cannot afford all the luxuries and that's why a child cannot have stuff then he must definitely know and understand this. However that doesn't mean that if the family can afford luxuries their children should have it all. Our job as parents is to prepare our children for adult life and in adult life you don't get something for nothing.

[Sigyn]

I don't have a kid of this age quite so no advice.

Just to say one thing. I went to a grammar school-one of the girl versions of one of the best grammars in the country.

And it was hard financially. My parents were poor as hell, basically. Students for part of my childhood, then on low wages. Totally understood all of that but it was just hard when other kids were off to their second homes in France for the half term and my parents were trying to work out whether we could afford the National Express to go see my granny in the country.

OTOH, I was aware of this, and I would never have dreamed of nagging my parents for stuff. They were open about money because they had no bloody choice . I got a job to pay for the stuff I wanted.

This is a suggestion from someone who is about a year behind you so feel free to ignore it. But one thing that was helpful for me was that we had a family identity that wasn't tied up in money. In our case we were dirty hippies. But I'm just thinking, time together which is specifically not about in any way the spending of money, might that work?

(watching thread with interest for general tips)

[rabbitrisen]

I have had a reread of your posts, and no perhaps he isnt spoilt. I think it was your use of gadgets taken away, and all the sport that you take him too which made me think that.

You say that he is very very vain. And that is a problem, together with the things that he sees others have.

As another poster may have sent, I think that he needs to see some of your finances to see that it just isnt possible.

As regards his vainness, either he is going to have to work for it, or perhaps learn to track down some bargains?

[Timetoask]

It is certainly a different world for kids these days! When I was 12 I was aware that my parents had to think carefully before spending (having 5 children and with my dad not a spring chicken anymore, didn't leave a big pot to play with). If I wanted to go to the cinema with friends, my parents would give me the money needed for the ticket and something to eat.
The idea that at 12 I need to have money to survive in this "world" was ridiculous.

I see friends of mine giving their 7 year olds £5 or even £10 for "feeding the pet" and I really think they are giving the kids a very wrong message. The kids should be feeding the pet because that is what their job at home, not in return for any money. I agree that kids need to learn the value of money and understand that you have to earn it, I gave my 7 year old £10 after he passed his grade 1 violin exam, he had to work for months to pass the test, that took work therefore I rewarded him with £10.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

YY RhondaJean, that's it exactly.
When I get the "can I have an IPad" thing, well, I genuinely couldnt buy one even if I wanted to, so when I say "yes-you can save up for one when you get a job" is me holding up my hands and saying "I have no way of doing this for you-how are you going to plan to do it for yourself?"
The ball is batted right back to them straight away.
I do think it's a control thing, definitely.
It's like, you are the providers of all that is desirable, and maybe it's worse when your child thinks you are saying no just because you can, rather than because you can't afford it, or don't want to encourage label worship etc.

[Takver]

X post minx.

[Takver]

"Facebook - you have to be 13 according to the rules of FB so why has your son got a FB page? "

Tricky - we gave into facebook because in dd's school FB messaging seems to be the social contact of choice between friends - so if you have a child that struggles socially, making them yet more 'out of the loop' can seem like a really bad idea.

[minxthemanx]

Thanks ladies, interesting. I like the idea of saying ; how are you going to, pay for, it" rather than "no." I don't accept that, he is spoiled though; the point, of this, thread is, that, we DON'T give him the things he asks for, and endlessly say no. Facebook was allowed once, he started secondary school on.condition that I have access to it and can monitor. All the other lads, had fb and I felt it was important as he was trying to make new friends. Ditto mobile, condition was that I could see texts etc. other than that, I don't think we have spoiled him. I am going to put a, stop to instagram as he has no idea how, much internet usage it racks up. Hopefully the " I want" is an ugly phase, that, he'll grow out of, once he realises that he doesn't get these, things.

[Takver]

OP, we were having a hideous time with 12 y/o dd. She's also v. bright, always been very full on, lots of AS traits according to EP at school, the whole package.

Not the same things, in that she isn't into 'stuff', but tantrums, door slamming (to the extent of broken door handles), fights over homework, chores, screen time etc etc. Getting anything to happen, even a shower, was painfully slow at best and could potentially turn into a hideous row.

I do wonder if your DS's demands aren't so much about stuff, as about control - certainly with dd it was a whole package of different things going on - problems in school, uncertainty about growing up, having grown out of lots of stuff she used to spend hours doing (makebelieve play) quite suddenly and being at a bit of a loss as to what to do instead.

There's a really good book 'Divas and Doorslammers' which was recommended on here, I found it really helpful. A few different suggestions - the '7:1' I think it is where you have to make sure to say 7 positive things to every negative.

About a month back DH& I started a tweaked version of a rewards/sanctions plan from the book and while I have no idea how long it will last the results have really been so miraculous I actually find it hard to believe. DD is not just checking planner, doing homework, taking showers without argument but also cooking once a week, washing up, all without fuss . . . I am actually quite dubious about writing this in case I am tempting fate that it won't last!

[3littlefrogs]

I had one like that.

We used to find a picture of whatever it was he wanted and stick it on the fridge. He would have to think of ways to earn the money to get it.
He started his first business in Year 7, taught himself numerous useful skills, had several jobs/businesses, until now, in his 20s, he earns more than I do.

You need to channel that personality in a positive way.

[RhondaJean]

I heard someone say about an interesting way they dealt with constant demands

"I want/can I have a new phone/trainers/unicorn*/gold plate rolls Royce"

And you don't say no.

You say okay, how are you going to get the money together for that?

It takes away the constant no and flips over to make them think oh, it costs, how WILL I get it?

• unicorns should not be kept as pets, they are wild animals

[TeaMakesItAllPossible]

My boys about this age have access to FB, iPads, the internet, have kindles etc. and honestly I don't think it is a factor in our house .... one is very materialistic and quite entitled, the other has two years worth of money sitting around because he has no desires beyond the iPad he saved up for. It seems DS3 is going the same way as DS2 - can't even think of a list of birthday pressies. Whilst DS4 - who is only 4 - coverts belongings already. I find it odd how different they are.

[TeaMakesItAllPossible]

I have started responding to all requests that start with 'I want ...' with 'I want a unicorn that sneezes fivers.'

You have my sympathy. Some kids like 'stuff' more than others. I have one that values brands highly, the others don't. My only suggestion is to increase your time with him doing things that are fun so at least it feels fun some of the time .... and do things that require some concentration so he can't demand things. I've noticed I enjoy my 12 yo and 13 yo DSs company more if we go walking or climbing big hills, play tennis or hockey together, wrestle, dance, cook, do maths homework etc. Basically I've taken up things we can do together.

The other thing I do which seems to turn it into a more positive conversation is 'grant their wish' (see 'how to listen so children will talk etc') by responding to requests like that with the game .... If we won the lottery what would we buy. I get them things like beats in our fantasy word. I have my unicorn with fivers and feel much better.

[Pennyforthegal]

Agree with teacher.
Ds isn't even allowed on the Internet on his kindle or phone and has to ask to download any games onto kindle...and I get an e mail as its " my " kindle

[teacherwith2kids]

DS is a year older than your DS, though as he hated the all-boys' grammar school he attends the excellent mixed comp instead. He is also sporting - football in the winter and cricket in the summer, table tennis as well - and enjoys time on the PS3, Kindle and phone. He also needs ferrying to jazz band and music lessons each week. However, if I can't manage it for some reason - for example last night i was unavoidably out with DD - he will voluntarily walk or cycle several miles to get to where he needs to be.

He wears jeans from H&M, Animal hoodies, and polo shirts and shorts from Sports Direct. This has been his personal 'uniform' for several years and he shows no interest in brands. He gets pocket money (£2 per week into a 'vuirtual bank' totted up on a computer spreadsheet) but virtually never draws on it. He has jobs around the house that are 'his', e.g. mowing the lawn, and the only thing he has ever grumbled about is if his load of chores seems unfairly greater than his sister's.

He has no access to facebook, and must give me access to his phone, kindle and computer history if required (the only occasion I have looked at his texts was in a case of cyberbullying, but I know the names of people he is in contact with, and I know what websites etc he accesses). The wireless router is locked down in a variety of ways. All electronics are stored away from his room after evening bathtime.

We trust him with a lot - he is home alone for an hour before school and usually some time after school each day, for example, and he has more freedom to roam and more travel independence than many kids his age. However, any abuse of that trust gets very strictly dealt with - it's a quid pro quo.

OK, DS may turn into a monster in a year or two - but i suppose I read OP's post and I think 'no, that's not normal'. None of DS's social circle have those things, want those things, or behave in that way, and certainly didn't a year ago.

[Timeandtune]

I think in the non confrontational times you could discuss money matters / budgets/ consumerism/ advertising etc and just reach some consensus on what is within your budget and your values.


You can link his wants /needs into working hard/ saving/ getting a good job etc

I would also disengage in the difficult times( unless blood is being spilt) and I would have let him stay on the roof until he felt able to come down.

From his pov he is powerless and nagged at and I would try to empathise with that .

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

God it's a different world isn't it from when we were kids. I am really tired of reading stuff like this because what comes across is that parents seem to think it's their children's human right to have all this stuff, and be attached to a screen most of the time. It isn't.
He shouldn't be on Facebook, end of. and OP, you said he is always on Instagram and his phone, with all these girl followers and "I've no idea who these girls are, and I don't like it, but I suppose that's par for the course"
er...
You then go on to say that maybe you should be more lenient about the screen time..!

I can sympathise, honestly, and I do think the posher the school sometimes the worse the materialism and sense of entitlement is, but the last thing you should be doing is giving him MORE of what he wants.

I am starting to see signs of this in nearly 8 yr old ds, and I know it's going to be a struggle, but even now a conversation might go like this:
"Mum, can we get an I Pad? Everyone else has got one"
"Sure, you can get an I pad. When you get a job you can save up for one"

It ain't happening, and he knows it. He isn't getting a smart phone when he goes to secondary either. And yes, other kids will laugh at him. He will have to put up with it.

OP, you have been spoiling him, and letting him basically treat you like a chaufeur/cash cow. I don't honestly know what you do now, but I am sure someone with teens will come along and give you some more strategies.

Have some

[rabbitrisen]

Sounds to me like he has had too much stuff and is allowed to much stuff. And he has become spoilt. I realise that it may not look like it to him or even you, especially as he mixes with people with even more money.

[MrsTaraPlumbing]

minxthemanx
Hi. Just too say I sometimes feel the same. My ds is just 12, also a GS.
I often feel he doesn't appreciate all we do for him or spend on him - but I kind of think every generation of children have this feature,, it is not until we become parents that we realise how much hard work and sacrifice our own parents made.
(Exception being super rich families).
My children have always been bought up hearing me say "no" "I can't afford it" or "I need to save up".
So expecting me to buy things isn't a problem.

Facebook - you have to be 13 according to the rules of FB so why has your son got a FB page?
e.g. My son did buy his own iPad with savings and selling old lego. I thought it was a waste of money and we did have debates about it for several days but finally against parental advice we let him use his own money to buy one. But you have to be 13 to have an iTunes account. So any download to his ipad has to go through dad's iTunes account and as my son does not know the password this means myself or DH must approve.

Interesting your deadline for computer.phone is 8.30. In our house it is 8pm in order to leave time for reading before sleep.
Lengthy arguments about this as DS friends are on line later and laugh at him logging off at 8. DS wants to change the time to 8.30 (note he is usually asleep before 9pm.
We suggested a compromise, he must read for about 25 per day at an earlier time. We were amazed that my son did not want to do this so he has chosen himself to stick with the 8pm time.

Got to go.
But just a thought there is an excellent book How To Talk To Kids so Kids will Listen, or something like that xx

[Pennyforthegal]

There has to be a middle ground.... Ds wasn't bothered about a new phone but we gave him his sisters cast off.

My older dc were much more like this and I have been much stricter with ds for this very reason. The older two still tend to ask for and expect quite a lot.... It's definitely a behaviour issue rather than a wanting stuff issue.

[clairewitchproject]

Some days, I feel there are massive advantages in having a ds with aspergers. Mine is 12 and a half too, also in grammar. He never asks for anything at all. He has no interest in labels and I have to insist that he wear things that will not make him a laughing stock (eg if his 10 year old brother's jogging bottoms were accidentally in his drawer, he would put them on and wear them half way up his shins and not give a flying toss.) The worst we have with him is trying to get him to wash with reasonable frequency and being disorganised with his homework :)

My NT 10 year old however does understand that money doesn't grow on trees. He is interested in fashion and stuff and goes to clubs etc but thankfully he isn't yet giving me this kind of grief. In fact he worries that things might be too expensive. Maybe when he is 12 he will be like this but I will not worry at all about saying 'tough' to some of the more ridiculous excesses whilst ensuring that he has enough materially to not be socially excluded (we do this with 12 year old DS too, but the other way round, buying him stuff -within reason - that friends have even though he never asks for it).

[Pennyforthegal]

And if he broke the controller he obviously doesn't care that much about stuff does he, he has a problem with his behaviour and getting his own way . Trouble is, now is a difficult age to address this if he has had his own way a lot previously.
A serious chat is in order about what sort of young person you want him to be and grow up as and the reason you are not allowing free rein.

[LastingLight]

Can you enlist the coach's help? Have a meeting with the coach and ds. Explain that specific behaviours is not acceptable to you and that you will have to ban ds from the next match if he continues to behave in this manner. Let the coach explain to ds what the impact on the team will be. Then follow through on this... at least once. Ds must know that you're serious... if cricket is important to him this might be enough to bring about a change. It's a difficult situation, I would also lean towards taking him to matches regardless because he has a responsibility towards the team, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Pennyforthegal]

Ok my ds is 12, will be 13 in October
He doesn't have Facebook.
He is allowed on line obviously but asks permission first and is supervised and not on his phone.
He has just shown interest in Hollister and Vans , I bought him a vans hooded jacket for Easter and a vans t shirt. My dh bought a Hollister t shirt on e bay three pounds and a salt rock t shirt reduced to five quid. HW has jeans from H and M from his sister. That's the total of his trendy stuff.


Unless my ds is seriously behind, I think you are allowing too much and it needs to be toned down and his priorities put back on track... ShoolWork, sport, manners, helping out, friends .

[Martorana]

Frankly,under the circumstances, I would say (and actually have said in similar circumstances) tough.. If he knows the consequences, then it's his fault that the match is lost/cancelled not yours.

I don't think thre is a way of changing things without making tough choices.