DSs: causing us real financial difficulty

[Fiona24]

DS, 17, tethered to his computer. Rarely off it - says it's necessary for school work and, when he's not doing that, says he's talking to friends, playing games etc. Doesn't see friends outside school hours and hardly ever goes out of his own accord. His life revolves round this computer. Boy, have I tried to get him off it - I've spoken to school who say, properly quite correctly, that he can do a great deal of his work from notes and books. But DS fights me and fights me over this - frankly, for several years it has been hell. I am exhausted.

When, as a last resort, I showed him a letter from the elec co threatening disconnection as we can barely meet our elec bills (they say our usage is way over the top for a smallish house) - he was upset and seemed to really understand that his dependency on the computer has gone on long enough.

But his assurances that he would severely limit his time haven't materialised - he's now back to round the clock (bar school and sleeping) use. When I take the internet connection away, he phones me at work to insist that he needs it for eg homework - I give in and he's in again until 11pm or later.

I must sound so weak. So stupid. But his behaviour is such that I get so emotionally and physically drained and give in - He gets hostile, cold - it's nasty stuff.

Other DS holiday from Uni, making far too little effort to find work - and he's taken on a full rent from June. I'm having to pay it month by month or else he and his co-tenant would be slung out. He made an unwise, hasty choice (not for the first time) and I'm wondering how we'll manage until his loan is in. DH and I don't earn much and we have enough to do to pay our mortgage and bills - Have helped DS all I can with his CV and job hunting - the rest is up to him and although I know the temporary work climate is harsh, there are jobs (eg fast food outlets but he says he doesn't like them - the smell etc) locally or in surrounding towns. He could make a real contribution towards his Summer rent - and have money in the bag for next term. And have time to see friends and study.

So - here we are - two budget conscious parents who have perhaps done too much for these boys. Is it too late? It can't be - I'm so tired - full time work and a shed load of money worries. Words of encouragement/tough love advice - anything, please!

How's the 17 year old doing at school?

Many thanks, all of you. Every post really welcome during this difficult time. Lots of practical suggestions here - and I'm def going to heed those about taking the internet connection away (I do but give in too easily when DS wants it back), restricting time (and meaning it) and taking a much stricter approach to older DS and his half hearted efforts to get a job.

Flow - thanks very much for your analysis of computer energy costs - I've read your post carefully and certainly this puts the money side of things in perspective. Because I'm pretty frugal when it comes to electricity, I'd assumed our high bills were largely the result of a powerful PC running pretty much all w/end and every late afternoon and evening. But there are lots of other reasons why the hours should be severely restricted.

Older DS off to his uni town for a week or so - yes, I gave in and got the train tickets - but there's a reason why I'm not giving him any more (unless, obviously, he really needs it) - and that is that he is being very cagey about money. Long story but basically he inherited money and the trustee is a family member on DH's side with whom he is now in contact - DS that is - DH is seriously estranged from this person.

We have no idea if he has any of the money from the trust that was set up for the various grandchildren in the family. I'm going to put something on Legal as it's getting complicated and there may be someone who knows about trusts on it. He won't talk to us about it - and we wonder if this isn't a reason why he's putting too little effort into getting a job. I can barely afford my own bills, let alone his rent through the summer - and right now I'm thinking that if he won't level with me and tell me what is going on and, especially, if he is in fact solvent, then why should I fork out for his hefty rent. Especially as there is no sign of him working to pay it or, as some of you have suggested, living and working in the town where the accommodation is. All very cloak and dagger with him - and, as I say, he can be verbally nasty when the subject of money is raised.

Flow - also thanks for your kind concern - actually, DS would not get violent - really would not - but he can and does swear and shout at me and that itself is totally unacceptable. He can be wonderfully loving - that much is true - but right now his almost total lack of responsibility is weighing down very heavily on this family.

just seen your post, LongTime. You are right - to base my objection to overuse of computer on elec bills seems unfair when DS has had so much help at Uni (he has overspent and has had to be bailed out repeatedly).
Actually, the overwhelming problem I have with his computer is that does little else. It doesn't help his studies one jot (LittleFrieda - he's not doing all that well at school) and it's no earthly good for him. But that is set to change - the support from these posts has been pivotal. It really has been.

My parents paid nothing towards my rent when I moved out or at uni, and it did me a huge favour. Especially now, financial independence/managing money is a hugely important skill. My younger brother tried his luck staying at home without paying his way so he got kicked out and he sorted himself out.

Of course he's belligerent about finance talk - he hasn't had to talk about it. He can try being belligerent to his landlord when he's evicted! Tell him to get a job and pay his own rent. And let him know girlfriends aren't impressed by men sponging off mummy and daddy after uni ends and they want a reliable partner either.

As for your youngest, if you have spoken to the school and you know he doesn't need the internet for all work (although surely you knew that anyway), why haven't you told him that rather than let him use an excuse you know is a lie? It doesn't matter how much running his computer costs - if he can't be without it he's going to struggle in life generally. So maybe he'll sulk, let him sulk. Then once he gets over it maybe he'll go out and start living real life?

They're your children not your masters!

It sounds like your sons have no empathy, or scruples for that matter. They know you're struggling financially, and it's mostly their fault. The fact that they clearly have no plans to change their behavior just shows you're going to have to cut them off. I cannot imagine sitting by while my dad worked an extra cleaning job, on what should be his days off, to fund my rent. The eldest needs a sharp shock to knock him back to reality. It's not your fault if he's pissed away his student loan. As for the 17 year old, I'd switch to the most basic broadband going, making it impossible to download so much crap. If he's using the internet for ''homework'', a basic package would suffice. Don't pander to them.

Your real stumbling block seems to be your entirely understandable desire not to fall out with your DS. I feel this way too so you have my sympathy - I find it very upsetting when my DC get angry and upset if I 'have a go at them' about something. And it also breaks my heart that they are prepared to be selfish or lazy or sponge off me rather than be considerate and mature.

But you have to face facts: they clearly understand they are causing you difficulties but they aren't changing their ways. If you want things to change you are going to have to weather the storm.

DS1 - tell him the next rent payment is the last and he will have to sort it himself after that. Then follow through. If he loses the flat it will be because he chose not to get a job and he chose to take the risk in taking it on. Entirely his choice and his actions. Use that language - 'your choice' - and don't listen to his bleating!

DS2 - a more complex situation about his refusal to engage rather than his electricity use. What's the real problem here - slacking at school and playing rather than working? That's his choice to be honest: although what he sees you putting up with from his elder brother can't be much of an incentive for him to pull his finger out.

This is how I would deal with the situations.

Younger DS - move the computer into the family/living room. Tell him he can have one hour of gaming after school work on an evening. Position the computer so that it is in full view of the whole room.
Change the settings for the computer and put a password on so that you have to sign in to allow him access, do the same with the Internet.
When you are not home remove the access completely.

Tell him if he wants more than 1 hours access that he needs to get a weekend job, a paper round or washing neighbours cars for instance and pay for the access, work out the cost electricity/Internet usage and make him pay upfront for computer time in 10 minute slots, like an Internet cafe.

If he is rude, obnoxious or refuses to do school work take 10 minutes off the hour of access until he changes his attitude, if he doesnt he loses the whole hour.

It will be difficult at first and he will resist it, but stay strong, eventually he will learn that it is this way or no way.

As for your older DS - You need to stop letting him walk all over you. Paying for him to go visit his girlfriend when he is refusing jobs that are 'below him' is completely unacceptable, you need to stop letting him treat you like his own personal cash machine.
You can't afford to pay his rent, don't pay it! Most students have no help, he needs to learn that.
So his flat mate will get kicked out, how is that your responsibility?
And your DS won't have anywhere to live in September, he can find accommodation at the same time as everyone else.

Why can't he live in the student house now and get a job there?

If your DS is a grown adult, he needs to learn to support himself.
Stop bailing him out, or you will be doing it for the rest of your life.
Tell him that when he gets back from visiting his girlfriend things are changing, he IS getting a job and you are no longer paying his rent or giving him any money, if he doesn't like it then he should not bother coming home.
While he is away/or before he goes find five jobs, take CVs into places and apply for jobs on his behalf, explain to them that your DS is returning from where he is at uni in a week and urgently needs a job.
Then offer him those jobs, tell him if he doesn't want one he can stay at uni and find a job there, as you are no longer supporting him.

And if he is receiving his inheritance that is even more reason for you to cut him off, If he is spending it on fun and games while you are paying his rent he really does need a shock back to reality.

If he doesn't learn some financial responsibility soon he never will, and you will end up supporting him and bailing him out for the rest if your life.

I know it is going to be hard, and you are going to have to deal with a hell of a lot of attitude and drama from them both, but if you don't fight the tide you will never make it to shore, and if you stay where you are you will probably sink and drown, as my mother always says.

Good luck, and remember MN is always here for reassurance and support.

apologies I have to go out so not read it all, and I am afraid I have no advice on how to deal with the kids but my sympathy to you OP?

• just a headsup that a powerful gaming PC can have a much higher pull on power you could switch the PSU (power supply unit) to a 500w one about ten years ago when I decided it would be a great idea to build a PC - I wouldn't be surprised if they do even bigger now. You also could get loads of extra cooling bits (fans and heat sinks) which sometimes had their own power.

Ie - this could indeed be costing a small fortune to run, compared to a standard laptop or desktop.

Fiona, sorry to sound harsh but you are a real push-over - you need help. Maybe you should see a counsellor who can help you to be more assertive.

A desktop computer uses 1 full unit of electricity for every 3 hours its on.. A laptop would probably be cheaper. Personally I would just switch the internet off. I do that a lot so middle kid keeps on top of his bedroom.

The rest of the stuff I can't really add too. People can't take the piss unless you let them. Start saying no.

I think you need to have a firm talk to your oldest DS in particular.

If he is squandering an inheritance now, rather than getting a job, then he is being extremely foolish.

Open up the local paper. Show him the price of a flat or small house. Talk to him about the need to keep that inheritance money aside for when he needs it most - not fritter it away on x, y and z. That money is not going to come a second time and I assume that you will not be able to help him out with a deposit when the time comes.

You wouldn?t give in to a two-year old who calls you poo-head when you wont give him more sweets, would you? Your sons really are acting like toddlers, not adults. So when you wont give your DS money and he is verbally aggressive, or your DS2 is hostile and cold because you wont let him on the computer, why not imagine they are just little boys saying ?poo-poo head? because you aren?t giving them all their own way! Maybe that will make it easier not to take their words and attitude to heart?

It's not your job to be their friend or be nice to them when they are being a pair of entitled little shit heads. Have the Internet cut off. Sell your eldest's bed and rent his room out. And where is your husband while your son is verbally abusing you?

Does your DH back you up when you try to explain the problem to your sons? It sounds from your posts like you're trying to deal with this all on your own. What are your sons' relationships with DH like? Would they treat him with the same beligerent attitude you say they use with you?

Tell your younger son that he can't have his own PC of he can't be trusted to only use it for homework. You've seen that he's not doing that and his PC will therefore be moved into the living room forth with. He can have tonight with his PC, but it moves tomorrow. If he throws a strop, it goes altogether for 7 days (don't know if you drive but if you don't, I'm sure a friend or neightbour would be happy to store the base unit in their car boot for a week, I would).

Get control back about this. This is about your son not respecting you, not following through with agreed plans, and not progressing with school work as he promised. He doesn't need a bedroom based PC for any of these activities.

I have two DC at University and two more (one a net head) at home so you have my sympathy.

The younger one.. internet not necessary round the clock for school work and if he claims it is he's bullshitting and has only himsef to blame if he messes up when it is restricted..and REALLY restricted. Router unplugged and goes to bed with you!

Older DS.. what the hell? Too precious to get a Mc Job? Then he loses his house. WHy are you paying ANY rent for him? Why isn't he working while at university? Most students have jobs (and if he says otherwise he IS lying) and with that and their loans they get by. Both of mine are doing absolutely full on courses.. one is a med student, the other a nurse, and have had to fit their study and placements..(they haven't finished for the summer yet!) with p/t jobs to make ends meet . It's perfectly doable (and MAcDs are good employers btw.. the smell goes after a shower :) ,..DD1 did a few summer hols there )
The are being entitled large toddlers and you do need to be brave and say NO.
Both are old enough to flounce off and make their own way if they have to!

Kleinzeit's suggestion is brilliant - I think that's exactly what's going on here!

Can I just point out the long term implications of your youngest sons behaviour? This is based on my own experience. My first longterm boyfriend was addicted to his computer, the internet and gaming (as an aside, is it something like World Of Warcraft he is incapable of switching off?) (hmm)

He was an insular, boring and selfish person. Didnt seek a job out despite being mid-twenties. Stayed at his mothers house due to this. Argued with her, me, the Jobcentre, it was masking his depression, lack of ambition and lack of a 'real life'.

He was entitled, rude and although we split about 9yrs ago he is still largely the same now according to mutual friends.

Of course, having a job/life/loving partner/possessions/HAPPINESS isnt for everyone. But with simple steps you could shove your DS towards the realisation that he can have a better life. Make a doctors appointment to discuss his clear gaming addiction, it is a very real thing, and will require you to have a backbone and get results that suit your whole family.

As for your eldest-words fail me. And I speak as a formerly selfish and using teenager. Dont pay his rent if he is legally old enough. It will cause a scene. And it will be the making of him, character and integrity wise.