Size 16 Mannequins in Debenhams

[calamitygin]

unveiled yesterday ... is no-one talking about this??? Or have I just missed the boat (as usual)

[blue88]

@OBface - I mostly agree with you. While I would say size 16 is generally borderline, some years ago now people like Gok Wan were normalising - not just diverse body sizes - but pretty extreme obesity - IMO, this is exploitation to increase clothes sales when the emphasis there should be on losing weight and becoming healthier, not how to buy expensive clothes and "dress" the problem.
Size 8/10 5'9" - 5'11" bodies are used to model clothes, not because they are more healthy, normal or attractive (which they're not), but because the clothes can be best shown. Ballet dancers, rugby players, shot putters and weight lifters also have particular body proportions that are not an average person's - no one seems to think they should be any different.

[DowntonTrout]

Bloody hell. I'm 5ft 11 and a size 14/16.

This is not because I am fat or obese. It is because my bones are that big. I look slim but my shoulders are broad. My hips are a 12 though. I really don't think you can just call size 16 unhealthy and overweight.

[SundaySimmons]

I now live in Wales. I've noticed that on average the people are shorter, especially the ladies.

There is also a large Polish contingent in some parts and the women are very tall and very slender.

I wonder what Debenhams in Wales will do for mannequins?

[madammecholet]

Size 8-10 mannequins, along with magazines, promote anorexia, low self esteem & poor diet imo too, so which one is right?

Neither.

You can be size 8 and not anorexic FFS, therefore, you can be size 16 and not obese too.

The UK does have an obesity epidemic though. If the mannequin was 5ft & size 16 then that would be a poor message..

[tickingboxes]

Size 8-10 mannequins do not promote anorexia. The ones that are so small they have Barbie proportions (too thin to menstruate), however, are potentially damaging.

What is wrong with wanting to be a size 8-10? It is a healthy size. Size 16 is less likely to be so.

[OneLittleLady]

There isn't anything wrong with wanting to be a smaller size if that's what your body can healthily achieve. Some people are big, they have big builds and that's ok too, being big does not always equate to being fat/obese whatever, the same as being thin does not always equate to someone being healthy. I'm fat, I know I am and I'm doing something about it. A mannequin is any store is not going to change the way I perceive my own body, whether it's big or small.

[BanoffeeSplitz]

I'm curious to know, does anyone actually look at the Debenhams mannequin - say the naked one, or the lingerie clad one - and think "that looks like an obese woman".

I think - objectively - that I'd look at it & say it's a reasonably healthy, fairly normally proportioned (though very definitely not 'slim') woman of middle years.

I honestly can't see how it's harmful for that body shape to be represented.

(To be clear, I do know middle aged / older women who are extremely slim & healthy, and younger women with that kind of size of size 16 body shape who are very fit & healthy: eg triathletes, martial arts, dancers. There is a huge range in healthy body shapes!).

[BanoffeeSplitz]

this is a link to photos of real women (and men) with different body fat percentages.

There's only one photo for each category, so you don't get to see the full variation, but it's still interesting. I personally don't think the images look unhealthily fat until about 40-45% upwards, though I think that range probably is considered unhealthy.

In fact I know a really good triathlete who is the spit of the woman shown for 35% body fat (in turquoise bikini).

[MillyRules]

Sunday where do you live in Wales? Im Australian Welsh and I do tower above most of the women here. Im in the Welsh speaking North Wales area. Im also size 16 but only on my bum and am size 12 to 14 on my top half with long legs. Im also 5 ft 9 inches. I don't look overweight at all but am trying to get to size 14 cause that's were I feel most comfy. I like these size 16 dummies. It is the average size in the UK. I don't understand what all the fuss is about. Its great to see dummies of different sizes for a change. Makes women feel less of a freak. Its not as if we are talking about a size 20 dummy here. Goodness if size 16 dummies get a slating what on earth would be said if they brought in size 20 - 22 dummies.
I work in fashion as a stylist and the amount of ladies who hate their bodies is very sad. They feel bad about themselves and don't feel they deserve to look good and end up wearing shapeless garments. I show them how to dress for their shape and to show off their best bits. I would have thought there would be encouraging remarks here about size 16 dummies as it is a big step in the right direction to stop women being sooooo hard on themselves.

[BanoffeeSplitz]

"Size 8/10 5'9" - 5'11" bodies are used to model clothes, not because they are more healthy, normal or attractive (which they're not), but because the clothes can be best shown."

This is true - and I personally don't think there is anything wrong in showing clothes on mannequins of that size, especially since they usually don't look like real humans anyway, just very elegant clothes hangers! Which are nice to have around you as you shop (Photos of real people photoshopped to unrealistic proportions is completely different & I do have a problem with that).

But if the clothes were actually designed to fit & flatter a size 16 body (as just one example of a possible body shape) then they would look good on a mannequin of that size.

So size 16 mannequins might be interesting if they expose the fact that many designers do just design for one body shape. And I can think of plenty of dresses that get recommended on this forum - the Anglomania ones, say - which would look perfectly stylish draped over the size 16 mannequin.

[OneLittleLady]

Milly I don't live in Wales but am from a welsh family (south wales) and all the women in the family are tiny at 5ft or less. We also have big hips, they run in the family. It's very uncommon, when I go to visit family, for me to see any tall women there, they all seem to be quite small if not quite as tiny as the women in my family.

[ormirian]

"The pressure doesn't mean that more people are slimmer; it means that pretty much everyone learns to loathe their body and constantly feels that the should be slimmer."

Quite.

[JuneauWhoIAm]

Just because its average doesn't make it right.

There are a few size 16 healthy builds.
I know maybe one or two. The rest, not so much.

Actually, while we are on the subject of clothes and shops. I resent paying the same for a size 8/10 top and seeing the same top in a size 16/18 for the same price.
I reckon smaller sizes should be cheaper.

[KillerKoalaFaceFromSpace]

Everyone seems to agree that some size 16s can be fit and healthy.

Since these mannequins are made of cold, hard plastic with no lumps and bumps I think we can all safely say that they will be based on a "healthy" size 16.

Can some of you stop being so obnoxious now about how a bloody mannequin is "normalising" an unhealthy lifestyle? It's absurd. They are just trying to sell clothes.

[polyhymnia]

Quite!

[MillyRules]

It is the average, size 16. Its not wrong, its just a size. Doesn't make a woman fat, just makes her a dress size 16. So what if some people are overweight and don't fit your idea of "normal". People do come in all shapes and sizes and some people are naturally bigger than others and may even eat less. It is what it is.
Its not nice that women are judging other women by their size. Size 16 is fine and its not obese. Nothing wrong with any size body. We are all different.

By the way, you do pay more for bigger clothes in more expensive boutiques.

[MillyRules]

Sizing nowdays depends upon which shop you are in. Some size small, some size big. Just a case of trying on what you like and to hell with the size on the tag.

[Pipparivers]

juneau if it makes you feel any better, manufacturers often don't quote a different price for larger garments until they get to size 20/22 plus. But where they do, I agree the customer should pay the premium.

[kaumana]

kid It would be interesting to see what height,hips, waist size the mannequins are. Does anyone know?

TBH I would rather see this rather than a size which as we all know varies from store to store and often within stores.

[louwn]

juanfanjo
How on earth is a size 8 too slim? Especially a modern size 8. I am this size in most shops and I look toned and healthy, exercise several times a week and eat a good, varied diet including the rubbish. There is no way on earth you would look at me and think I looked anorexic!

[kaumana]

Louwn I agree with what you say re "modern" sizes. A size 8 is not tiny, though back in my teenage years it would have been as it was the smallest size available and none of us young skinny things would have got into a pair of size 8 jeans. The norm was a 10/12

However, I would like to see more measurements being used ie waist 28 hips 34 etc so that online shopping is easier.

[Strumpetron]

FGS as 16 is the average size it is by definition normal so it's tough. Moralise away but most people are around about a size 16 so why not show the clothes on models that size? Are you saying that people should be hidden away if they venture over a size 12?

Right so with your logic, if we carry on the way we are going weight wise and size 20 is the 'norm' in a few years - mannequins should be like that too? Regardless of health issues this goes against?

I have not once said people should be hidden away if they are over a size twelve, don't put words into my mouth. I'd be hiding myself away for one

What I am saying is just because it is the norm now doesn't mean it is right and it shouldnt automatically become 'accepted'. People should be able to get nice clothes to wear whatever their size, they shouldn't be hidden away no, but this way of thinking 'oh most people are like this now therefore it must be okay' is inherently wrong. How do we expect future generations to know what is and what isn't healthy if we keep altering to what suits us?*


*by the way I am fully aware there are size 16 people who are not overweight, and are healthy, as do I know that a lot of slim people are unhealthy.. we should have a median model.

[JuneauWhoIAm]

Milly, most boutiques I would shop in don't go past a size 14 so I imagine more specialist size boutiques would charge a premium alright.

I was talking high street/department stores for my earlier example.