How do you know if DSC is being coached by RP?

[dignifiedsilence]

I am asking this question purely out of interest. I have read so many threads on this I just wondered other than them actually telling you themselves has anyone noticed changes in their behaviour that would suggest them being told how to behave around you as a SP?
Thanks in advance :)

[kalpamum]

Thanks NotaDisneyMum. DSD is not rejecting DP, she just wants him to visit her there and she wants no part in mine and my DD life. Ex has made it clear that she will not stop her seeing her farther or other members of his family but is not prepared to send her to us when she says she is unhappy.
Over the last 6 months DSD has been coming but obviously is having a hard time at home having to report everything that happens, texts constantly from her mum and DSD lying about not having fun here, She then has to listen to her Mum discuss in length things that she is not happy about to DP (ie me looking in her school book, Ex complained to DP whilst DSD was pulling a face as is she was not bothered) and DP just listens not arguing as does not want to in front of DSD.
It is ok letting DSD know that she is welcome anytime to be part of DP's new family and is loved very much by all, but this is not going to work with a Mum that has the issues about letting her daughter come and accept a relationship with a new family, not that it is new been together for 6 years. This woman has always been manipulative and does not listen to advise about anything (this is not me talking but DP and other members of family that know her).
Why is it the child is torn between loyalties and the father has to bow to every whim. I so much at the moment want to meet up with Ex to ask exactly what it is that I am doing wrong making DSD unhappy when she visits and stating that she hates me and does not want to part of this family, I would prefer it if she could tell us the list of things that she keeps repeating she is not happy about and then try and work together to build DSD self esteem and ALL encourage her to be able to visit again. But this would never work!

[NotaDisneyMum]

kalpa my DSD was 12 when she told DP that he 'had to choose' between her and me - his reply was that there was room in his life for both, and she refused to have anything to do with him for over two years. She was supported and encouraged by her Mum every step of the way.

My DP did the hardest thing that a parent can do - he continued to parent her as best he could and refused to engage in bribery, friendship or 'disneydad'ing' even though that may well have won his daughter back.

His determination to continue to be a 'parent' paid off, because when she really needed her Dad she did call him; and they have gradually rebuilt their relationship. Once they had reconnected, I became a part of DSD life as well - and I am proud to call her my step-daughter as she is a delightful young woman.

I would encourage your DP to do the same; stay in touch with his DDs life through school, clubs etc; write to her if she won't speak on the phone or visit and ensure that she knows that he will always be there for her.

DCs reject the parent that they feel most emotionally security from; the fact that your DsD is rejecting her Dad in order to stay in favour with her Mum is an indication that she less confidence in her Mums unconditional love than she does her Dad. Your DP will need to keep reminding himself of that over the next few years.

[dignifiedsilence]

I'm all new to this kalpamum but my take on these women is you can't reason with them at all and to be honest I won't ever be even trying. I absolutely hate her and have never met her face to face. I am not angry because my OH took up with a lunatic with a clear agenda so soon after his marriage ended. I am not angry that he has continued to bow to her every whim at the expense of a life of his own because she has and will stop him seeing his daughter. I am not angry that he made his other DC lie and sneak around just so she wouldn't know he had gone out. I am not angry that she and her family look for constant ways to pick battles.
I am angry because she thinks she can continue to do these things now I'm on the scene. I am angry that her older children try to involve my children. I am angry that she is trying everything to prevent an even deeper relationship forming with my OH by arranging parties to go to and other activities in his contact time. I am angry that my OH still holds onto the belief that his DD will come to live him one day and that all this will die down. She and her family are actively brainwashing this child and everyone can see it but my OH. I mean the DC said it herself, "I don't want to stop here cos mummy says I don't like it."...that makes me angry.

Step mums I salute you as I am not sure how much of this I can take.

[kalpamum]

From reading this thread and many others; has anyone got any good advise on how to work with an ex who feels that a child cannot have a happy life with a father and 'the wicked step mother'.
I have an 11yr old DSD that is now refusing to come after 6 years of having an Ex not happy with her coming and DSD decided that she hates me and has never respected me or wanted this family.
Do we just accept this for a quiet life and OH becomes a disney dad taking her out, or do we tackle the ex to make her understand how she has contributed over the last 6 years to make DSD feel like this by complaining about the slightest thing in front of DSD. I have had many complaints from ex about things I have done which to me are only things that I would do for any child in my care (one being I told DSD to put her hood up in the cold wind when she had ear ache) In her eyes I forced DSD to do this when she did not want to, Also I looked in her school book! My OH is in a mess at the moment and does not know how to tackle this, he has never been able to stand up to her and put his opinions forward. At the moment all is quiet as DSD getting daddy to herself and I just feel like the baddy for trying to be a caring SP and not sure how to deal with this.

[dignifiedsilence]

Had it this weekend.....I don't want to sleep here anymore because mummy says I don't like it. If thats not coaching I don't know what is..

[dignifiedsilence]

Thanks for your input. I wish sc mum didn't have a bad word to say about me full stop. The trouble making older child has actually said that I broke her mums relationship up and people believe it. I haven't even stuck up for myself, I just let her get on with it although to be honest I am not sure how long that will last. :(

[taxiforme]

Sorry, can I correct what I said to "one or even both sides"

[taxiforme]

Oops.. Continued..

Person I am. The kids have to live with and adjust to two very different homes. Hard and I am sure that sometimes it causes conflict.

[taxiforme]

I think all new is right. Yes, in a very small number if cases there will be poison flowing from both sides (and more with grandparents/family ect) but the reality is that your kids (or sk) will "pick up" on things which will influence their behaviour. We can't avoid it, it's called being human.

Add into that the delicate balance of sp and blending, it gets a but more focused. I am guilty of looking for issues which explain why my sk do what they do and explain what they are what they are. Inventing (probably) this terrible drama..I say all if this facing nadm's problem with my dss (issues with self confidence possibly aspergers) and with my dsd2 whose behaviour I am trying to untangle in another post.

I don't suspect for a minute that my sk's mum has a bad word to say about me. She is just not that kind if person, I don't see any evidence of it, nor have I heard it. I truly think that what happens.. In reality is so very much more subtle and thus less harder to deal with as it asks us ALL involved in a child's upbringing to look at ourselves and change..what we can't! Being ourselves. I can't become a quiet subtle shy never spends money person who won't drive and is scared of flying, my dh's ex can't be the opinionated confident spendthrift noisy l

[dignifiedsilence]

To be quite honest I feel like I had an affair with my OH and broke their family up.....Not the case....child born out of a 6 month relationship, they never lived together and he wasn't a dad to her other children! I am the '4 years later' fiancee and me and my kids get all the crap!!

[dignifiedsilence]

Thanks for your responses. With respect mumandboys that is a good way of looking at it but if you read my other threads you will see that this is not the case. My children are still being bombarded with vile messages and rumours started from one of her older children which we are ignoring as it isn't bothering my child too much. Me and the sc were enjoying the beginnings of a healthy relationship until a few weeks ago when she started being really funny with me. IME 4 year olds are very adaptable and some normal jealousy about her dad is expected but its not that. My best guess is that she is being told to ignore me and that she doesn't like me, when she enjoys my company. I suspect this is affecting her quite badly. Her mum is the most sly, manipulative and poisonous woman I have ever come across in my whole life. She has now organised sc to go swimming in my OH's contact time. Obviously my partner won't oppose this because sc wants to go.
The whole family seem to be like this and if we see them in public they talk to my OH and look right through me like I don't exist. I don't want to start a debate but I definitely think there is some mental health issues going on with mum because of the things not only has she done to me but also other people.

[Galangal]

Its a completely different thing to her being at school. I see her before she goes and when she finishes!

I have a ball when dd isn't around both when I was single and now I have a bf. I have been without her for 2-3 weeks at times. I generally find that after about three nights I start to miss her, she is good company and funny. I miss her take on things. I just miss her.

And that's the case whether she is with her Dad or away with the school or one of her hobbies. It's not that I don't have confidence in her Dad and I'm not sad. I just miss her being around. You don't have to feel the same.

My sadness is over the fact that it became necessary to leave, and what they would really like is for us all to be together again.

[NotaDisneyMum]

If it is natural for DC's to pick up on their Mums sadness, then how come there aren't armies of DC's in schools all over the land who "feel a lot of their parents emotions, feelings, distress, happiness"? How come more DC's don't display behaviour in school that indicates that they know that their Mums are missing them while they are at school, and are sad that they don't have any say over what they do or how they are disciplined when they are there?
Why is school different? As a Mum, you have far more influence over the man you choose to be the father of your DC's than you do the adults whose care your DC is in at school every day - so surely, you should have more confidence in the former than the latter?

I miss them and I have no idea why that would ever be considered inappropriate.
Not inappropriate - just incomprehensible to me. I don't miss my DD when she goes to school, I don't miss my DD when she goes off with her friends for the day, why on earth would I miss her when she spends time with her Dad?
My DD spends every other week living with her Dad and SM; it doesn't occur to me that she comes "back" to me after being with them, any more than she goes "back" to Dad at the end of her week with me. She is sometimes here, and sometimes there; just like she is sometimes at school, and sometimes at home.

[sanityseeker75]

I think there are some parents that will not hide how they feel when their children go to NRP but also let them know that it is a healthy response to miss someone and love someone when they are not around. They use this as a way of saying it is fine for the children to miss and love them also, but it is ok for everyone to feel like that and of course that is how the other parent feels when they are at RP home also.

There are others who most definitely pile on the emotional blackmail. DH's ex has told DSD in the past that she is so sad when they are not there as her DC's are her whole life and she has nothing without them. She will cry all weekend until DSD comes back to her and is she sure she wouldn't want to come early. Then on the very odd occasion when DSD has said in the past she wanted to go and see if mom was ok. When Ex text mom to say DSD wants to come and see you - suddenly she was out and it was DH that had to show DSD the message as she thought he was just trying to stop her going home.

When DSD texts mom to ask if she can go back early DH's Ex will text her saying of course she can but she will have to go with her looking for cars food shopping - basically anything boring that is guaranteed to dissuade DSD from going home.

Yes I know there are those that will say she is just facilitating contact but its not convenient every time? well stop texting every 5 mins then because how are the kids meant to relax?

I know there are some that would never dream of making their kids feel split loyalty but lets face it - there are some that most definitely do and whatever spin you put on it - it is not fair on the kids

[Galangal]

I love your post mumandboys, you talk sense.

Of course I am sad that my girls don't have their parents together. I know both them and I are massively better off since I left, but it doesn't stop me feeling sad when they talk about wishing we were all together again.

And of course I am happy to have them back. I miss them and I have no idea why that would ever be considered inappropriate.

[OrlaKiely]

I came to this from a totally different place, to do with actual coaching - ex keeps insisting that his new wife 'could' get ds through the 11 plus. Each time I see him (once a month or so) he tells me how she got her dd through it, against all the odds, a few years ago.

Each time I ask if she could help ds with some coaching (have even offered to pay) and he says it would be 'awkward'.

So why do I need to be told how great she is, then? GAHHHHHHHH

[NotaDisneyMum]

Mummy is sad because she never had DC's to send them away EOW, midweek & half of all school holidays...

This particular Mummy didn't have a DD with the expectation that she would always be with me, or that I would be the sole influence in her life.

[allnewtaketwo]

Back to the OP
I used to be able to tell because DSSs would ask questions of an adult nature that there was simply no way that children that age would have thought of

I think as they get older , it's not so much that they're coached, but children can come to adopt their parents views, and clearly when a child spends eg 85% of their time with one patent, then it's most likely going to be that parents views they adopt. This tendency is so much greater IF the child is actively discouraged from having thoughts or opinions of their own, such as my DSSs. And that's clear because it pervades every aspect of their lives, to the point they're alienated from their peers and a normal teenage life

[CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs]

I know that my DC's need a good relationship with their father - in fact, I insist upon it.

But it doesn't stop the sadness at night when I can't look across my room and see my 2yo's angelic face in bed, does it?

[CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs]

Mummy is sad because she never had DC's to send them away EOW, midweek & half of all school holidays...

You can hide it as much as you like, but it's still there.

[LookingForwardToMarch]

Yes they sometimes do. Mine and my sds relationship was developing nicely until her poisonous mother stuck her oar in.

It started with small incidents. Sd was brushing my hair and styling it with little clips when her mum rang. Mum must have asked her whay she was doing said' doing Lookings hair and making it pretty'

All of a sudden sd got very upset, shouting no and the phonecall ended. Sd told us her mum told her to backcomb my hair so it looked like a lion and then get some scissors and cut it!

Sd was 7 at the time, she is now 10 and has been more withdrawn and distant from me at every visit.

Makes my blood boil that she was perfectly happy and enjoyed my company before. Now I have just had my first dd ( who despite mums protests IS sds sister) and we are starting to see an improvement.

Just sucks that a rare few motherd would rather hurt their dc than let them be happy in the nrp family.

[SwishSwoshSwoosh]

I think 'should they occasionally note that I am a bit down... I am not going to feel guilty for loving them' could feel like a heavy emotional burden to a child.

[NotaDisneyMum]

You don't want taring with the 'wicked step mother' brush? Then accept that sometimes life is what it is and that RPs don't set out to cause problems or be difficult. We just want an easy life, free of hassle without anyone and everyone trying to second guess our every move and assume everything we do is about upsetting the ex.

So when my DSC Mum says to DP that she doesn't want her DCs to spend time with him - that's just her wanting an easy life, and DP shouldn't assume that she's doing it to upset him?

Right.

[Beamur]

My DP was (and still is) sad when his kids are not with him. He doesn't say so to them, but he just misses them being there all the time as they would be in a family that hasn't split up.

[mumandboys123]

oh ffs....seriously? Of course I'm sad to see my children go off to dad's house. I didn't have them to wave them off into some on else's household where I have no say in what happens to them, how they are disciplined, what they do....so fing shoot me! And yeah, more than happy to have them back. Fing ecstatic most weekends as they are a huge part of my life, I love being with them and doing things with them... I'm not a fing robot with emotions that can be switched on and off to suit their step mother (oh, apparently the latest one is no more...sigh) or anyone else.

Like most RP's, I facilitate contact, I do what needs to be done and I do it with a smile on my face and a nonchalant wave of the hand as they run off down the driveway. I have full and active weekends when they are not with me and lots to tell them when they return, just as they have lots to tell me. I welcome them back into our home with open arms and a smile and a kiss and a hug and I tell them I missed them because I did miss them and I won't pretend otherwise.

You might not feel sad or guilty or anything at all negative about bringing your children up in a separated family and seeing them hurt yet again because another woman and her children have disappeared out of their lives. But I do. Do I express it? Do I actively seek to keep the children with me at all times by asking them not to leave me or texting them or phoning them 15 times a day? Do I give then a choice of seeing dad or coming out with me and eating their body weight in ice cream? No, I fing don't because that would be wrong. They need their father in their lives and they need to have a relationship with him which is as stress free as possible. And that's what I do. But should they occassionally note that I am a bit down or that I hug them extra tight, I'm not gonna feel guilty for loving them.

You don't want taring with the 'wicked step mother' brush? Then accept that sometimes life is what it is and that RPs don't set out to cause problems or be difficult. We just want an easy life, free of hassle without anyone and everyone trying to second guess our every move and assume everything we do is about upsetting the ex.