Sick of adult SCs being so needy and entitled

[sudaname]

Right - had enough now - and guess what the last straw was that broke the camels back - a 3amp fuse for a plug. I mean he (adult SS) actually lives down the road from a diy store and actually drove past a little local diy shop to call in on daddy to get one off him. He actually texted first to check he had one and he wasnt just wanting to visit anyway for a chat or anything iyswim cos he said he couldnt stop. Last week it was a small philips screwdriver and DH sent him away with a selection as he wanted one quite small. He came back again that time too to ask for another one as they werent right - did he bring first lot back - did he fuck no!
Disclaimers now - he drives and has a well paid job and pays regular visits just to see his dad seperate from these 'B&Q' visits as l call them.
DH is a builder so son knows his dad will always have most things you can think of in the diy dept. l cant talk to DH about it cos he gets defensive - the most l can get away with is the odd sarky comment about having the B&Q sign removed etc. But he and his son just laugh

The other adult SS treats his dad like a cashpoint - £40. £50 here and there - even up to a £100 recently. Never pays him back and a third pay day has just gone past when he's said he would repay £50 and nothing. DH again just gets defensive so l can only say so much. Last month at a relatives house l had nagged him into bringing it up and he said 'you owe me some money btw' and SS said 'yeah l know l'll pay you some back when l get paid on 15th' 15th came and went - no mention. But SS did come round specially to get his Christmas present (we had gone away but he asked especially to have them left somewhere for him so he wouldnt have to wait till we came back ) - £50 worth of vouchers for a computer chain. Disclaimers - he too can drive and has good well paid job and no family etc to support.

Is it me or would you if your son owed you over £150 give him £50 for Christmas or just write off part of the debt? That's what l did last year when my son was buying my car off me - l just sent him a card and wrote off two £50 repayments for his birthday and then for Xmas. He was happy with that and wouldnt have taken money off me when he owed me money.

I just feel like we cant have anything - DH bought me a quite expensive piece of jewellry for Xmas and told me to say to his family that he'd saved up for it (WTAF?) It's like he doesnt want them to know mean daddy has some money and he's not sharing it with us - boo-hoo. We recently bought a few new kitchen appliances and SS1 commented - have you two won the lottery or something ?? I feel we cant have a joint bank account because l would go apeshit if he drew some out to 'lend' SS2. We were recently going to buy a carpet shampooer/vacuum but l 'changed my mind' after SS1 had already booked it before even bought.

Sorry am just rambling now and l dont hold out much hope for changing my DHs What's mine is theirs' attitude or their entitled attitude so dont know what any of you can suggest really.

[sudaname]

Not suggesting or condoning violence btw. Dh isnt a violent man at all but he's not a pushover either and usually if someone was stood in his face in that condescending, aggressive provocative way he would react with more than the pathetic whimper he did with his son.

Neither am l suggesting all builders are sweary punch drunk thugs. Oh FFS (l'm digging a marvellous hole) - you know what l mean !!

[sudaname]

Oh your last paragraph Catsmother - yes as stated in prev post SS does get arsey with his dad when he very occasionally does have the audacity to mention any money owed and DH does back down straight away and DH is a really tough 'mans man' (he's a builder) and l look at him and l think 'wow you really are scared of him arent you' (definitely not physically) because l know if it were anyone else stood in front of DH with that attitude then the air would be blue and they'd be shot down in flames in no uncertain terms.

For example when he called him a 'tight wad' in a mocking voice, when he mentioned the betting stake he'd not had back his son was so cocky and arrogant with him it was breathtaking and l just remember thinking l wanted to lamp him let alone DH is gonna lose it in a second. But DH just gave an uncomfortable little laugh and just left it. He didnt even say 'Who you callling a tight wad?' or anything.

[sudaname]

Sorry - DH sat next to me on settee so a bit self conscious a bout what am typing even tho he doesnt peek.

Yes *Catsmother l do keep track and record of everything he owes and all the debt collector letters he left in his room - many unopened l have shoved in a box and add any letters he gets now he has moved out into it as he says he doesnt want them - 'he's sorted it' yeah right but he obviously hasnt told anyone who he owes money to that he has moved. So he can never rewrite history or more to the point can his dad as l will just plonk the box down in front of him.
I couldnt show him this thread - he would go mental really. He is uber-defensive of his DCs particularly the 'money scrounger' one. l can get away with comments about us being like B&Q etc about his other son l think because l do like him very much. He is a very decent lad and has got many lovely traits. Just still got this mentality that whatever is in his fathers house is 'communal' even though he moved out many years ago (pre-me) and now has his own household and partner and income etc. even though over half things in here are mine from before l met DH or are jointly owned by his dad and me, so not even his dads to give away share. But apart from that - and it's unfortunate it was one of his such 'misdemeanours' that was straw that broke camels back and caused me to type my OP.

One excellent piece of coping advice l was once given on here was 'pick your battles' - might have been MJ but not sure - so l have decided to ignore this annoyance from SS1 as in bigger pic he is a good lad. Otherwise DH will be thinking 'Oh she just doesnt like either of my DCs' which is not true and l really like and am very fond of SS1 ( and SD1 mutual great relationship)
But It really is the other bugger one who's the problem. But he and l have a lot of bad history - many on here will remember but worse than that things came to a head just over a year ago just before he moved out (and l disappeared off here for a long time- too busy dealing with it all) so anything l even start to say about him - however commentworthy or reasonable it is, is cut off at the first mention of his name with a 'Dont start'.

[sudaname]

sorry back soon !!!!

[sudaname]

Sorry x posts, Catsmother Yes l do keep track of all he owes and even keep every debt collector letter that he ever threw in but the binew or still comes here and he doesnt want it

[sudaname]

An extreme analogy this is l know but my DS was brought up in a DV household - that is what he witnessed over and over as his dads reaction if he didnt get his own way or something upset him in one way or another. He also witnessed mummy being nice to daddy and cooking his tea etc etc after he had been shouting horribly at mummy and even on occasion knocking her round kitchen .

Does my son now intimidate his partner or shout at/smack his kids to get what he wants at home ? No - not a bit of it - he is the original gentle giant (his fathers large intimidating physique is the only thing he has inherited from him thankfully). Because as an adult he now knows full well this behaviour is wrong and has chosen a better path.

SS could do the same. At his age my DH is no longer responsible for all SSs bad behaviour/traits. As l have said he now knows right from wrong and if one of his mates was taking the piss out of him in this way he would soon be saying 'No' to them and he would understand exactly why he was saying No and no doubt relay that reasoning to them.

[catsmother]

I do see what NADM is getting at and she's right in that SS has been "taught" - so far - to see his dad as an ever open cashpoint. But I also agree with you Suda - in that presumably he doesn't live in a cave and must surely know, from what he reads, from chatting with friends, from TV & film, that most people think asking to "borrow" money and then avoiding repayment is wrong. After all, if he has no intention of paying it back why doesn't he just come right out and ask for a gift ? ..... hmmm, I'd say that he knows full well he is less likely to be gifted money whereas a "loan" somehow sounds more acceptable - because it at least, at the time of asking, implies repayment and would therefore be more acceptable to his dad. Basically, when he asks for a loan he's lying isn't he - he's being dishonest right from the start ..... and I can't believe that he doesn't know that that at least is wrong ?!

I do however also agree with NADM in as much that this boy-man isn't going to grow up unless he's shocked into it. I think he's taking huge advantage here (obviously) but it's not done with some naiive innocence - he knows bloody well what he's doing because otherwise, why not just ask for a sub straight ...... bottom line is he's correctly sussed his dad is a soft touch and has no qualms in exploiting that. It's really a very unattractive and unpleasant trait regardless of the fact his dad has enabled this. The only way this is going to stop is either he gets a taste of his own medicine as suggested by Suda (very unlikely), or, his dad tells him enough's enough.

Suda - don't know if you already do this but I'd keep a record of all the "loans" I knew about (wouldn't be surprised if there's several you've been kept in the dark about sad to say) so at the very least at some point in the future you can clearly show DH how much has been lent and how much has been returned. Maybe at the moment it's all too easy for DH to dismiss what's been going on by talking about "only £30" or whatever - but it all adds up and you shouldn't have to make it up. Your DH needs to have it drummed into him that he's doing his son no favours at all by carrying on like this .... he's not dealing with stuff and making it ten times worse because he knows ultimately daddy will come to the rescue. What would he do if daddy wasn't there one day ? And what sort of partner is he going to make if he spends recklessly expecting other people to bail him out ? You certainly shouldn't have to hide and/or tell fibs about any purchases you and/or DH make. So bloody what if you spend some of the money you've earnt honestly on yourselves ? Do you have a tantrum if SS goes on holiday ? - guess not - it wouldn't really be any of your business (though you'd be entitled to be peed off if the debt was still outstanding). I really don't know what to suggest .... maybe sitting DH down, showing him this thread (??) and perhaps, in order to show you're not "getting at" SS (heaven forbid a stepmother should ever justifiably complain about a step "child") reiterate your offer of financial management lessons and, though it pains me to say it (but it's cutting your losses and you'd be no worse off as I don't think the little sod has any intention of paying anything back) suggesting to DH that all past loans are written off providing this stops NOW. That all future requests must be discussed with you - because it affects you too - even if it is "only" £30, and that "loans" for anything other than genuine emergencies won't be granted. That DH tells SS that all loans have now been written off because time has shown again and again they weren't actually loans at all but money obtained under false pretences and promises - and that he's very disappointed with him. That he's prepared to forgive and forget (for the sake of diplomacy) but moving on things are going to be different and SS needs to put his house in order as there'll be no more Bank of Dad. He doesn't need to know that emergencies might be considered.

If DH baulks at all that I'd be pretty damned furious. What kind of "relationship" does he really have with his son if he effectively has to pay for crumbs of company which otherwise wouldn't be willingly given. I'm not sure how DH can take any pleasure from his company if he knows deep down it's been bought. Maybe SS would strop off - I don't know - but I very much doubt it would be forever, and if he did cut his dad off over him getting assertive then that surely says far more about him than it does his dad.

[sudaname]

grrrrr - 'dont know...' - that should have read !

[sudaname]

know what that random 'then' is for after 'SSs mates'


Ignore !

[sudaname]

Notadisneymum because he is in his late twenties and doesnt live in a bubble. You only have to watch a few American soaps or whatever to grasp there are some basic morals in life. If one of my SSs mates then kept 'borrowing' money off him when out at night or whatever and never paying it back/fobbing him off - l bet he'd have a lightbulb moment then wouldnt he - and bollock his mate or refuse to lend him anymore !!

[sudaname]

Thank you so much Catsmother on the nail. And Peta and Allnew,
Herrena you may well have something there as l am absolutely sure if 'D' SS never wanted anything DH would never see him for dust once he left home. Experience since he left has proven this over and over. l just feel so sad for DH as well as it being a bloody nuisance to me.

[NotaDisneyMum]

DCs take into adulthood the lessons they are taught as children.

Suda - your DSS has been taught that the 'bank of daddy' is never closed. He won't suddenly 'grow up' and realise that's not how he should treat his Dad - for him, this is normal - because its what he's been taught through words and actions as he's been growing up.

Even some people on this thread think its OK to repeatedly borrow off parents with no intention of repayment - so why would your DSS think differently when its been like this his whole life?

[Petal02]

PS - what will Suda's stepson do if/when his father's money runs out? He'll be completely stuck because managing money is a basic life skill, which he's never been taught. Suda's DH is actually doing him a huge disservice.

[Petal02]

Excellent post, Catsmother! Suda, you have my total sympathy.

[Herrena]

OP, have you ever considered that maybe your DH keeps supplying SS with money simply because he knows that's the only way he will ever get to spend time with his son? That would explain why he's willing to let this unfair situation continue.

[allnewtaketwo]

catsmother - as always, very well put!

[catsmother]

The very few times in my life I have asked my parents to lend me money I have approached them honestly about it, and have always suggested a repayment plan at the same time. At that point my parents could have refused of course, or indeed, could have offered to give me the money if they so wished. Instead, they have lent me money on the understanding that it would be paid back - as indeed it was, as promised.

To ask for a "loan", with no intention of paying it back is terribly wrong and a complete piss take. As I said, at that point, parents who want to help out with a gift instead of a loan have ample opportunity to say so right there and then. The fact that they later "don't ask" for it back probably has a lot more to do with family politics - fear of causing a row, fear of losing contact (yes, even with "adult" children) - than being able to write off the money lent. After all, even if circumstances change and parents decide they don't want a loan repaid after all - why not just come right out and say so ?

I'm sure the adult son referred to in this post knows - for whatever reason - his father is somehow scared to raise the issue and/or to demand repayment with any real conviction, and is taking full advantage of this. As is anyone else who goes to a parent for a "loan" they don't plan to pay back.

Yes - the father is enabling the situation by not being more sensible and assertive but good god at what age exactly are "adult" children also expected to take at least some responsibility for doing something which is wrong ? Just because you can get away with doing something unacceptable doesn't make it right does it ? It's akin to shoplifting when the shopkeeper's out the back in a little shop with no CCTV - you get away with it because the shopkeeper hasn't protected themselves with decent security and/or a staff member on the floor at all times - but it's still bloody wrong! The father must obviously accept some of the blame for what's going on but so should this "child".

And absolutely this is the OP's business ... unless they are both mega rich with completely independent finances where this constant haemmorage wouldn't make any difference, then these regular "loans" (ha ha) are bound to have an effect on the household sooner or later. In effect the OP then also ends up subsidising this irresponsible leech if she has to stump up her DH's share for things he can no longer afford to contribute fairly to. That would make me beyond mad - especially when it's not discussed and agreed with her - and particularly when this money isn't even for genuine emergencies or problems - which most people would be symapthetic to ... but for ridiculous fripperies - like bets FFS, and enhanced fines because the lazy little sod has buried his head in the sand and allowed penalties to accrue. What a bloody wicked waste of money. Even if DH was mega rich I'd still feel upset he was being taken for a ride - and however rich you are there's never any excuse (bar hospitalisation or similar) for recklessly creating more debt - repeatedly - through a stupid failure to deal with the situation asap. Something which the OP has offered to help him with (i.e. money management) BTW - which has been rejected. That money going down the drain needlessly like that - because this boy-man is selfish, entitled, and irresponsible - would really upset me ..... not only because it was impacting on my household but because it could have so easily been avoided. I'd rather see that money go to charity and do some good then see it go to the local council in fines.

The answer of course is - unless this boy-man finds a conscience - is for DH to say NO. Something is preventing him from doing this - the OP mentions fear of upsetting him. But quite obviously upsetting your wife is okay - and preferrable to putting a rocket up your adult child who's created most of the mess he's got himself into and refused all offers of help to deal with finances better. Suda - I really feel for you.

[allnewtaketwo]

No, being a parent is supporting your children WHILST encouraging them to be able to live independently. Encouraging consistent dependency into adulthood is more about the parents making themselves feel better IMO (unless the family is mega rich and no-one in it will ever need to fend for themselves)

[FrameyMcFrame]

Scarletwoman, I remember that thread about the step kids coming round for a bath at an inconvenient time

[FrameyMcFrame]

I don't see the problem tbh. If I had to pay my parents back all the money they have 'lent' me over the years I would be bankrupt. They wouldn't ask for it back anyway!
This is what being a parent of adult kids is like, being there when you are needed. He sounds like a good dad to me

[sudaname]

Thank you Allnew that's it exactly. As said before l sometimes feel as though everything in our home and all our finances are communal. Whereas as you so eloquently explain - if they were 'our' adult children l would have a voice. As it is l am just badmouthing his son, whereas if it were our son it would be motherly concern ! I would categorically say 'No' we dont just 'lend' him more money without question. We sit down with him and help him get his debts sorted out - l even offered after my little windfall that if SS handed over all his debt collector/fines letters etc over and wrote a letter of permission for me to deal with them all on his behalf l would get it all sorted for him - make offers of settlement etc, see what debts l could get reduced or even written off for him and then he could pay me back without interest, which would save him a fortune, then he would have a fresh start.I have a background in the financial industry so know how to deal with all this.

But he wouldnt hear of it cos he knows l unlike his dad would insist on being paid back he would rather just keep getting hassle free money off his dad.

Amberleaf yes sure l do - l think l said as much a while back that l know it's my DHs fault to a large degree for not wanting to ask for things or money back. His sons have obviously caught on to this and become entitled.
But l dont accept that the son who keeps scrounging for the money is blameless, the other son l can now see should get benefit of the doubt that if his dad asked for tools etc back he would l'm sure return them. I accept now this is just normal among families and although annoying at times not worth getting stressed about. He could also keep hitting on his dad for money aswell and l know he would get it - but he doesnt so at least he is independant financially.

But the other son as an adult and intelligent enough must know that if you borrow money you should pay it back and to keep borrowing it with no intention of paying it back because it's someone who you know loves you and wont like to ask for it back , then when they do you simply lie to them or guilt trip them to fob them off. That is exploitatative and dishonest and selfish. He also is very aware of my feelings and the problems it causes between me and his dad. But he really doesnt care if he is causing problems between a husband and wife, which again l think is selfish and immoral and he just carries on regardless. Sorry but l cant accept this is all my DHs doing but l do know what you mean. I will at least concede that DH 'created the monster'.

[allnewtaketwo]

Yes it probably does happen in non step families, but at least that is of BOTH adults making. But in a step situation, the SP probably saw it coming a mile off, yet could either say nothing, or not be listened to (as parents tend to want to hear no I'll of their children from a non-parent, and are very protective of the children if the separated family). That makes it doubly frustrating for the SP. OP I feel your pain

[AmberLeaf]

I can see why it bothers you so much about the money, but don't you see it as a situation of your husbands creation?

He has made it that way.

It's like a grown up version of Disney parenting!

[sudaname]

Notadisneymum l could have written your post. It can actually split a couple up cant it, l can well imagine. l want financial independence from our adult families but practically have to count these 'loans' as a regular outgoing from our household so as stated l cant even have joint savings for anything or joint finances as a married couple as l know where a lot of it would end up going !
l recently had a bit of a windfall from a relative and l would have loved nothing more than to have shared it 50/50 with my lovely DH but there is no way l could have watched his son closing in on him with some conveniently timed 'crisis'. lnstead l just booked us a break and spent some money on our home on something mainly for DHs benefit.
Disclaimer - would have been fine with and fully expected DH to 'treat' his DCs - but trust me he would have been hit for more and wouldnt have got it back.

[sudaname]

'I think' not 'l dont think'. Sorry.