NOW CLOSED: Post-natal pelvic floor and bladder problems - the last great taboo? Talk and you could win £100 voucher

[AnnMumsnet]

There is a Pelvic Floor Toner that is on GP prescription but it is not being offered to new mothers as a matter of course - how would you sell it? How would you get it 'out there'? Share your ideas and you could win a £100 High Street voucher.

We've been asked by the team behind the PelvicToner to find out what Mums think about their product and to ask how they would market it if they were in charge of the product.

The team say "The PelvicToner is the only clinically-proven pelvic floor exercise device that is available on GP prescription and therefore free of charge to any women holding a Maternity Exemption Certificate. The incidence of Urinary Stress Incontinence (USI) in women outweighs practically all other health conditions (put together) yet the reaction of women at large, lobby groups and many in the medical profession, is just to accept it as a tribulation to bear - something to get used to or one that can't be resolved. This is just not true, and over 80% of cases can be quickly and simply cured with an effective exercise programme."

"The scale of the problem is enormous. There are approximately 15,000 births each week and clinical estimates are that 5,000 of these mothers each week will go on to develop USI. The problem typically starts with childbirth but just gets worst after the menopause. Since January 2011 GPs have been able to prescribe the PelvicToner which in clinical trials proved to be at least as effective as supervised pelvic floor training with a physiotherapist, but to offer significant advantages in that it 'enabled the confident identification of the correct muscles and provided effective exercise using a mild resistance'. It was also recognised that the PelvicToner improved compliance with the exercise programme not least because the patient noted significant improvements within a matter of days, unlike the physiotherapy programme where improvement was not expected within three months."

So - the team behind the product know it's good (they have sold over 100,000) and have loads of evidence to prove it can help with this widespread condition, but face issues from GP's not prescribing it and women not knowing it is either available or effective.

As a way of getting folks talking about this topic we wanted to ask Mumsnetters - if you were in charge of marketing this product what would you do?

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
~ What information would you like to know about the product?
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

Any other comments on this issue welcome - PelvicToner very much want to get folks talking about this issue.

Everyone who adds their thoughts to this thread will be entered into a prize draw where one winner will get £100 in High Street vouchers.

thanks
MNHQ

[hk78]

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

Yes, I love a discount on anything. However, I would prefer this sort of thing to be free as I see it as a medical appliance.

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

It should be available to buy in a wide range of outlets, to ensure people are aware of it, however I would prefer to get it on prescription because of the cost.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

What about the back of toilet cubicle doors, similar to the bladder problems ads?

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

Anything that prevents incontinence/prolapse later is important - many younger women just aren't aware of this.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

£10 would be ok.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

I only care whether it works or not.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

I don't really talk about it, however I don't mind if others do, so don't see it as taboo.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

It would be good if it was available mail-order/online shopping for those who are embarassed.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

Usually, GP's can be persuaded to prescribe a product more if there are whacking great big bonuses involved...seriously, just raise awareness and maybe lower the price a little?

[brendaf]

cardamomginger
You're obviously an expert!

One thing tho'. You say 'there is a suggestion that it should be prescribed by GPs'. It is being prescribed! No should about it. If it's good enough for the NHS to decide to pay for it for me then thats good enough for me

Yeh, i'm sure there is a place for everything but i know loads of women who have been to the physio and told to do exercises but nothing happens. In my experience this pelvic toner helps you exercise properly, it shows you you are squeezing the right muscle and you notice the improvement very, very quickly. so in my book it is definitely superior to anything else and specially to just handing out a leaflet!!!!!

[camdancer]

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
A discount is always welcome!
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
Atm, I'm debating whether to go to the doctors about something very similar, but it is hard to know what is normal after pregnancy and how long to wait before it is a proper problem.
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
I bought a pelvic floor trainer after seeing it on Embarrasing Bodies. They did a trial of 3 or 4 and I bought the one they recommended.
~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
That it works quickly, discretely and the results stay for a long time i.e. I don't have to keep using it for the rest of my life.
~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
£20-30?
~ What information would you like to know about the product?
How to use it, how often and for how long.
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
no.
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
I'd rather buy it from a nice impersonal shop thanks.
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
I think you'd need to convince a lot of them that this is can be a real problem and not just a natural consequence of having children. And then you'd need to convince them that it does actually work as you say it will.

[cardamomginger]

brendaf - I really wish I was completely ignorant about all of these things! .

I just get concerned when something is being touted as a panacea. With post-birth stress incontinence, different women have different needs. I still think it should only be prescribed by a specialist physio, etc, with individualised instruction and follow-up. And GPs are unlikely to do this....

[AnnMumsnet]

Thanks for all your comments so far on this topic - do keep them coming.

The team at PelvicToner have asked us to pass on the following "Thanks for all the feedback on both the product and on the marketing. There are some great ideas on this thread which we will definitely look into (also some which we have tried many times with varying degrees of success!) - it's interesting to read such a wide variety of experiences with pelvic floor issues - and the treatment women receive.
Do continue to add your comments"

[Bubby64]

My pelvic floor is absolutly shot after the birth of my twins and a couple of subsequent operations, so I am seriously looking to try this.

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Yes-most definatly!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
I have already been to my GP with little sympathy, so I would prob have to buy one myself

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
magazines aimed at women, mother and toddler mags.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
Personal recommendation

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
I was surprised to see it advertised at £29.99, will look at buying one

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
How to ensure you are using it correctly, timescales for improvement and what to do if no improvement

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
I have already talked about it with a friend, as have had to borrow undies off her one really bad day!!

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
Hate speaking to my GP as he is not that sympthetic, but would buy at pharmacy

[Deborahmp]

I would you I'd like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product. I would go to the GP for it but think it should be offered as a matter of course! How does it work?

[carolinecordery]

I had a mild problem after the birth of my second- leakage when trampolining only- I thought I'd be good and get fit on the trampoline in the back garden after childbirth but this was scuppered by the problem which meant I didn't start an exercise programme for cardio like I wanted to.

I didn't consider it taboo to mention this to my friends or family, or even acquaintances if it came up.

I had read somewhere that incontinence after childbirth was often due not to muscle weakness or tear but nerve damage so that the right signals could not get from the brain to hold in all the muscles necessary all the time and that you just had to wait until the nerve repaired itself.

I have improved over time (it's been 15 months) without doing any pelvic floor exercises. I do find the exercises an immense drag and a bore- I thought, can't you just do the exercises to fix it when you've got a problem rather than having to bother doing them to prevent a problem you might not ever get?

Not sure if I would buy a product, and not for more than £10.
It's true that there's little medical follow-up of the mother after birth.

I probably wouldn't go to the GP if my problem was worse. I tend to self diagnose, study and self treat off the internet.

I hadn't considered it as a problem of later life. I have not really considered any medical problems of later life yet, but other campaigns have succeeded in getting later-life problems into our awareness with regard to changing our routines now (I''m thinking of osteoporosis, type 2 diabetes, obesity, stress reduction etc).

[niminypiminy]

Just wanted to add that if you are serious about addressing women's incontinence problems then

a) it must, must, must be marketed to older women not just new mothers.

b) the long term effects on the pelvic floor of birth-trauma are immense. You may have only tiny leaks six months, or two years afterwards. But once you get to menopause the effects are catastrophic. This message really does not get through. Women think they have recovered, but the damage becomes apparent much later. The marketing could say much more about this. It isn't just a 'for now' problem.

[Jux]

One night dh and I we're watching tv, there was a run of adverts - Tena lady, some tampon or other, and Immodium. When the third ad finished, dh looked at me and said "bloody hell, leaky ladies!". Well, since I had a massive ms attack I have proudly been a Leaky Lady. I suspect that the term won't go down too well in advertising though.

(I wouldn't mind not being a Leaky Lady any more though. Would this device help me, do you think?)

[teahouse]

Due to a number of issues, eighteen years after the birth of my youngest I am now having this issue seen to. I did my pelvic floors but my kids were both big, the deliveries traumatic, and they ruined my stomach muscles (you can get a fist between them), and my pelvic floor. Back then no one really cared though and I have been left to struggle on alone.

My little leaks have blighted my life and stopped me doing any number of things and now I am middle aged and am in a position to have a major op, things will I hope get sorted enough for me to lead an almost normal life (although a stomach muscle op would help if I could afford one). It has affected my confidence though and my self-esteem may never recover properly; I've been a single mum for over a decade and since things have been getting worse leak wise since I hit the menopause (aged 40), which co-incided with the end of my most recent relationship, I haven't dated properly and may not really ever date properly again.

This needs to be marketed for older woman and young mums need to know the potential impact of this problem.

[SirBoobAlot]

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Yes please!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
Pre-birth, probably not, but kind of left my dignity in the delivery suite I would still be a little bit nervous about it though.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
In women's magazines, online, on websites such as MN, in health centers.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
Personal recommendation, either by a friend or a poster on here I knew.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
Between £20 and £30.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
A "How To Use" guide that didn't make you feel ridiculous, what type of improvment you can hope for, and a time scale of when you access more help if it doesn't improve.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
I sometimes make a joke about things, testing the waters (pardon the pun) to discuss things. But bodily functions are taboo quite frequently, and discussing a problem with them is admitting they exisit, so some people can find it embarassing.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
Maybe health visitor? Or a group at a children's center.

[SchrodingersMew]

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product? Yes, I think that's a great idea.
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why? I am about to phone my GP after finding out about this to ask for it.
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised? In GP surgeries, womans magazines etc.
~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you? That it would quickly help with bladder problems. (my problem is my bladder now hangs down when full) :(
~ How much do you think it would cost to buy? £30
~ What information would you like to know about the product? As much as possible!
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo? I'm a pretty open person but I still think this is a bit taboo, even with my best friends who also have children.
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc? I think it would maybe be good to have the option of perhaps the HV prescribing it or FPC.
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner? By giving them the stats on how many women who have bladder, pelvic problems after birth and how much money could be saved by using this to avoid surgery, counselling etc.

Fingers Crossed!

[SchrodingersMew]

Have just called my Dr and waiting for a call back.

Thanks Mumsnet! I'm only 21 and have been told they wont help me surgically until I decide I don't want anymore children so I am being optimistic about this. :) If this works you may have just saved my confidence. :)

[CakesnKids]

Schrodingers how did it go? Did they prescribe it for you?S

[Pissfacegypsy]

???????

[SchrodingersMew]

I've to go in on Monday and they are going to check that the damage downstairs isn't so bad that the toner will make it worse. She said if not then they will look into giving me it, she had never heard of it before.

Hopefull!

[Choclatespread]

I would like a discount on Mumsnet.

Firstly I think GP/ health visitors should do more to discuss the problem more openly, like at the 6 week check-up, as mine didn't. I was too embarrassed to mention, & it just got forgotten about, hence I'm having to deal with it on my own.
If the GP was to ask more open questions, then it would become easier to discuss.
It needs to be advertised more openly, in magazines, surgeries, parent/ toddler groups.
I would pay £10-£15.

[MyLittleMiracles]

I would definitely want one.

I would probably not go to my gp though but would more than happily buy one for myself if they weren't too expensive and I could order it online. Personally I don't tend to talk about pelvic floor exercises to any of my friends, its just something that doesn't get chatted about.

I Think all mumsnetters should be able to order it through mumsnet and should be given a discount cos quite frankly we are amazing.

I am hoping it would be under £30 because any more than that I wouldn't realistically be able to afford and I really wouldnt want to go to the doctor. I do think doctors ignore the pelvic floor, they give you exercises and leave you to get on with it which leaves you unsure if you are doing it right.

[prettybird]

I have some damage to my pelvic floor but ironically it didn't manifest itself as "ordinary" incontinence but in my inability to keep in a tampon. Therefore, it's not somethng that would have been picked up at the 6 week check - or even necessarily in the first year while I would have still held a maternity exemption certificate. It was asking for advice on Mumsnet about whether this was normal that encouraged me to go to my GP and he was very understanding and arranged a referral to the Gynae physios. I have a very good GP and I have no qualms about discussing personal issues with him.

Turns out that all the Pilates I had been doing had been compensating for the damage that was done (induced, forceps delivery and a baby over 4kg - yet I considered that I had had a natural birth purely because it was vaginal and not a c-section which was my big fear ); I had no tone whatsoever on one side and had lost the "cough" reflex. I managed to recover it to a certain extent with the exercises she gave me, but not totally.

I may well consider a PelvicToner and a discount would of course be useful. I do notice that whenever I have a break from Pilates (like at the the moment - the summer holidays) my pelvic tone decreases.

Never really talked with friends about it - but that was partly because I had ds at a different time to when they were having kids, so not because of any embarassment. I have talked about it at Mumsnet meet-ups though!