Suspensions and in school exclusions just started for ss with ehcp and ASD

[IncessantNameChanger]

I have older boys with Sen and ehcp. Just before covid my daughter started reception school and at first she was a model pupil. However when she went in during lockdown as she rapidly started to fall apart.

She started to refuse to leave me in the morning and I asked for help. I was told that she was strong-willed and stubborn and School Staff started to drag her in physically. She had already been under pediatrics when she was a toddler for possible autism and I explained to school I thought that she might have special Educational Needs but they close that conversation down.

I applied for an ehcp and it was refused so I had to go to appeal for assessment however that was agreed and she was assessed and issued an ehcp. in all of this time while waiting for the rhcp she was reluctant to transition has got worse.

she had 15 hours of funding on the ehcp but my daughter had no ta whatsoever in her class. I asked the school what they could spend the money on, could they spend the money on the roof and they suggest they could, at same time they were telling me that my daughter's needs were getting worse and they couldn't meet her needs.

So I went back to tribunal and had the 15 hours specified in quantified so that it would go on to a ta. The moment I won the appeal my daughter was suspended from school for her behavior. Thewechool went from saying my daughter wouldn't be able to cope with a ta to saying she nows needs 32.5 hours within months. Saying that we need to go back to emergency annual view to get full-time funding. senco has said in emails that my daughter was regularly as in daily being taken out of class for morning and afternoon exclusion so she was working by herself in the hall or in the corridor. My daughter has had her second suspension last month my daughter had never had any behavioral problems at school until December 23.

I was going to pour over the behavior policy today and exclusion policy but neither on the school website. The headmaster at the last suspension meeting did something quite unbelievably unprofessional to me we are very close to that relationship breaking down. All school email focus on the parents and my dd is an after thought

[SearchingForSolitude]

Are the suspensions formal, with paperwork etc. or are they informal, unlawful exclusions? Have you challenged the exclusions?

Has an early review actually been formally requested?

[IncessantNameChanger]

The external ones are formal.
The internal ones aren't and I'm not even sure how frequent they are.

The senco said she would request a emery AR but the case officer normally ignores me so not sure if he has it. He I also useless so even if he had it, its unlikely he eould action it. I did chase him once but as I 4 weeks inside of a new ehcp I won at appeal I have no real desire to change this ehcp

[SearchingForSolitude]

Did you challenge the formal suspensions? Request information about the internal exclusions. If the school is being evasive make a SAR.

The suspensions and internal demonstrate the current EHCP isn’t meeting DD’s needs so requesting an early review yourself would be a good idea. 

[IncessantNameChanger]

No I didn't challenge the formal execulsion because at the reinterpretation meeting the HT said our surname proceeded us. We had a reputation for being aggressive. I asked him where he had heard this, which he couldn't answer. He said us doing a SAR was an act of aggression as was asking to see a scratch caused in a meltdown. That was my first meeting with him and it threw me off.

I'm going to print out her echp and there behaviour policy and go through it for things they haven't done. I'm possibly going to challenge this one I was wondering if I am making things worse being proactive. But repeated exclusions can get any worse

[SearchingForSolitude]

You can challenge the suspension and request a SAR without being aggressive.

Being proactive is the only way to ensure DD’s needs are met. Both in terms of ensuring all the provision reasonably required is in the EHCP and then in ensuring that provision is provided.

[IncessantNameChanger]

I wasn't aggressive at all. Asking for the SAR was an act of aggression occurring to the HT. He said "its not working together" he said "it implies a lack of trust". He decided that asking to see my child's data is a personal attack on his school therefore him. I have zero interest in him. I only interact with school because my dd attends it

[IncessantNameChanger]

I used a SAR template on the FOI site

[SearchingForSolitude]

Ignore the HT.

A SAR and FOI are different things. An FOI request won’t provide you with SAR information.

Is there another suitable school? It sounds like the relationship has irrevocably broken down.

[tipperaryfairy]

This sounds a really unpleasant situation.

From what you've written, it looks like when you got the first EHCP with "15 hours" in it, the school used that funding like a blank cheque, as there was no TA in the class. Then when you went to tribunal to have it quantified it was for a TA, the school no longer had free money.

They may well not be able to afford 15 hours of actual TA time because they can't make up the rest of the TA salary. That could well be why their narrative has suddenly changed and they want the EHCP to specify 32 hours, so the LA has to give them more funding.

The funding is always a matter between the school and LA, it's not influenced by parents, but it can help to understand what may be behind the school's change of narrative.

The HT starting a meeting by saying your surname precedes you is very unprofessional and seems a defensive stance. Likewise, responding to a SAR as being "aggressive" would suggest the HT knows there is likely to be material in there which would not reflect well on school, or could evidence a difference between what they've told you and what's actually been happening.

What would be your ideal outcome? What do you think your daughter most needs?

Does she have close friends at this school and it would help good for her to stay with them? Or does she hate the school and want to change?

I personally think the HT sounds unlikely to get any better in the long term, even if you do get him / school to be less defensive in the short term.

[IncessantNameChanger]

Oh god now there's the question. What do I want? For dd to have a normal childhood and go to a local school.

@tipperaryfairy I think you are bang on the money. The school had 15k which they used in her provision map to fund the TA to run a lunchtime club open to all, the breaking supervisor who is there for everyone etc. Before I questioned where the money went, dd didn't go to the lunchtime club.

I think dd will end up in a private SEN school miles away via a taxi. But that's not I want. She is at the cut off for her ASD diagnosis. She has a mensa level IQ. If they can't cope with her level of needs, they can't cope with ASD at all.

I only care about her mh. But increasingly mine too.

[tipperaryfairy]

Well, the LA definitely would prefer her to be in a local mainstream than paying for taxis and an SEN school, so maybe you need to get the LA on board to help you find and negotiate a different local school.

What are your child's needs? What does she need to help her be in mainstream successfully?

The lunch club funding is depressing.

[IncessantNameChanger]

@tipperaryfairy

Well, the LA definitely would prefer her to be in a local mainstream than paying for taxis and an SEN school, so maybe you need to get the LA on board to help you find and negotiate a different local school.

What are your child's needs? What does she need to help her be in mainstream successfully?

The lunch club funding is depressing.

I tried this. My LA exclusion team said as dd has great attendance levels they are not interested. However I told the LA point blank if she gets expelled she can not go to a state ASD school as they do not sit gcses so it would be indi sen school. I just want mainstream to work. But if she is expelled this is the reality. The LA are possibly scoffing at the idea. I have already viewed a indi sen who said on paper they will take her. However its not the best outcome for dd as there are very few girls in sen schools. However being the only girl is better than not following the NC to a level to sit gcses

[IncessantNameChanger]

She had zero needs according to school pre December. In reality she struggles to transition between home > school. Class > playground. Playground > class. It was minor transition issues that have been ignored and now blow up. She has pda traits and needs choices. Her teacher seems to ignore her or argue with her.

She really needs out of his class ASAP as she has lost all respect for him because he has lost control of the situation. It's become the norm that she bangs and kicks things and from what I hear from other pupils, if she says she is unhappy he ignores her which I turn fuels her meltdowns. She was advocating to move away from a pupil in this incident. The teacher ignored all of her requests to move, so she trashed the classroom.

She has had no OT assessment, no SaLT assessment. Lots of stubborn staff who think they can railroad her with hands on force. Pulling her into class etc for years. Wondering why she is melting down while ignoring her voice before hand.

Ideally she would move class tomorrow. Maybe she needs to be in another local school who take her knowing she has watertight ehcp from tribunal with ringfenced funding solely for a TA. Not a nice little pot of cash for the roof

[tipperaryfairy]

Which year is she in?

Do you believe school that she had no difficulties before Dec?

Trashing the classroom sounds like going from 0 to 60 in a very short space of time. Something must have happened if she had no prior incidents?

If you think she may be PDA, does the indie school know that? I would check with them carefully that they have experience and skills with PDAers. Although I appreciate indie is not your main preference.

As awful as this sounds, if your DD was permanently excluded then s19 provision would kick in (you might have to chase the LA for it), and then you could request that she gets alternative provision via a specialist home tutor with skills and experience with PDA. That could possibly buy some time while you work out what next.

[IncessantNameChanger]

She is juniors. She hasn't got a pda diagnosis, just traits. I'm in a county that refutes pda is real.

[Verbena17]

Hi @IncessantNameChanger how close are you to ASD assessment? We had a private assessment and were told DS is autistic with ‘traits of PDA’. At the time he was almost 11 and it did seem he had PDA. I was so glad they put autism with ‘traits’ of PDA because it became quickly apparent, that he is autistic with extremely high anxiety (GAD) and that his PDA ‘traits’ were simply his autistic self reacting in a certain way to anxiety.

We did parent him with zero demand parenting techniques that worked brilliantly.
It might be worth in the short term at least, explaining about zero demand techniques with your DD’s SENDCo to see if the teacher can implement lowering daily demands of your DD. They might notice a vast difference. I was shocked that her teacher is ignoring her behaviour…the last thing a child with ASD or PDA needs is to be ignored! I really feel for you and your DD being in such an awful situation with staff who don’t understand ASD/PDA at all.

[IncessantNameChanger]

She was diagnosed age 6 so a few years ago. PDA isn't recognised in my county, just as well as no school except semi will touch PDA kids here either. I must look again if the diagnoses says pda traits. It was outsourced by camhs.

My dd is viewed as wilful and stubborn and she can't shake that off. So her ASD is ignored 95% of the time. People see her as a brat unfortunately

[Verbena17]

In your next contact with the school I’d try & make them see (in writing so it’s recorded) that wilful & stubborn is actually just her ‘not having her additional needs met by the school’.

[Verbena17]

Oh so she has already for an ASD diagnosis?

[IncessantNameChanger]

@Verbena17

Oh so she has already for an ASD diagnosis?

Yes

[cansu]

I would concentrate my efforts on looking at specialist schools who might be able to meet her needs. Children like your dd need a specialist more individualised approach. It is largely not possible in a mainstream classroom to meet high level of needs especially with a child who has PDA traits. You would need a 1.1 and not only that you would need a 1.1 who is very experienced and flexible and wants to work with a child with PDA for minimum wage or similar. It is not impossible but is pretty difficult to find such a person even if the school are willing and the authority will or is obliged to fund. Sometimes it is about being pragmatic.

I am sympathetic. My own dd who does not have pda traits but is autistic ended up in mainstream and had to have five different TAs as none would work with her for more than one day a week. It was not sustainable. She spent more time out of the class than in it. She was miserable I was miserable. The school were miserable. I fought for an independent specialist where she has thrived.

[SearchingForSolitude]

If it is necessary to deliver the SEP in F it can be far more than NMW.

[cansu]

Yes of course it can be and I know there are people who have achieved brilliant packages of support. However they are in the minority and even with a better salary finding someone who is willing to do the job would not be easy.

[SearchingForSolitude]

No, not easy (what is in the SEN system at the minute?), but certainly possible.

[cansu]

Yes you are right that it is possible but it is definitely difficult and at times unlikely.

Of course I could have spent months fighting my dd's school and the LEA to find someone who could cope with my dds behaviour. The previous 1.1 had been her ABA tutor but she had wanted a change, because it wasn't working.

However what was really interesting was once my dd was in a specialist school the very challenging behaviour reduced dramatically as her needs were met. The environment, the staff, therapy and curriculum met her needs. She spent ten years in the specialist school. She was happy. I was happy and the school were delighted to have her. The specialist school head actually told me later that when she met my dd on her assessment visit, it was obvious dd was not in the right place for her. I am saying this not to discourage people from getting the right provision but to suggest that sometimes the right answer is to look for a different setting.