Not communicating effectively at school

[PurpleMinionMummy]

If you have a child who struggles to communicate to anyone at school when they are overwhlemed and they just withdraw (which goes unnoticed!), do you have any advice/tips/ideas of how to work around this? Our OT suggested we find a way for ds to let the teacher know if he needs a time out, he won't verbalise it and is a bit too old for the emotions card type keyrings. Looking for other ideas that aren't too 'young' and are subtle so his classmates don't notice. Thank you :)

[Ineedmorepatience]

You are welcome I hope it helps them understand!

Love your user name BTW!

[wevecomeonholidaybymistake]

indeed that says all I want to say to school. Thank you.

[Ineedmorepatience]

I read this at the reintergration meeting we had after Dd3's first school refusal in secondary school!

Dont let my speech fool you!!

The ability to communicate transcends the ability to talk.

Dont assume that the verbal child is competent at communicating.

The stronger the verbal skills the more hidden the communication disorder.

Just because I can talk doesnt mean I understand!!

[youarenotkiddingme]

Very true.

There seems to be a big discrepancy where you get those that don't see so don't believe and those that do see and don't be proactive because the persons autistic and that's how they behave.

I dream for a better understanding.

[youarenotkiddingme]

Good suggestions. Another thing I argued was stating a child is verablly articulate doesn't mean they can articulate.

One of these days someone's going to have the lightbulb moment we all had years ago - that having skills and using skills are not one of the same thing.

[Ineedmorepatience]

I agree polter.

Thanks for arguing that point in tribunal youare.

Dd3 had lots of "cards" when she was at school but she was unable to access any of them!

One of the main things about home ed that worries me is that we are not able to move her forward in terms of asking for help! I just dont know how to do it and rarely do it myself! Everything else is great but that is so crucial that I have to get it right for her!

[youarenotkiddingme]

I argued that a lot yesterday polter I hoped I spoke for us as a collection when I said that it's not a case of saying schools have experience and training in ASD. It's about looking at the individual child and the needs they have and teaching them to communicate and manage those. It's not about managing a child or keeping them calm but giving them the skills they need to advocate for themselves and self regulate for themselves - remembering school is a structured and small community - that they can take with them when they leave and continue to use in adult life.

We hear too often "but they have a time out card" without looking at the realism of teaching them to use it.

[Ineedmorepatience]

Crossed with youare

[Ineedmorepatience]

'he won't be able to do this when he is an adult'!

And will he need to?

Dd3 is learning skils for the adult world all the time, they are strategies to help her get through difficult stuff. She is not going to stop having some of the difficulties she has but she can improve the way she gets around them to achieve what she wants to achieve!

[youarenotkiddingme]

there is nothing wrong with dependence or needing help

^^this.

I find that as an nt person there's a lot less expectation on me to manage the things I struggle with than Ds gets as an autistic person. No one has ever told me (who hates crowds!) that I need to learn to deal with them.
I hate them - I avoid them.

The difference, IMO, is the ability to recognise and respond to that. I can recognise how crowds make me feel and deal with and communicate it - and that's where an autistic person, for example, needs support. It's being given the tools to communicate those feelings rather than be forced to manage something their disability makes it difficult to manage iyswim?

[PurpleMinionMummy]

Thanks youarenotkiddingme. I keep looking at that book on Amazon, perhaps i should take the plunge and buy it. His teacher doesn't recognise when he's struggling atm, I'm not sure ds does either until it too late and he's already withdrawn, what is ELSA work? It sounds like it might be really beneficial.

Fortunately his school have been lovely, his teacher is more than willing to employ techniques to help we just need to find some ds is happy with and will actually use! We only know he's struggling because he gets clingy and stops talking/engaging with us etc. I imagine in class he just stops participating but unless he was spoken too directly and they saw him blanking them/not responding appropriately, i don't think anyone would notice.

[OneInEight]

The one advice I would say is whatever method you try you need to role play with the child so it becomes the norm rather than the unexpected. Otherwise the strategy can cause anxiety by itself. Mind you this is something we have struggled to persuade even specialist schools to perform. It does often work though when we do so at home.

[claw12]

How did tribunal go Youare?

I think the first thing that needs to change is teachers reaction to it. From old school I would get 'he won't be able to do this when he is an adult'!

Ds freezes, when confused, so help him not to be confused! Break things down so he understands instructions. Explain unexpected changes to him etc if he still freezes rather than pressure him to communicate why he is freezing, give him some time to process, a bit of reassurance and he will unfreeze!

[youarenotkiddingme]

Sorry should have said my ds can't use time out or ask for it effectively - his strategy to to throw things usually then he's asked to leave!

[youarenotkiddingme]

All sounds very familiar! I was trying to get the same point across yesterday to tribunal judge.

When you have a child who can't always recognise or recognise early enough their own emotions, doesn't outwardly present as they feel inside and can't ask for help when they need it only accept it after they've blown/or go home highly anxious - what needs to change?

For me I'd say it's learning the skills. So rather than deal with the case in hand spend the time teaching skills that can be transferred later on in life. So ask about ELSA work to work on recognising emotion and how the body feels in response to emotion, there's a great book called "what to do when you worry too much" which can help towards improving the worrying about speaking up and then get the school on board with the idea that children can't conform (eg sit in class for whole lesson without it having a detrimental effect) arent being difficult or lazy but aren't having their needs met and haven't yet for the skills to self regulate/tolerate.

I like the idea of having something - an object - that isn't out of place in school (perhaps a red ruler) that is placed on the desk in front of the student when they need support, time out etc. It's like the red/green card but a ruler doesn't set them aside from their peers which some children with ASD struggle with.

My Ds doesn't give a shit and will use whatever gets him out and wear ear defenders in school and class without a care in the world - but this does leave him open to being recognised as vunerable so I'm watching as well for other suggestions.

[Ineedmorepatience]

This was the main reason the Dd3's last placement failed!

All the strategies offered to her by secondary relied on her asking for help!

She managed to write in a dark time that she felt like she had a wall inside her mouth and the words were stuck behind it!

Very very difficult to get a mainstream school to understand the extent of the difficulty

[claw12]

Ds is the same, he just freezes, can't speak or move. His old school would call it disengaging and thought he needed to communicate. When really all he needs is some time and reassurance.

[PurpleMinionMummy]

Oh no. That is not what you need, it just ruins their confidence to actually ever speak up :(

[wevecomeonholidaybymistake]

We have this exact problem. School keep banging on about how he needs to communicate his needs, not grasping that he rarely understands how he's feeling himself.
In fact he has started to tell them things but it's just dismissed which is very infuriating!

[PurpleMinionMummy]

Yes. Quiet well behaved kids are not really noticed. Especially if they are also academically able. It's just assumed they're ok.