what do you do with things like this ?

[thriftychic]

sorry if this is a bit trivial but would really like to know how other people deal with similar situations .
ds2 (AS) wanted me to write him a note for PE this morning , to make up some reason why he cant do it . we have had this alot . I talked to him about what he dislikes about PE and he says that he basically just doesnt want to do it because theres no point to it . He cant be bothered getting changed , to play a bit of football that he doesnt particualrly enjoy , to get changed back again . He doesnt have any problems with dressing or undressing and isnt too bad at football.
I explained that i didnt want to lie to the teacher and that its not a solution . I said i would ring school let them know he hasnt taken his kit and that there is a problem which needs to be discussed .
He is not happy with me and has left the house saying he might not even go to school and that i dont care about him .
He just can never see that sometimes in life we have to do things we dont want to and his answer is always that he is not doing what he doesnt want / like . its one thing after another . His way or no way .
I am assuming this is all part of having aspergers but what do i do about it ? Am i making things worse trying to make him do things and face up to things he doesnt like ? or would it be worse to keep arranging things to suit him ? If there was something he found really distressing about PE i wouldnt hesitate to insist school find him something else to do but it really does always seem to be that he thinks he shouldnt have to make the slightest effort , that life should always be super easy .
he is 14 btw so maybe a bit older than a lot on here
any advice appreciated

[thriftychic]

unfortunately ds wont engage with camhs at all . they said last time they were happy to see me but they wouldnt see him again until he was willing . i will try to convince him otherwise in the meantime but not very hopeful !

[thriftychic]

i hope i get somewhere , ds2 has just arrived home telling me that he has been sat outside the geography room with a test paper to work on that he has no idea how to do . when he told the teacher hes been absent she wasnt any help he says . apparantly sat there the whole time doing nothing with it
no wonder he cant see the point of school !
just tried phoning this teacher as i am aware that ds2 version may not be quite right ! but , shes gone home . hey ho

[thriftychic]

Hi,
well, had a bad night last night with ds2 . i told him off for something and things spiralled downwards. He was absolutely sobbing about how crap he thinks he is , how he knows he makes all the wrong choices , is horrible to me and cant be bothered at school or with anything he doesnt like and that he just cant seem to make himself behave etc etc etc . tbh it was awful especially as he kept saying that he doesnt deserve a mum as nice as me . i am quite worried about his mental health , some of the things he was saying were truly heartbreaking

This morning , he wouldnt get out of bed for ages , i kept trying to cajole him into going to school to no avail. i gave up by about 10am . then at 12 , he decided to go in.
I have phoned camhs this morning and asked for an appointment . Then i phoned ipsea (phoned a few times before but not got through) They were very good . I have written a letter asking for a meeting with either the head or assistant head and the senco at school . I have asked them to consider what constructive adjustments they can offer ds2 and i am going to ask them at the meeting to arrange the additional needs service to assess ds2 but to get it in writing that they will only intervene in a way that ds2 doesnt know about , at least in the first instance .
I have also written another letter asking for ds2 school records .

I am going to hand them in myself to school tomorrow.

[claw2]

Maybe he just needs a bit of time to process what you have said to him?

With regards to the PE, I think you are right to say you wont write and tell lies.

Do you think it is just a case of he cant be bothered? or do you think he just cant express or doesn't actually know the reasons he finds it difficult?

Does your ds mind wearing shorts and t-shirts? is he very sensory? Does he mind getting changed in front of others?

Does he like to know what to expect?

I remember you saying one of the reasons for his melt down and reason he was excluded, was he has difficulty understanding instructions/explanations, could it be the same for PE?

Do you think he could have difficulties with some coordination or following reciprocal motor skills or subtle fine motor etc?

[thriftychic]

ye, i agree claw always better to approach like that . i recently learnt that from the book polter recommended . just not entirely mastered it yet !
and now , here is why i get so confused , ds2 has just come downstairs dressed in uniform and said hes going in to school . He wouldnt say anymore to me than that and left the house . ive phoned school to let them know just in case he doesnt turn up.

[claw2]

The biggest thing I have found with ds to get him to open up a bit to me, is I firstly have to acknowledge how he is feeling, if I don't he gets very angry and I get 'you don't understand' 'you don't know how it feels' etc.

If I or anyone else try to minimise or dismiss his feelings with natural comments such as 'oh im sure its not that bad' or 'of course you don't want to die' etc, he will clam up and not talk to me.

I always have to start with things such as 'I can see you are upset' or 'I understand that must be frustrating for you' or 'I know you find it difficult' etc, etc.

[thriftychic]

maybe , with ds2 its like a total aversion to talking to anyone about anything other than fishing .
He constantly wants to avoid his issues but then says i dont help him and dont care

[thriftychic]

no , he wont go to camhs .
oneineight , yes could be worth a try . think i am putting it off because i still feel angry from last week with them , their advice with the exclusion situation wasnt the best .

[claw2]

x-posted! What exactly are CAMHS trying to help him with? what is their plan?

Ds refused to go to CAMHS when he felt they didn't 'believe' him or he was going to be in 'trouble' for telling them how he felt about school, when he was refusing to go. He felt they would try and 'trick' him.

Maybe if they put a plan in writing and he could see what they were trying to help with, he might go?

[claw2]

No sorry, im in London. It is confusing Thrifty, you are not alone. Im constantly asking myself how do I help ds.

CAMHS said something to me which made sense Thrifty, 'there will always be something that ds is anxious about' and its true, there will.

The only way I could achieve a totally stress free environment for ds, would be to make no demands of him whatsoever. To let him sit in his room, eating crisps all day, not bathing, in his pj's, playing x-box!

I think I remember reading that your ds wont go to CAMHS?

[OneInEight]

I meant rather they could give you advice on how to make your house safer & what to do if (heaven forbid) the intent become stronger. ds2 is another who spends all his time at CAMHS appointments trying to escape from the room so can understand that approach will not work.

[thriftychic]

i could ring camhs although ds2 wont agree to see anyone . His last appointment with them was in the summer , he legged it and camhs said they wouldnt give him anymore appointments until he himself was willing . He wont even talk to me very much

[OneInEight]

Sorry not near Rochdale. Can you ring CAMHS for advice on the suicidal thoughts - they were quite good for us in not dissimilar circumstances a couple of weeks back.

[thriftychic]

tell myself to get a grip i meant !

[thriftychic]

thankyou for setting out some logic for me i am really not thinking straight today.

[thriftychic]

i think at this moment he genuinely does want to die but saying that , come weekend when hes sat behind a fishing rod i think he will genuinely not want to die

i thought i knew what was what , dont think i do anymore . i just want to cry myself today . bit pathetic , things could be so much worse. will make a brew and tell myself to grip !
and thanks for responding , no one to talk to here . dont suppose anyone lives near Rochdale do they ?

[OneInEight]

The choices are:

1.Do nothing, watch your ds miss more and more school and become more depressed.

1. Work with school to try and improve things - unlikely given their attitude.

1. Change school. Are there any others close by with better SEN departments. Maybe an independent is what he needs now.

1. Home educate. People keep recommending some online schools. I came across an independent the other day (New Elizabethan, near Worcester) that allows flexi education or to allow home educated students to sit their exams there.

I think you need to work out the 'pros' and 'cons' of each choice for your family set up. We are trying option '3' with ds1 after having exhausted option '2' but that is because it seems to be the best option for the whole family. I am not sure it will work - we have had some very tricky weekends since he started - but I feel better for trying something.

[claw2]

Ds is similar Thrifty, very extreme with his emotions, ds does happy or sad and there is little in between. Not fully understanding emotions and feelings is typical ASD. I think children who are more HF have great difficulty with this, certainly with ds he seems more aware of his difficulties/differences, which add to his anxiety.

With issues such as PE, my opinion would probably be somewhere in the middle. Yes, children should be encouraged to try to do things they want to avoid. If I didn't do this, ds wouldn't eat, wouldn't get dressed, wouldn't leave the house etc. But some allowances should be made to make it easier for them to try. Just keep insisting that they do it the same as everyone else, isn't going to help.

I think as a parent you know the difference between real distress and 'wanting to die' and 'wanting to die' being used to avoid things.

[thriftychic]

ds2 just cannot accept doing anything other than what he likes . I started paying for him to go fishing and enter matches every week . before it had been more like every month . It means weekends are all about ds2 now but i thought it would be worth it to make him happier . But , its never good enough . now he says a week is too long to wait and anything else is boring and depressing . think ive actually made it worse !
i donr know whether he is actually depressed or just having extreme emotions when things arent his way which has always seemed the case. camhs said that it is common for asd kids to feel like they want to be dead when things arent going their way and then be laughing again when they are . thats how ds2 is but maybe i am overlooking a real mental health issue and blaming asd .
so about everything today
going to the docs at 2:30 about the chest pain but ds2 is insisting i dont tell them about his school refusal or stress or wanting to be dead

[claw2]

PE is one of our biggest hurdles Thrifty, ds just 'doesn't like it' and never has. I can see lots of reasons why he might not 'like it', however all he can express is 'I don't like it'.

1. Ds struggles with fine motor dressing, finds buttons awkward, socks, zips etc and is always last to change.

1. He hates wearing shorts and t-shirts and having his skin exposed.

1. PE is very unstructured and he absolutely hates not knowing exactly what is going to happen.

1. He struggles to follow some instructions and explanations, particularly with games that have rules, like basketball.

1. Ds is very agile in some respects, however he has difficulties crossing the mid line of his body, weak trunk muscles, weak shoulder, arm, hand muscle, low muscle tone, deep curve in spine etc. (all of which you wouldn't know just by looking at him, but identified by OT)

1. Team sports, like basketball, he struggles with and gets blamed when his team loses or he does it 'wrong'. Add to that his very low self esteem and he takes it very personally.

I think PE just isn't for some kids. Particularly if they don't like school in general and suffer with anxiety and low self esteem.

[thriftychic]

DS2 didnt do the PE yesterday , he hadnt taken his kit anyway but from the limited info he will give away they allowed him to be the referee and said he should take part next lesson .
Ds2 doesnt accept his diagnosis and he came home very upset because he had been taken out of class to work one to one with someone in english . He has got behind because of the recent exclusion . He says it makes him feel like hes thick and retarded and a freak .
This morning he wont go to school at all . It was for this very reason that i asked school not to do anything one to one even though i wish he would comply with it . its not very helpful if he then refuses to go is it !
His current thing is 'fishing' and as is always the case he only wants to do this 24/7 . because he has to wait until weekends he says that means his life is awful and crap and he cant make himself do anything else i.e schoolwork.
i am really worried about him this morning he is lay on his bed saying hes a messed up kid that wants to die and he also has had pains in his chest

[Awomansworth]

Posted message to soon!

What I'm saying is that you know your ds best, so only you can decide what's best for him, but I won't be putting the need to conform ahead of my ds's mental well being again.

[Awomansworth]

My ds (ASD) is 5.7, and if this thread had been posted this time last year I would have said that ds would need to learn to accept that he needs to follow the "school rules", as he calls them. In my thought process this would help ds in the long run.

In this last year ds's anxiety levels regarding certain parts of those rules have reached levels that are not acceptable at all and certainly wern't there before starting school... so no doubt the pressure to conform is definately having an adverse effect on his mental well being.

I will not let this continue, so we had a meeting with school and made this very clear. I still believe we have to help him try different things as his default will always be to refuse to try anything new.

An example for us: ds likes parties, but he doesn't go in the main hall for at least the first 40 minutes, and we usually have to sit outside until he feels able to go in, once he is comfortable he has a great time (he doesn't join in the games much though), but he is having a great time. So I believe it's right for us to take him and help him partake. Obviously we wouldn't force him if he really was unhappy.