What would you do? MMR and autism question

[CeilingThomas]

Hi, I've being doing a lot of research into this but have ended up even more unsure what to do, so thought I'd ask for your thoughts.

My DS is 13months and I've just received the slip to get his MMR jab. I am generally pro vaccinations and my son has had all his to date. But DS's cousins (all 3) on my DH's side are on the autistic spectrum.

My concerns are:
Does the fact that all 3 are on the spectrum suggest a hereditary link?
If there is a hereditary link is it more likely that the MMR could trigger autism in my son if he is already predisposed to it?

I know medical science has concluded there is no link between the MMR and autism but I just don't think I'm convinced, there seems to be so much anecdotal evidence and a large number of compensation claims in the US that suggest vaccination does cause changes in some children.

In my position would you get the jab? Would waiting a year help?

Thanks!

[Maisiemoo13]

Hi everyone , I decided against the mmr for my son as he had horrible reactions toward his previous injections as a baby And i felt he couldnt handle having three live viruses being injected into him at one time This was around the time that concerns were being raised.
I paid for him to have the single vaccines and they were given three months apart at the time, if you are concerned you should trust your instincts , I wouldn't have liked him to not be covered at all , when I spoke to my health visitor to ask for help locating a private clinic I was told she wasn't allowed to give me information on that!!! Could not believe that she would rather see him unprotected against these viruses! I am so glad I went down the single vaccine route, I know they say no link has been found but its hard to ignore the numerous reports of parents who know there children

[saintlyjimjams]

mymate - very similar pattern amongst my circle of friends as well.

Fingers crossed for you bigblue! And yes ds2 and ds3 can make their own minds up when they're 16 as well. :)

[bigbluebus]

Well, having discussed the issue of Measles and MMR jabs with DS(16), he has decided that he will have the vaccination - entirely his decision - I just gave him the facts of the case for and against.
I have phoned the GP and he has an appointment for tomorrow morning.
So please keep your fingers crossed for us that it all goes well and that he doesn't suffer any ill effects - especially as his GCSEs start in 4 weeks!

Interestingly, I was the 1st person to enquire about the MMR vaccination at our surgery in the wake of the current media coverage(other than for babies who are having scheduled jabs). They didn't even know if they had one in stock - but apparently they have got 1 )

[mymatemax]

Ds2 was vaccinated, his disabilities (including autism) were evident before vaccination & are as a result of prematurity & brain damage. Of the families we know with more severe autismthere seems to be an identifiable cause\link. Epilepsy, brain injury & in two cases hospitalisation following reaction to vaccine. In the vaccine families other children also havecsevere asthma & ecxema & one parent has a serious auto immune disorder (vargners grandula mitosis. (sp)). of the families I know that have more than one child with autism there seems to be nothing unusual to point to a cause but the children are hfa. Not sure if the families I know r are true reflection? Or even if it helps the op :)

[saintlyjimjams]

But the efficacy of the vaccination is better with circulating disease (at least in terms of how long it confers immunity). Not sure what you mean mrslaughan. The 25% figure was not confirmed today during the webchat so maybe it's wrong.

OP I would say go and read the David Salisbury thread as one of the Lancet mothers was posting her story on there, but unfortunately her posts seem to have been deleted (no explanation as to why yet).

[mrslaughan]

Your choice as to whether to vaccinate or not but if 75% are unvaccinated, 25% are.... What we are seeing is the effect of a largish proportion of the population unvaccinated, affecting the efficacy of vaccination.
Never under estimate how dangerous measles can be - my brother had weeks in hospital with seizures and a class mate of his died.

Mumps causes infertility, so is hardly innocuous .

[lirael]

Looking back, DS2 had a few signs too. Very self-reliant, hated going out, would scream in the car and the supermarket. But DS1 also had traits - his didn't develop into anything major, whereas DS2's did, which is what leads me to the environmental trigger theory

[BlackeyedSusan]

ds was showing signs of autism before he had the mmr. bloody fixation with wheels.

[lirael]

Thanks Ellen

[zumbaleena]

oh ok! yes...i tend to agree...immunity to rubella an be checked. I got mine checked

[EllenJanesthickerknickers]

labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/measles/tab/test

Quick google shows lots of serology tests for antigens.

[EllenJanesthickerknickers]

Not an expert! But I did ask our GP. Also when pregnant I had various bloods taken to test for rubella immunity etc, so I'm sure immunity to measles could also be checked.

[zumbaleena]

hi ellen...what test are you referring to? what does this test "test"?

[EllenJanesthickerknickers]

There is a test, a blood test, but administering it is more expensive than just giving the booster (and can be more traumatic!) You should be able to get it done privately.

[humblebumble]

I put my DS2 on a delayed schedule. I really struggled with making the decision to vaccinate, ultimately I went with how I felt and on the advice of our son's neurologist.

DS2 has a neurological condition where there is a v.high prevalence of autism, learning disorders, etc. Interestingly his first neurologist (we've since moved) noted as early as 9 months that it was unlikely he would be on the spectrum. DS is 3 now and is still not showing signs of being autistic although he does have some learning issues.

[lirael]

Bump

[lirael]

Both mine had the first MMR jab but neither has had the second. DS2 (10) has autism with severe learning difficulties. He developed a life -threatening staphyloccocal skin infection at 10 days old, for which he had to have huge amounts of steroids and antibiotics. He then developed severe eczema as a baby/toddler, had horrendous toddler diarrohea, developed asthma in his second year (for which he still has a steroid inhaler) and has various food intolerances. DS1(11) has dyspraxia, but no allergy issues and had very little illness as a baby.We have some auto-immune conditions in the extended family and my brother's DS has also been diagnosed with HFA.

My own belief is that there may well be a genetic link, but that DS2's severe issues were environmentally triggered by the assault on his immune system as an infant, which includes vaccinations. He is now much healthier, but his food intolerances, asthma and eczema remain, though all are now under control. I've never questioned my decision not to give them the second jab (well I've questioned it, but not wavered) but now I find myself wondering. DS2's asthmatic profile means that measles might well hit him hard and although DS1 is very rarely ill, the two bouts of serious illness he's had in 11 years have both been chest infections.

Is there a way of testing for antibodies to see if they need the second jab?

[jackjacksmummy]

Ps that is just my own opinion - To be honest, if my auntie was then willing to allow her daughters to give their children the MMR that was enough reason for me to do it with mine, I didn't know about possible genetic links back then either - I had no reason to research all that, I had already had 2 NT children by then.

[jackjacksmummy]

We recently got our autism diagnosis for DS (6) who had his MMR at the suggested age. We also have autism in the family - my cousin, who started showing signs of regression at 18 months. He also had MMR.

However, my auntie did not believe the MMR caused his, I never knew why and I never asked either but will.

At our appointment the other day the paed wanted to know all the ins and outs of my pregnancy, his birth, how he fed, his temperament...etc.

From us telling him that DS was uninterested in feeding for the first 5 days to the point of having to be tube fed he concluded that this could have been the very first sign that DS had autism - where he lacked the sensory skills to carry out the most inbuilt reflex that every newborn baby should have - to suck.
We thought nothing of it at the time, just that he was lazy/tired, we had no reason to suspect autism!

What I'm saying is that whilst some people blame the mmr, sometimes if they recall everything that has happened, most autistic will have shown something that wasn't quite right during their first year - but it's not picked up because those parents are either dealing with the first child and know no different/or possibly have 2 young babies and are genuinely so tired and running on empty that that really good, quiet baby who never demands anything is a welcome relief (that was us!)

I don't believe the MMR caused my sons autism - the signs were there beforehand, I just didn't recognise them and if I could do it all over again I would because his autism is what makes him who he is and I'd rather he be autistic (although his is middle of the spectrum autism so i cant speak for those dealing with really severe autism) than risk serious life threatening illnesses or possible death caused by measles.

[saintlyjimjams]

whoops wrong thread

[saintlyjimjams]

And while we're on vaccinations wearing off. If you read this from that hotbed of well known anti-vaccinaton propaganda - the health protection agency they say (page 8) 'The evidence indicates whilst infants of naturally immune mothers are likely to have protective antibodies (this is to measles) until 6 months of age, a significant number of those born to vaccinated mother may not have protective titres from birth'.

Why aren't they giving another MMR booster? I'm not sure I comprehend.

[zumbaleena]

I am personally strongly convinced that vaccines are definitely one of the environmental triggers. In your case OP, where there are 3 cousins on hubby.s side on the spectrum, that indicates genetic suspectibility to be present in your child and knowingly that vaccines MAY be an environmental trigger that MAY put your kid to risk to autism, if you still decide to go ahead...of course, it is your life and you are free to decide.

[zumbaleena]

It is well understood that "environmental triggers" plus genetic suspectibility combine to cause autism. Most medical papers state that premise right in the opening paragraph. What is under debate is whether vaccines are indeed that environmental trigger. The studies that would establish the connection beyond a shadow of doubt have not been done. For ex- there is no study of differences in autism rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations. Therefore, the proof of the connection between vaccines and autism still requires people to read and think for themselves. For those who are willing to read and capable of thinking for themselves, the Hannah polling story is a good place to start. The other links I have already posted.

[zumbaleena]

www.smartvax.com/images/PDF/autism_primer_from_safeminds_for_general_public.pdf

[zumbaleena]

www.tacanow.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/autism-studies-april-2008.pdf