School called an Emergency AR yesterday and the LA asked us to go back into cohort. Lose year 6

[PinkJellyCat2023]

I'm an old poster from years ago. Very seasoned SEN parent. I have almost done as many appeals as there are months in the year. Yes I'm aware if anyone from school was to read this we are very identifiable so let's hope they don't.

My daughter is out of cohort. She is in year 4 as a summer born. Chronologically she should be in year 5..we had an emergency AR for her yesterday called by the school. LA was present. They got us to agree to do it as a transition review. I'm not 100% as it was extremely stressful but they said if we do decide to transition her and ask for a SEN school she will miss year 6 and go straight to secondary from year 5. I think because she is in crisis in mainstream and it would be a quicker way into SEN. 

The picture of my daughter is a child that was fine in November 23 but now in utter crisis. OT have been in but didnt talk to me. I asked to talk to camhs but school said it had to be with them present, we couldn't make that meeting so they talked to camhs without us who just signposted to the NAS. At school my dd is showing signs of psychosis. At home she is fine. The same child she always was with behaviours actually improving.

On reflection I don't know why we agreed to this. Missing a year isn't in her favour. Neither naming a school in Feb as we haven't looked at any yet except one indi SEN. I think we would need to lodge a preference by October?

[BingoLob]

I don’t know whether you’ve seen it but there was an article on this very issue on Special Needs Jungle reasonably recently. I can’t remember the details but I think they were campaigning for the law to be changed as SN kids could be done out of a year and non-SN kids now couldn’t. I can’t now find the article though.

I’ve no other advice, but if mental health is an issue I would do whatever it takes to get her to a more suitable setting ASAP.

[Headfirstintothewild]

DC can be educated outside their chronological year group in SS. It can be included in F - there is case law on this. Is being educated outside DD’s chronological year group in F? It should be.

It doesn’t matter you agreed to it at the meeting, email now setting out your position. Then if the LA amends to remove being educated below her chronological year group or it was never in F then you can make you4 representations when you get the AN and ultimately appeal when the amended EHCP is finalised.

[PinkJellyCat2023]

Thanks. I didn't see this on special needs jungle I will have a dig too. Being out of cohort wasn't in F I don't think? I need to check.

I think dd needs to be in SEN for her mh but I need time to find the right school. My boys go to great indi srns schools. I spent two years looking for my year 7 boys secondary and at 25 schools. Now the LA want me to pull a school out my arse with no warning.

[BingoLob]

Found it!

Not sure it helps you much though.

[PinkJellyCat2023]

@Headfirstintothewild do you know the case law in question?

[Headfirstintothewild]

It is AB v North Somerset [2010] UKUT 8. You would need evidence there was a special educational need that requires the SEP of being educated out of her chronological year group, which I don’t think you would have a problem getting even if it was via an independent report.

[PinkJellyCat2023]

@Headfirstintothewild

It is AB v North Somerset [2010] UKUT 8. You would need evidence there was a special educational need that requires the SEP of being educated out of her chronological year group, which I don’t think you would have a problem getting even if it was via an independent report.

Initially it was agreed due to a significant speech delay. School aren't making it easy as it depends on what day you ask whether she is meeting targets or behind or years behind. I have reports from this week she is at expected levels, in the meeting she was verbally behind and in a EP report from last summer she's was 1.5-2 years behind.

It's clear that all three can't be correct. She is 9.5 years old, 120cm tall and weighs three stone and the senco keeps insisting it's puberty. She is biologically to underweight to start her periods, no public hair, no boobs. They just say stuff with no evidence. I'm half minded to see a private endocrinologist to see if it's just hormones. Maybe my sons ASD is just pmt too?

When I appeal will be my tenth which surely must be UK record. You'd hope so anyway.

[Headfirstintothewild]

It wouldn’t just be about academic ability. Social and emotional development could also lead to needing to be educated out of chronological year group. As could physical needs.

Is DD under a paediatrician? 120cm at 9.5yrs puts DD just above the 0.4th line. If she falls any lower that puts her under the line stating DC should be under specialist review. 19.1kg (hopefully my conversion is right) puts her right on the pre-puberty line, maybe even just below it. Together they put DD below the 1st centile but above the 0.4th. So, I would want a referral if DD isn’t already under someone.

When I appeal will be my tenth which surely must be UK record.

Unfortunately, this isn’t rare in England now, especially for families with multiple DC with EHCPs. It is going to become more common, sadly.

[PinkJellyCat2023]

Yes her growth is another concern and another battle with her gp who measured her a lot taller than I can work out how. I'm just dealing with what ever is on fire the most right now. That's another reality of battling the SEN system. There very little spare capacity to exist on. Her brother has severe needs and if I tell his disability socail worker all I can do right now is stop myself breaking down mentally, keeping dd in education and making sure her siblings don't die, I get told I'm amazing. Doing amazingly. Amazing mother. It sets a very bar that unfortunately normalises a very low bar and some weeks, most weeks it's everyone fed, no one dead. Right now I'm not enjoying parenting ever on any level. If I tell the disability socail worker that I'm close to running away I'm still doing amazingly. If I left and never saw the kids again I'd possibly still be an amazing mum.its hollow BS. From the script of bs. It fact some times I think it's all bs and there'd be notable different if I did nothing compared to appealing and making myself sick. Most days recently in fact I don't know why I do anything.

Sorry that's a rant

[BingoLob]

I hear you. You are so allowed to rant. Your social worker reminds me of the counsellor I went to who kept telling how much of an amazing mum I was. She had never seen me parent and didn’t have a bloody clue whether I was or not. It annoyed me so much. I ran for the hills and never went back!

For what it’s worth despite having so much on your plate you are trying to make sure your daughter gets the number of years of schooling she should get so regardless of whether or not you are an amazing mum you are certainly doing your level best for your kids in what sounds like a bit of a shit show.

I hope appropriate support can be ramped up to a level that makes things bearable.

[Eaterysarnie]

My dd is y3 csa.
I dont agree with the article re sen and csa.
As logically when i did csa there was (and really is) no guarantee that it will be adhered to when moving schools to secondary or any other school. But they had to prove it was in dc best interests.
Yes since then stronger guidance but still no guarantees

There should be no standard policy to move kids up though.
Its likely about cost savings

As i understand sen schools teach more in ability so making less difference about year groups.

I wouldnt agree to skip a year.

[Headfirstintothewild]

If you appeal the EHCP, you can also appeal social care provision. Same when you next appeal other DC’s EHCPs.

@Eaterysarnie the article isn’t saying educating outside of chronological year group is guaranteed for those without EHCPs. It is saying that there doesn’t have to be an exceptional reason, such as a medical need or SEN reason. Whereas, for those with EHCPs, for it to be included in the EHCP as SEP, as it should be, there has to be a special educational need requiring such provision. Even where it is included in F, because EHCPs are reviewed each year, there is the potential for this to be removed during a key stage. And the difference is because different areas of law cover the different cohorts.

BTW, CSA stands for compulsory school age. Anyone in year 3, whether educated in their chronological year or in the year below their chronological year group, is CSA.

[PinkJellyCat2023]

Yes I'm told that kids I sen are taught out of cohort and I know that's true but.... both of my boys, one severe and one hoping to go to uni both in SEN schools are in set year groups not ability groups in secondary SEN. I think my LA want to save a years fees and her school want rid of her a year sooner. That will blow up because if I do move to a SEN school it won't be the cheapest nearest state setting. If I'm going to appeal you bet your life I'm arguing the toss it will be for the best fit. If I'm appealing, it's nothing to add a line to stay in current cohort. I don't want indi SEN. I just want a easy life in mainstream state and normality, but neither will I send my dd to the strongly hinted local SEN academy that formly was a boys school for behaviour issues. What super amazing mum would do that? If I had a time machine I'd go back and get sterilised at 18. If I told the SW that she would praise me too.

I have to meet the disability SW this week..instead of being honest that I'm at breaking point I will politely lie to her to get her useless input over with faster.

So much tax payer money spent on the SW, OT and camhs and its delivered nothing. Absolutely nothing has come from any of it. This is why there's no money left in SEN.

[Lilysilrose]

Just to offer another perspective....

My child has just moved to an SEN school and the classes are almost all mixed year groups with needs, friendship and personality more the key factor than exact age. So personally I wouldn't worry about it.

There is an absolute scramble for SEN places in year 7 so if this means she gets one and otherwise is less likely too then it would be an easy decision for me.