Proposed statement - disagree with placement?

[DallasCounty23]

Hi everyone,

Just after some advice really. My son has just yesterday received his proposed statement (NI). The educational psychologist has recommended mainstream with a 1:1 (currently in Primary one in mainstream). Here's the kicker.. Before Christmas he was in 9:30-11:55 but this didn't work and we but breaking point.. He was taken by the hands by two assistants and took into the classroom while he was incredibly upset, he then hit his teacher.. When I collected him she said "it's not nice being hit by a child you know!".. Bringing me to now.. He's on a ridiculously reduced time table of one hour per day (he can't cope and they don't have the resources so this is the conclusion.. I also don't want him suffering for a five hour day), doesn't enter the classroom at all, he cannot cope with the noise and too many people. He spends his time in the area outside the classroom or in a quiet space, doesn't do much work and is miles behind his peers (he should also be P2 age but was deferred, oldest in his year now). He cries every morning going, gets butterflies in his belly at nights. He's isolated from the class as he won't enter. I have asked could they accommodate a couple of other children coming to his quieter space and working with him to help aid social skills and relationships - they've only done this once. I've tried tirelessly to get them to do something but it doesn't amount to anything.. They didn't even bother sending their educational advice in for his statement!

He has technically had a 1:1 the whole time from starting school as the classroom assistant always has to be with him. So I don't see this making a difference.. but the educational psychologist was eager to try a 1:1 before a unit. He has not attended school for almost three weeks now due to hitting a complete breaking point with his mental health.

I should note the previous two years of nursery were not much better.

Sorry for the long winded post but what grounds do I have here? Can I name a unit within a mainstream in part 4 if his proposed statement? I know it will be a fight and I'm willing to do that but just need to know where I stand. In his proposed statement it mentions a few times "currently not able to cope in a mainstream" "significant difficulty entering the classroom".. so reading it you would assume how could they come to this conclusion??

Thanks for any help in advance!

[Headfirstintothewild]

Once the statement has been finalised, you can will be able to appeal if necessary. You can request the additionally resourced provision. For many units, the mainstream school is named in Part 4 and the ARP detailed in 3. Although sometimes ARP can be named themselves in 4. If DS can’t attend school, is the education authority making alternative provision? If you don't already know about them, have a look at SENAC's website.

[Thisismynewusernamedoyoulikeit]

I'm not saying it's what you should do, but it could be also worth considering a different mainstream school? Some are better than other with SEND, or particular types of SEND.

[DallasCounty23]

@Thisismynewusernamedoyoulikeit

I'm not saying it's what you should do, but it could be also worth considering a different mainstream school? Some are better than other with SEND, or particular types of SEND.

Ds has a terrible time for the two years at his nursery also, couldn't cope with the class size and noise so this is what puts me off another full time mainstream. Although you're completely correct, some mainstreams are amazing in SEN! Our one unfortunately isn't one of those 😢

[DallasCounty23]

@Headfirstintothewild

Once the statement has been finalised, you can will be able to appeal if necessary. You can request the additionally resourced provision. For many units, the mainstream school is named in Part 4 and the ARP detailed in 3. Although sometimes ARP can be named themselves in 4. If DS can’t attend school, is the education authority making alternative provision? If you don't already know about them, have a look at SENAC's website.

Thanks so much for the information! I've sent DS statement to Senac today, just waiting on them coming back to me to see what's best in their opinion. EA currently aren't involved with doing anything to provide alternative education.

[Headfirstintothewild]

If DS can’t attend school request alternative provision.

[DallasCounty23]

@Headfirstintothewild

If DS can’t attend school request alternative provision.

What would they do about this? What kind of provision can be offered in this instance?

[Headfirstintothewild]

It depends on DS’s needs, what is suitable and what is available locally. It could be home tuition (although the word tuition can be used lightly, it doesn’t have to be formal tuition), hospital school, a unit the EA use for this purpose, an alternative provision such as a care farm.

[DallasCounty23]

@Headfirstintothewild

It depends on DS’s needs, what is suitable and what is available locally. It could be home tuition (although the word tuition can be used lightly, it doesn’t have to be formal tuition), hospital school, a unit the EA use for this purpose, an alternative provision such as a care farm.

This is all really good to know, thank you! It's amazing what we let the EA away with. I'd never heard of a care farm and just had a quick Google.. Wow! What a game changer this would be for ds, he loves animals and they have a big therapeutic effect on him - although I'm sure the chances of one of these are slim!

[Headfirstintothewild]

If DS likes animals have you looked at animal assisted therapy?

Therapies can be included in the statement if they are required.

[DallasCounty23]

I've had a look into animal therapy a bit but still very much need to do some more research!

What kind of therapies could be included? After ds educational psychology assessment she had mentioned to be he would benefit from Lego therapy as he loves Lego, and that this can be carried out by the educational psychologists. However, there is nothing like this in the statement.

[Headfirstintothewild]

Lego therapy can be included. So could things like SALT, OT, physio, MH therapies if they are required. You would need evidence they are required and may have to appeal, but they can all be included.

Oh dear. No idea why that posted 3 times.

[Headfirstintothewild]

.

[Headfirstintothewild]

.

[DallasCounty23]

Great, thank you!
In regards to the unit provision do you know if I can go ahead and name this in part 4 (I know it will be declined and I'll have to appeal), or if because it says mainstream placement I can't do this?

Also, upon meeting with our current senco he seemed to think that DS would have more tailored support in school with a 1:1 rather than a unit that may not make a difference? Our problem is not a 1:1 making a difference, it's the fact he cannot cope in the classroom, hasn't entered it or been with peers from December. He just cannot cope with the environment. Are units good provisions?

Sorry I know you might not have all these answers but any help is greatly appreciated 😊

[DallasCounty23]

I have looked down the special school route but have assumed that a diagnosis of severe learning disabilities/moderate are required? DS could not complete a cognitive testing as he didn't have the attention span. He also isn't diagnosed but highly suspected autism and appointment due in the coming weeks after four years on the waiting list. (Older DS has autism and it runs in the family). He is also extremely demand avoidant and ADHD is suspected too.

[Headfirstintothewild]

Special schools aren’t just for those with moderate or severe learning disabilities. Not all SS require a diagnosis. Although some autism specialist schools do require a formal diagnosis.

You can state your preferred placement even if the EP has suggested mainstream. For some units the unit is named in part 4. For other units the mainstream school is named in part 4 with the unit provision detailed in part 3. It depends on the unit.

If the statement is written correctly tailored support can be given in MS, ARP or SS.  

ARPs work for some, but not for others. They also vary greatly so it is worth visiting and speaking to the specific unit you are thinking of.

[mummyof2boys30]

NI based here. Contact nicholas quinn solicitors for advice. They are very helpful. Also make sure 1to1 hours are quantified before agreening to anything. I know thats least of your worries currently

[Headfirstintothewild]

Just to point out, the EA don’t actually need consent to finalise.

[DallasCounty23]

Hi, sorry I haven't been back in a while! Usually I get a email notification very delayed 🙈

Currently we are still within the 15 days with the proposed statement to name a school. I have contacted Nicholas Quinn (used them before with Statutory assessment appeal). So at the moment everyone is baffled as to why mainstream has been decided whilst the reports from educational psychology and school detail of severe struggles in mainstream - the educational psychology report also states several times not coping in mainstream. So I've been to few units and I'll be naming one regardless then I assume the fight will begin...

My ds has been off school for four weeks now, school are classing him as being educated off site and providing the work. They are terrible with sen but have been ok with this which I assume because it's much easier for them. Even in their advice they provided the ea with they have written throughout "chooses not to come into the classroom", "doesn't worry about offending people". The wording is shocking and so incredibly cold given that ds physically feels he can't enter the classroom, and doesn't like offending people.. this will happen during meltdown, "I hate you" etc.

Upon viewing units I did have a moment when I thought... Is this going to really change things? Considering they still do so many things with the mainstream classes, playground, lunch etc.. I know there's the option of the kids that can't handle this don't have to but it kind of frightened me wondering "where does my little boy fit in education" and that's hard, but I have to try something.

I have had moments were I thought would a solid 1:1 make a difference but deep down I know it wouldn't.. it's the environment and he would still be isolated with a 1:1. I had a meeting with school and they said "a 1:1 is more tailored for him because it's just for him, if he needed to be in a room alone with a 1:1 that can happen".. I don't want him isolated. I know a TA quite well within school and she told me in confidence that my ds teacher was heard saying to the CA of the class "it's much easier without name here". And that broke me. It's such a minefield that I'm still trying to figure out but hoping we get a good outcome.

So sorry for the essay!

[DallasCounty23]

@Headfirstintothewild

Special schools aren’t just for those with moderate or severe learning disabilities. Not all SS require a diagnosis. Although some autism specialist schools do require a formal diagnosis.

You can state your preferred placement even if the EP has suggested mainstream. For some units the unit is named in part 4. For other units the mainstream school is named in part 4 with the unit provision detailed in part 3. It depends on the unit.

If the statement is written correctly tailored support can be given in MS, ARP or SS.  

ARPs work for some, but not for others. They also vary greatly so it is worth visiting and speaking to the specific unit you are thinking of.

I assume Arp stands for a unit? Can I ask do you know why they wouldn't work for some? As this is my biggest worry about one after viewing.. They still do a lot with mainstream. Although there was only 8 in the actual class. I'm just not sure where we fit in education. It's all I think about, just so hard!

[Headfirstintothewild]

Apologies, ARP stands for additionally resourced provision. They don’t work for all because of the reasons you mention. Most still expect time, to a greater or lesser extent, to be spent on mainstream classrooms and the unit doesn’t change the sensory environment of mainstream, which is overwhelming for some.

[DallasCounty23]

Thank you for your reply. This is why I constantly wonder where my ds fits in education.. We visited a unit on Friday and they very much include the kids in mainstream as much as possible if the child can cope. I don't think we'd stand a chance at special school even though da is miles behind work wise. I'm just so lost in what to do. My older ds has a full-time 1:1 and has done well with this albeit still struggles at times with mainstream noise, pressure etc. My younger ds is miles away from even this though.