Autism - private or state

[nightlighton]

My child is due to start school in September, currently they're likely going to our local state primary.
I realise it's a long way off but, from what I gather, it's when children start mainstream secondary school when challenges tend to arise. I realise it's not 'one size fits all', I am new to all of this and I currently do not know what my childs needs are.

I do not have a crystal ball but, I imagine my child would not have high enough needs for a specialist provision but they will need adjustments.

Financially we could probably just about afford private, it would be a squeeze.

I am concerned that if their needs increase as they get older that private school will not be able to continue to meet them - if not then we will be left in a difficult situation.

Currently I'm thinking go to state, see how things go, then if needed the private school is there. To be clear, the only benefit I currently see with private school is small class numbers and a small school in terms of overall numbers of students when thinking of secondary, all if which I know would be a benefit.

If anyone has any thoughts or experiences or other considerations they're able to share I would really appreciate it, thanks

(Reposting to educational>SEN as I think this is probably the right topic group)

[FleurdeLiane]

State, choose carefully. Look for a warm, welcoming and inclusive culture and a switched-on SENDCO you trust; ask about how are other autistic pupils supported and gauge how tailored and sensitive the response is to individual needs? Also have look into secondary options (eg. where does the primary cohort typically go to?); try and glean how well those schools handle SEND needs too (reputation in local SEND parents groups, Ofsted reports etc)?

[Phineyj]

If you think your child will need an EHCP at secondary, start the process no later than year 4.

I started in year 5 and even if we win our second tribunal, the EHCP (if we win) will only just be done in time for her to start year 7.

We have switched her from private primary to secondary state because the SEN understanding is better.

Bear in mind private schools may have in their terms and conditions that they can ask you to take your child out if they can't manage their SEN or if you don't disclose SEN.

It all very much depends on the actual schools you have access to though. Even within the same category, they vary a lot.

[MyLemonBee]

If you can afford private, I'd start there. The smaller class sizes are less likely to be overwhelming. Obviously you'd need to speak with the schools first. Lots of privates, especially more academic ones, are not very used to SEN.

Also in private the teachers have more time as smaller classes, better support, so are more likely to be better at communication, feeding back on how your child is doing, any extra support they need, making adjustments to lessons for special interests etc.

If you need an EHCP you can still get one in a private school.

[Phineyj]

You can but you may find (we did) that the LA are prejudiced against the private sector and also that non statutory support isn't available.

Worth discussing the experience they have with SEN, definitely.

Something I would have liked at our school is to meet with other SEN parents. This has only very occasionally happened.

Although our school was great, they had no experience at all with secondary transition for a SEN child.

[Phineyj]

*the experience the private school have with SEN.

[HelloFromMumOfOne]

I found an advantage of private school is you can pay extra for the interventions and they can be organised quickly (maybe not all private schools). The disadvantage is you have to pay for the extras. I hadn't really thought before going from state primary to private secondary that with extra needs there can be a lot of extra costs.

I would suggest considering both state an private and looking for the best school. I found the sencos in the private school, helpful and much happier to speak to prospective parents than at the state schools.

[LimeSqueezer]

Much depends on the specific schools, not just private vs state. What part of the country are you in? Do you have a wide range of schools to choose from?

And of course, wait and see how it goes, how academic they are (likely to score highly at 11+ or private entrance exams), and how your current school manages. Some hyper selective schools can be pretty good with autism, depending on specific needs. Our mixed ability private primary is very good with SEN.

[HausMaus123]

My child’s ASD traits become more apparent and more challenging as they progressed through state primary school. We very nearly moved into private but held out in state and we’re glad we did - we got a great EHCP and feel very supported now by the LA. I know that we’re lucky and that’s not always the case. I suppose what I’m saying is a child will change and have varying needs and challenges as they develop so be where you can get the most support for them and expect changes in their needs as you go.

[nightlighton]

Thanks all, very useful comments

[nightlighton]

@HausMaus123 is your child still in primary? This is my main concern, going to secondary

[HausMaus123]

@nightlighton yes, still in primary

[Worriedmotheroftwo]

My son is in Reception at a private prep school. He's doing well there, I think because it's a tiny class. I do have to pay for all his extra support though.

[Luffers78]

My son ASD no EHC plan except SEN register educated in state primary. Hindsight classes too big. Transferred to state secondary where everything fell apart. Year out of school! Applied for EGC plan took La to tribunal and won now at specialist independent boarding weekly.

[nightlighton]

@Worriedmotheroftwo would you mind sharing an indication of extra fees? What type of things do they charge for? (Only if you're comfortable sharing).

The school we are looking at isn't a specialist independent, just a mainstream(?) independent school. Classes average 14. They're going to call to discuss SEN, I don't imagine they have a vast number of SEN children but they do have some. There are common entrance exams for entering year 8 that begin in year 6.

[Phineyj]

We pay £200 or so a term (additional to fees) for a 1 to 1 with the SENCO each week. She mostly works with DD on emotional regulation but they also do bits of academic work.

[Worriedmotheroftwo]

@nightlighton

@Worriedmotheroftwo would you mind sharing an indication of extra fees? What type of things do they charge for? (Only if you're comfortable sharing).

The school we are looking at isn't a specialist independent, just a mainstream(?) independent school. Classes average 14. They're going to call to discuss SEN, I don't imagine they have a vast number of SEN children but they do have some. There are common entrance exams for entering year 8 that begin in year 6.

Of course! My son is in a mainstream independent too, with same sort of class size. The small class and calm environment seems to really be helping, although they don't have much experince with SEN.

We pay £48 per week for a SALT session (speech and language therapy). We are also looking into costs for private OT (occupational therapist) which I think is going to be more expensive than the SALT. Horrendously expensive of course, but we recently were awarded DLA money which helps a lot.

I suspect my son will need more support as time goes on. We're applying for an EHCP and will see how that goes.

[nightlighton]

Thanks both for sharing.
How does an EHCP work within a private setting? Is it just used as a document setting out what is needed or will the local authority give you funds to help pay extras at the private school equal to what a state school would get?

[Headfirstintothewild]

If an independent school is named in an EHCP the LA must fund the fees and any provision detailed, specified and quantified in F. In order to name a wholly independent school in I, you will need an offer of a place and to prove the LA’s proposed school(s) can’t meet DC’s needs &/or it isn’t unreasonable public expenditure. You may have to appeal.

Other than that, some LAs will sometimes come to an agreement whereby parents pay the fees and they will fund the special educational provision in F. However, this is not guaranteed and many LAs are far more likely to say by making the choice to educate in an independent school you are making suitable alternative arrangements thereby relieving them of their duty.

[Swiftmob]

@Phineyj sorry to crash this - we have a dd in private primary in Scotland (she started in state and was such a disaster we removed her after 4 months).

We’re considering a move to England and ideally she’d go to a state secondary that had ASD and DCD support - she will be 10 this coming academic year (and going into Eng year 4 equiv)

DD has ASD and DCD diagnoses (nhs Scot)

am I right that we’d need to:

1. put her in state primary
   
2. try and get school to do ECHP (sounds like they have to agree they can’t meet her needs and she’s behind which could take a long time?)
   
3. apply for a secondary we think meets her needs
   
4. appeal and go to tribunal?
   
   and this would all take 2- 3 years?

[Headfirstintothewild]

@Swiftmob you don’t need the school to agree DD needs an EHCPs or for them to say they can’t meet DD’s needs and DD doesn’t have to be academically behind to get an EHCP.

The EHCP process takes 20 weeks unless you have to appeal. This is a statutory timescale that you can enforce if the LA breaches it. However, many have to appeal, sometimes more than once, and appeals are taking a long time. If you have to appeal refusal to assess, refusal to issue and content/placement it could be more than 2 years. 

When you move you can make an in year school application to your LA via the normal route. Alongside this, you can request an EHCNA (IPSEA has a model letter you can use) and appeal if necessary. If you don’t have a finalised EHCP by the normal secondary admissions deadline in October of Y6 you should make an application via the normal admissions procedure just in case.

[Swiftmob]

Thanks @Headfirstintothewild that helps - it’s daunting. I’ve an older autistic girl too who thankfully is doing ok and let’s say, I don’t relish the bad gatekeeping and discussions with schools about girls with autism.

we could get lucky with an area but as we’re likely to end up in SE commuter belt, seems doubtful!

[Phineyj]

@Swiftmob that's about right re timings sadly. Could you clarify though? If she turns 10 next academic year, won't she be going into year 5? I have an EHCP support thread on here by the way.

[Phineyj]

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

[Swiftmob]

That’s the other problem, we’d popped her back a year to restart the first year of primary again and because socially she’s young for her age, is that more common in Scotland than England?

[Swiftmob]

Thanks for the help - we’re evaluating how hard it’s going to be at this stage!