I feel like a failure - 8 week DS sleeping gets worse

[Igglybuff]

Hi I've posted before about my DS (now 8 weeks) who gets overtired easily. In the days I've been battling to make sure he doesn't get overtired and gets all of his naps. We've also introduced a bedtime routine to try and relax him.

However instead of getting an improvement, my DS's night sleeping has gone out the window the last week or so. Day 2 of his bed routine saw him stay awake from 7pm til 5am with the odd 30 min sleep here and there (achieved through swaddling/White noise/rocking etc. You name it, we tried it - even taking him out in the sling at 3am!!!!). This obviously wore him out so DS has been sleeping even more in the day. Since then the nights have been similar - although he has a proper awake period at about 1am where attempts to settle result in him screaming in frustration so we give up and play with him til he gets tired.

I'm getting increasingly depressed as nothing works in getting DS into a night time pattern - he was much better before 5/6 weeks. I thought he would get
more alert in the day but being overtired means he just wants sleep. A nighttime routine doesn't work (I've tried baby massage too which relaxed him but no sleep improvement).

I know this will pass but part of me thinks it won't. I think I'm boring my dh with my tears as I feel physically unable to manage DS at night as the emotional strain of trying to keep DS chilled in the day is too much.

Has anyone got any coping strategies? I genuinely think my baby is the worst I know during the nights - comparing him to others I know, he just doesn't sleep properly at night. Also in the day he just sleeps so much and can only stay awake an hour at a time - yet I was at a mum and baby gathering and their babies were all awake whilst mine just slept the whole time.

This is a long ramble so sorry. But I feel utterly useless and don't know what I'm doing wrong. DS isn't ill, he's putting on weight etc and seems happy in the day (when he is awake that is)! Why have I made him such a bad night baby?

[Igglybuff]

Hi rosie we've got infacol and gripe water which I use sometimes but at night I'm tired and forget. I'm trying to wind part way through a feed as he takes most air in at the start. I'm trying to concentrate on how he latches but can't work out how he gets so much air in!!
Jabs seemed to have had little impact so far... He's grizzly but that's because he's overtired. No temperature or anything. Fingers crossed he'll be alright tonight he was ok last night - just the cold and a bit of wind kept him up from 4/5am so I've put him in a warmer sleepsuit and will try and wind him better (although winding him wakes him up!)

[rosiefean]

There is something you can give your LO to help with burping. I don't know what it's called, but your HV/GP will know. It helps the bubbles to collect together so they do one big burp rather than lots of small ones. When I'm burping DS I can hear a creaking noise and then he burps. Quite amusing!

The first jab made my DS a little more sleepy and a little less bothered about food... didn't last tho! Make sure you have calpol to hand...

[Igglybuff]

I've started employing a ten min rule with burping i.e. Have to do it for at least 10 - I swear DS holds them back! He wakes up looking terrified if he has wind...

Today DS has his jabs but he's refusing to sleep!! Which is not good as I (foolishly) asked my inlaws to take me to the docs and they'll want to play with him if he's awake. I tried to tell them not to overdo it but they get grumpy - DS is not a toy! fingers crossed that they (jabs) don't cause too much bother but I'm not hopeful....!

[rosiefean]

GF is just too strict for my liking. I'm quite a hippy by heart, and only turned to GF 'cos I knew nothing about her and someone had given us the book with all their other baby stuff. In my sleep deprived state I saw "get your baby into a routine" and thought it would be good. After a few days DS had dark bags under his eyes and was miserable, so I stopped doing the daytime stuff but stuck to the nighttime routine until I was confident enough to drop that as well (the wake up at 10pm thing...)

As I say, she does have some good ideas (which other more "baby friendly" books also include) but the strict routine thing probably won't work for most babies, or should that be most mums?

Naps during the day definitely help. DS has a cold at the mo so I'm desperately encouraging him to snooze during the day in the hope that will a) stop him being over tired and b) sleep better at night.

Wind is a bugger. We wind DS for at least 5 mins before putting him down for bedtime, if we don't he just wakes up within 10 minutes crying. An NCT friend says that she has to burp her baby when he's awake, otherwise it doesn't work! DS wakes up when he burps but usually settles again (although at the mo his cold has turned him into a crying, miserable baby, day and night! I'm just hoping it'll pass quickly)

[Igglybuff]

Rosiefean why do you not recommend GF? although we attempted it and found it didn't help. May have been because I couldn't bring myself to timetable everything! But in desperation I have thought about it.

I've noticed that helping DS to sleep in the day, especially after one of excitement, has helped a bit the last two nights. However, I think it's wind that wakes him up - he's going longer between feeds now but it means he gets super hungry so guzzleslike a demon and swallows so much air. Burping him at night usually wakes him or I don't get it all out as tired. Nightmare!

[rosiefean]

I'm not sure we had the exactly same problem, but my DS was awake until the wee early hours and then slept in until about 1pm during the early weeks - fine when DP was on paternity leave, but not so fine for when he went back to work. I went a little crazy* and did the Gina Ford thing for a bit (spit, spit). It got him set straight, but I wouldn't recommend it. What I would recommend, and what we still do, is:

• wake him at the same time each day. We do 7am 'cos it works for DP getting up and going to work.
• keep on with your bedtime routine, it will work.
• make daytime bright and noisy, make nighttime quiet and dark.

It may not work straight away, but his internal clock will kick in and he'll get into a more regular pattern. My DS isn't the best napper so gets upset at around 5pm, and we have been known to put him in the bathroom early 'cos it's the only thing that calms him down. I think it's the "thank goodness it's nearly bedtime" reflex!

* My excuse is I was traumatised from our BF experience, which only lasted 8 days thanks to the medics failing to support/give me the right advice. But that's another story...

[Igglybuff]

Seeker - I'm thinking of having "it will pass" tattooed on my hand to look at at 3am!!! I'm going to try and relax more... Things got to a head when me and DH were so tired after a BAD night (7pm - 5am overtired baby!!) and DH suggested formula to knock DS out. Luckily he talked himself out of it pretty quickly - but sleep deprivation will do that to you!
It's just amazing how much worse it has got in the last couple of weeks - I thought I was tired before but now.. Wow

[IsItMeOr]

seeker you have expressed my suspicion about sleep trainers. I was convinced that DS was ready to change at 12-13 weeks simply because his digestion settled (as it does for many babies I believe). But the night nanny we had really wasn't there as a sleep trainer, just an extra pair of hands when DH and I were falling over/breaking down exhausted, because we hoped it would only last until around 3 months. The night nanny was part of our survival plan until it passed!

[seeker]

Please don't expect ANYTHING of a baby so little - things change all the time. You really have to accept the fact that you will be knackered and sleep deprived for the first few months - but it will change, things will get better - and it is a really tiny chunk of your life. Sleep whenever the baby sleeps and remember that looking after this baby is your job at the moment - don't try to do anything else at all. A meal that isn't from the microwave is a bonus - a shower not accompanied by screaming (it takes 3 minutes to have a shower - it really won't hurt to leave the baby in his car seat on the bathroom floor for 3 minutes) is a bonus - and this stage will, I promise you, pass. Whatever you do, it will pass. You can do lots of stuff - it will pass. You can do nothing and go with the flow - it will pass. So I suggest you relax, and wait. Things will be different in a week - different again in a fortnight. Mu theory is that the sleep trainers rely on this - and charge tons of money and take credit for stuff that would have happened anyway - they are very good at timing!

[Igglybuff]

Mmm Lionstar that's just it - never know what sort of night we'll get which makes it so hard! DS has just had a massive feed, presented us with a massive poo and we're trying to wind. So hopefully he'll go down for at least an hour....!!!
IsItMe - we're so tired we love the idea of a night nanny... Thanks for letting me know how it is! Putting DS down without rocking etc etc and doing our backs in.

[Lionstar]

Well, for the last 2 nights he has - but we can't guarantee that is going to last LOL. Before that he'd wake as soon as he was put in the cot and seemed to be able to keep waking himself up every 5 minutes after that, even when being held and shushed and patted. It could then go on like that until 1am!

I don't know what is going to happen this evening as he has just fallen asleep in his bouncy chair now at 7pm. Wonder if I'll be able to keep him in sleep mode until morning now, or will we have a screaming period. I definately need to change his nappy again before we go to bed. Ho hum.

[IsItMeOr]

Oh I see! Yes, very easy for the six weeks before it all went pear-shaped (but in a very different way). I gave DS his bedtime feed and put him down in bed. He might cry a little and DH would comfort him/rock him and aim to put him down not quite asleep. This might take a few times, but he would go to sleep within 30-40mins (which was amazing compared to what we had before). Then DS would wake for two night feeds - I would feed him, which took about 20mins for both sides, then put him back in his cot, and generally we heard nothing more out of him until either the next feed or morning.

It seemed to go wrong for us when DS got teething and unsettled by going away on holiday. And possibly by us starting solids around 6mo. But after 4 months of this new pattern it has gone beyond anything that can be explained by any of those things, so we're now reluctantly giving controlled crying a try so that DS has a chance to learn how to fall asleep by himself. But we're at almost 9mo now, which is obviously very different to the 8week old stage. As starlight said, you just do what you need to to survive, and it often changes again at the 12-13 week mark.

[Igglybuff]

lionstar does he go to sleep easily afterwards? I've found that anything more than 1/1.5 hours makes DS cranky so it takes an age to get him to sleep... This is what stops me from trying to keep him awake!

[Lionstar]

We do a lot of playing, jiggling, pacing, patting etc. Start off with busy things first, but make it lower key as he gets more irritable. He does cry a bit, we just have to keep changing the position - he especially settles if I sit on the sofa and he sits/lies upright on my chest - facing away from me, then I rub his feet and jiggle them. He likes to crane his neck up and look at me - he is at his most 'chatty' in this position

[Igglybuff]

Yes IsitMeOr that does thanks. I also wondered if it was easy to keep it up once they'd gone?

Lionstar how do you keep them awake for three hours and then to sleep? If DS is awake for more than an hour he just cries and cries and is impossible to get to sleep.... It's tough!

[Lionstar]

I have every sympathy Igglybuff, as my 9 week old DS has been a notoriously bad sleeper at night pretty much from the off. At it's worst he pretty much screamed from 6pm to 1am! The last 2 nights have actually been OK, but I'm not deluded into thinking we have a resolution!

Things that I think have helped though:
Making him go at least 2 hours between feeds (he loves to snack but it makes him very windy)
We've had a few crainial osteopath sessions and I think that really helped with the colicky screaming
We no longer do a night time nappy change - at about 6 weeks he stopped doing a poo in the night, so I just boost his night nappy (we use cloth) so he goes right through
Getting relaxed about co-sleeping - using a gro-bag really helped so I stopped worrying about smothering in our bedding
Keeping him awake in the evening for about 3 hours before final bedtime at 10pm - the last 2 nights he has fallen straight asleep and gone in the moses basket (perhaps you can imagine just what celebration THAT has caused!!)

Of course there is no magic bullet, I think the biggest effect is probably just their growing out of it - but employing all these techniques gives us something to focus on in the meantime

[IsItMeOr]

Not sure what you mean by how easy/hard was the Night Nanny solution for us? It was difficult for us to let anybody in to start with, as DS was so young still and trusting him with anybody outside immediate family was a big step for us. The money wasn't an issue for us, as we had it (and my rule is always that money is only a problem if you don't have it - and I nag gently persuade DH until he agrees). The specific Night Nanny (and if you're in the Tooting area she might be available for you too) was a very experienced midwife, she didn't take over but after a few visits she did have a good chat with me and DH to gently explore what we would be open to achieving out of her presence, plus the agency owner was very active in encouraging her to help us make progress iyswim. So the process was a challenge, but a lot less challenging than doing nothing.

Does that answer your question? I haven't wanted to use a night nanny with resolving our current problems as DS is now old enough to have separation anxiety so (we reason) needs us specifically rather than a kind and gentle presence (which the NN definitely was - very calming effect on DS - and us!).

[Igglybuff]

neo I have visions of taking DS outside in the ridiculous weather - but now I know it won't work, will leave him be

I have to say it doesn't help when people (eg family) call DS naughty for not sleeping at night as I take it as a slur on my parenting!

[Igglybuff]

Polly Im too scared to move DS to his own room because he sometimes wakes up at night as he stops breathing for a second. I'm going to ask about it at his 8 week check on Tues. It might be normal but it freaks me out - sometimes he doesn't wake up but starts breathing again after I touch him (although he could start up again but I don't know!!)

We've got sleepbags which I've had mixed success with - sometimes he wakes himself up with a flailing arm though! we3 I'll check out the egg though as our bedrooms are either freezing or too hot and I think the cold wakes him sometimes.

[Igglybuff]

Thanks starlight although I'm not trying to force daytime naps - will only do it if he's tired cos if I leave him, he descends into a hell of overtiredness... So for example, he's tired now so I've stuck him in the sling to sleep or if I didn't have stuff to do, I'd put him in his cot.

IsItMeOr - yes it's a siege! And I don't dare not try something that has worked before. I've never been able to put DS down and he just sleeps (actually I did once by accident - I was about to put him in the sling as he was tired and he fell asleep. Unfortunately his legs were dangling off the sofa so couldn't leave him and I've never repeated it. Alas!) The Night Nanny solution - how easy/hard was it for you? I can't imagine just putting him down and he sleeps like that! (not that I've tried).

[pollydianasmummy]

I put my baby into her own room at 8 weeks and things changed dramatically from that first night. She slept better as she couldn't smell my milk or hear me, and I slept better as I didn't flinch at her every turn. It might be worth a try...

[neolara]

I feel your pain Igglebuff! I have had two nightmare sleepers and you sounds like you are having a particularly bad time.

FWIW, I found that absolutely nothing I did made any difference with my first DD until she was about 12 weeks. I couldn't get her to wake up when I wanted (once I took all her clothes off and put her outside in a gale to try to wake her - it worked for about 5 mins before I brought her inside and she fell straight back to sleep) and I certainly couldn't get her to sleep when I wanted. I was absolutel desparate and dreaded nightime. However, 12 weeks was a real turning point and she was 3 weeks early, so if you ds is already 8 weeks it might start to become easier very soon.

I would also recommend trying to get your ds to sleep after an hour or so. My dc3 is now 12 weeks and if she doesn't get to sleep after being awake an hour or so then she goes absolutely bonkers because she is so tired. It took me a while to work this out.

Having my dc3 has been a revalation. She is a very settled baby and has slept reasonably well from the start. I don't say this to boast, but because I thought it might be helpful to know that I haven't done anything different for her than I did for my first two dcs. I just got lucky this time.

If my first dc had slept well I'm sure I would have thought it was down to something I had done. Now I know better! Don't feel bad or think your ds's non sleeping is somehow your fault. It almost certainly isn't. In my desparate days, I used to think that there must be "the right way to do it" and if I found this "right way" then my baby would sleep. But now I think that very tiny babies just tend to do what they want and it's very difficult to get them to do otherwise. Parents who have success in getting them to follow, for example, a 3 hour schedule probably just have babies who would naturally follow a 3 hour schedule if left to their own devices. As the babies get older however, it get's easier and easier to get them to follow your lead.

As others have said, it really is just a phase"

[we3kingbeat23oforientare]

and i also use a sleeping bag as well, made alot of difference!

[we3kingbeat23oforientare]

Ooooh! I use the grobag room temp as one now...doiubles up for my anxiety over room temp too!! www.amazon.co.uk/Grobag-Egg-HC111/dp/B000DZF1WE/ref=sr_1_58?ie=UTF8&s=baby&qid=1259490968&sr=1-58&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 if that fails then use this even though it says 3mo + Used next to, not into crib is a nice nightlight. I use this