Just need some comfort and support

[Verso]

DD1 was a terrible sleeper - didn't sleep for more than about 45 minutes, maybe 90 minutes at a push, round the clock, until she was eight months old. By a year, she slept beautifully and has done ever since.

DD2 - a better sleeper from the word go... doing maybe three hours at a stretch pretty early on. Then a few weeks ago she did up to six hours, and then five hours, for three nights. I was over the moon!

However, apart from those three blissful nights she wakes every hour on the hour from 11pm onwards, having gone down beautifully at 6:30-7pm and done a stretch of four or so hours.

I am a wreck. My DH doesn't really understand. I went to the doctor yesterday and wept and he has prescribed antidepressants...

DD2 is exclusively breastfed. She is three months old today. My Mum thinks I should put her on formula (yawn). I won't. I don't feed her every time she cries, unless she's going through a growth spurt. I do leave her to self-settle if I think she will, but sometimes she just can't. DD1 wouldn't take a dummy, but I use a dummy from time to time with DD2 - and make sure it's out of her mouth before she falls "properly" asleep.

I'm not doing anything differently at the moment from when she was doing six hours in a row... so please don't tell me what I "should" be doing. I believe babies just learn how to sleep in their own time, no matter what books we read to the contrary.

What I want is comfort. Understanding from people who REALLY know what sleep deprivation feels like, and who won't joke about "it's a form of torture you know". Yes I DO KNOW. I AM EXPERIENCING IT AT THE MOMENT. I FEEL SICK WITH EXHAUSTION. It makes me feel so worthless and like I am the least cared-for person in this family. No one would care if I collapsed. But because I somehow manage to keep going day in, day out, everyone thinks I'm fine. I'm not!

I asked DH if he and Mum could share a night maybe once a week (he couldn't do a whole night as he has MS) - and he said he didn't think my Mum would be able to do the 2am-7am shift as it's too hard . Ok she's quite elderly, but it's amazing how no one else can be put through the pain of what I go through EVERY NIGHT.

I said to him that even if she did those five hours once a week, SHE COULD GO HOME AND SLEEP DURING THE DAY (she's retired). I can't do that! If DD2 is awake, SO AM I!

No one gets it. The relentless slog of 24/7 babycare. This was a much-wanted baby (after two miscarriages) but I really wonder whether she was a huge mistake .

[JustKeepSwimming]

lots of sympathy from someone who has been there and has only recently come out the other side.

it WILL get better.

take whatever help you can from whatever source.
stay sane.
give & take hugs as much as poss
(((hugs)))

sleep vibes to all.

(although the DCs are mostly sleeping well now, i still have my insomniac nights so they are not gone yet)

[lionsandtigersandbears]

Tea and sympathy here too. I'm so tired I've been in tears all day, posted abut CC out of desperation and been told off about it, altho had some lovely sympathetic advice too. I feel like a failure and have a huge cold sore and look yuck.

[eilidhsmum]

Just another message to let you know you are not alone.
My DD (now 2.7) was a bad sleeper and I honestly thought it couldn't be worse. DS was waking every 2 hrs initially which I could cope with. For the last 2 weeks he has been up every 30-45mins from 9.30 onwards. I feel like the walking dead. My judgement is shot, can't do 2 things at once like usual. Keep burning tea, cutting hands when cooking, dropping things etc. My immune system must be suffering as lots of wee cuts that won't heal.
I happen to already be on an antidepressant as suffered antanatal depression - I am sure it is the only thing preventing me from slipping into depression again. I remember those feelings of dread at bedtime from DD - I think no-one can really understand it unless they have suffered depression or anxiety themselves. Try to stick with the meds - they take a few weeks to work fully and it is worth trying another if the 1st lot don't work.

Like you - I don't want advice - do they think I haven't tried everything already (within reason - Iwon't do CC)?

We will get there in the end.

[Verso]

dropdeadfred DH doesn't really 'get' it. He says he copes better with sleep deprivation than I do - which is rich, given that the amount of broken sleep he has had since DD2 was born is negligible. Anyway - he came home after work last night in a conciliatory mood so I think my major wobbles the past week have made him realise it's serious and I'm not just (and I quote) "a bit tired".

[Verso]

Thank you so much, everyone. It's sad that so many of us have experienced this - but it is so so comforting to know I am not alone.

I did decide to start on ADs yesterday in the end so I hope they will start to help in a few weeks' time. In the meantime, I slept at my Mum's last night so I couldn't hear DD2 - asked the night nanny to do last night as well. Can't really afford it but was desperate. Anyway - irony was I woke every two hours like clockwork, even with ear plugs in. DD2 on the other hand slept from 12-5am without a murmur apparently! I think my brain has forgotten how to switch off .

Anyway, I think it has all been the dreaded 12-week growth spurt and she may be coming out of it now as she has been really lovely and settled and smiley during the day today. I am still a wreck but trying to just take each day as it comes... I had major mood swings and kept bursting into tears this morning but have calmed down now...

Thank you again, everyone. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy, I really wouldn't. It's horrific!

[Technoprisoners]

So sorry for you Verso because I know what it's like. My sleep has been truly crap since 2001, but I do get the occasional, very rare good night and you will too. It will happen. True sleep exhaustion distorts EVERYTHING. I can't tell you what to do for the best, but, sometime soon, you will get a few hours of uninterrupted sleep and it will feel like HEAVEN. Just remember that, and that the black thoughts are because of lack of sleep and nothing else.

[Dropdeadfred]

why does your dh get huffy? does he know how bad you are feeling?

[nurseynursey]

in tears reading your posts, my heart goes out to you.
dd 3yrs and always slept okay, but ds 8mths went through a phase of waking on the hr every hr, though now just wakes 2/3 times after midnight.
it is a living hell to suffer such exhaustion, once they are no longer newborn sympathy goes out window for us mums!

i have worked as a mental health professoinal for over 10yrs and see no reason why pills shouldn't help, they will def reduce your levels of anxiety which in turn may help you to sleep when you briefly get the chance. visits from a cpn (community psy nurse) may be more supportive than a hv? he/she could at least try and find any help available for you, and organise it - something you may struggle with due to your exhaustion.
it is so difficult to separate anxiety/fear/depression caused by sleep deprivation and pnd.

good luck and hang on in there

[lovelymama]

Big hugs, sympathy and a whole load of understanding from me. I've had mornings when my head can't lift off the pillow, I think my eyes are sealed shut and I've muttered under my breath to my crying baby "just shut up". I love, love, love my DS more than anything but his sleep habits from 15 weeks made me resent him so much and getting up every hour with him was the most horrific thing ever. And I didn't have any other children to worry about so I have no idea how much worse things must be for you.

Perhaps you could have PND. I sometimes think that I have it and it's always a million times more when I have a bad night with DS. You could maybe try some herbal remedies (Bach flower remedy - not sure if you can take it when BF though so maybe look for an alternative in Boots?) But if you really think it could be PND, go and see the doctor and don't feel one bit guilty about taking anti-depressants if you feel like they could help. Whatever helps make you feel better about yourself is absolutely right at the moment.

Very sad that you went to the train station the other day but very proud that you turned to coffee instead. I need 2 cups to turn me from Queen Bitch in to lovelymama every morning and prescribe 2 cups of coffee every day, preferably with some friends so you can have a good rant about how unhelpful DH is being.

Erm, that's it from me. Fingers crossed for a few hours kip for you tonight and enjoy every second of your sleep when the maternity nurse is there on Friday.

[SnowlightMcKenzie]

Verso,

Call Homestart on 0800 068 63 68. They have volunteers who may be able to come to you once a week for a couple of hours. You only need to have 1 child under 1yr old to qualify for their scheme.

[Verso]

meant

[Verso]

sorry, snowlight - I know I overreacted but I am so exhausted and I am trying so so hard to do what I can for my beautiful baby and any criticism - even if mean constructively - just crushes me.

I mean - I'm killing myself here but it's not enough. I just tried to get a nap as a local doula has been kind enough to come over today to look after DD2 so I could get some sleep and the cruel cruel irony is I am so very wired and wound up I have had one hour. One sodding hour of sleep.

I just keep waking in a panic with my heart pounding, thinking I can hear DD2 crying. No point even trying to sleep really . My brain doesn't seem to be able to do it anymore.

[SnowlightMcKenzie]

Verso Goodness me. I didn't intend any hurt. My response wasn't to patronise you, or suggest you aren't doing your very best for your children, only to imagine that you probably don't know whether you are coming or going and to remind you of what you might be able to do to help.

Your OP did say you didn't want advice, but your examples suggested it was the harsher techniques that you were unprepared to try. Sorry that I got this wrong, and sorry that I upset you. It is the last thing you need at the moment and I feel quite bad if I'm honest.

I won't offer any more advice or suggestions as I feel I have broken your trust, however JustKeepSwimming talks sense.

Here's wishing you a quick passage through this phase and good luck.

[JustKeepSwimming]

Verso - my one comment would be SOD YOUR DH!

If you went to bed when she did (& pissed him off, so what!) you could get a few hours sleep, then maybe get another block after the first feed, then grab whatever minutes you can from there.

You would feel so much better for getting those extra hours, this would make you happier, keep you away from that train station , etc.

Tell your (D)H to take a running jump about getting pissed off. silly man!

some more ((hugs)) and sympathy for you.

[Verso]

and I shoukldhave said "I don't feed her every time she cries IN THE NIGHT" sorry I wasn't precise but my brain is mush

Of course I feed my baby/ I am horrified that you could accuse me of not feeding her. I feed her and she is gaining weight really well. I just WILL NOT set up a pattern of snack-snooze-snack during the night. I WILL NOT.

I have been there before and it was hellish. This time she gets a good feed - 30-45 minutes if she likes - and then goes down to sleep beautifully. I know she can do it because she does it in the early part of the night.

sorry I am ranting but I am so hurt that you could think I would deliberately ignore her hungry cries .

Have you ANY IDEA how patronising and condescending your "please do" is? Like I don't know how to nourish my own child. Please leave this thread and take your unwanted "help" elsewhere.

[Verso]

snowlight I used to feed DD1 whenever she cried and she just got into a pattern of snacking and snoozing round the clock - for eight months. I won't make that mistake a second time, sorry.

This way, at least she naps during the day and then has one big-ish block of sleep at night.

sorry if I sound angry but I did say I didn't want advice.

I AM angry because I've been up again all night. i've had 3hrs and 7 minutes of sleep - the early part of the night. I would go to bed after the bedtime feed but (D)H gets huffy about it.

Mind you I am pretty much suicidal at this point. I did in fact consider throwing myself in front of a train last week but couldn't do it to my babies. Left the house, stormed up the road (DD2 was in the house with Mum) and got to the station... but ended up going to town and getting a decaff and coming back.

skimty I have days where I don't drive either. I really really really know how you feel. Where do you live? Maybe we could split shifts with each other?

[Skimty]

Don't think about the future - it will send you mad. You'll cope because you can.

[Skimty]

Verso, it's that sick dry feeling in your mouth and the thumping headache and the listlessness so you're too tired to go to bed. You're not even tired any more, just in a zombified state.

I really do understand. Both of mine are waking up through the night and I am sick of it. I have no idea what to do, nobody will help me, I don't have a break, people just mutter platitudes, I'm now getting scared to drive.

I want someone to give a shit and realise that it's been weeks since I've had 3 hours sleep in a row and yet I'm still supposed to function like a normal human being.

DS is 2.5 and sleeps almost as badly as DD (5 months). I've just come back from the GP, he's told me that he's clearly sleep deprived and if it continues he'll have real problems but there's nothing he can do except refer me to the health visitors who have been a pile of shit.

Anyway, you're not alone!

[SnowlightMcKenzie]

less 'hungry' at night - doh!

[SnowlightMcKenzie]

Verso You say you don't feed her every time she cries. Please do, especially in the day time. It may help her be less tired at night.

Secondly either put her to bed when you go (so you get a four hour stretch) or go to bed when she does (so you get a four hour stretch). If you are not sleeping those magic four hours then imo it is wasted. Use it to get your own rest.

hth

[calaminecovered]

I really feel for you! dd2 is 11 weeks and I thought I was starting to get to grips with the new arrival but this week she is such hard work and I feel like crap again. I dread the evenings approaching but I also dread the day as she hardly naps unless on me and screams if she's put down. She is also a nightmare with feeding which doesnt help my anxiety because I am constantly worrying if she is getting enough! I can't beleive I still feel like such a novice with my third baby! The one thing that keeps me going is that I know from the last two that at some point it will get easier! Sending lots of hugs your way x.

[Verso]

Thanks for the sympathy - it really helps to know I'm not alone. I can cope with the days - just - (though I have just burnt dinner because I forgot about it as my memory is completely messed up) - because I find things to do and people to see and keep cheery and active but the nights come and I start getting this creeping dread - no other way to describe it - and anxiety and fear and it's just horrific and I don't know if I can keep on doing this for months and months and months like I did with DD1 but what else can I do if she needs to be comforted or fed or whatever? How the hell am I supposed to survive this?

[Katharine19]

you poor thing. I have SOOO much sympathy - am I only have 1 ds, so I could at least rest in the day a bit. Nothing really to add except HUGE hugs, and that I agree completely that they get there in their own time. DS is 10 months, and we've just had 3 unbroken nights in the last week - it can and will get better.

He went through a horrific stage at about 3 - 4 months, awake for hours in the night. Our friends lent us a rocking crib (he had just grown out of moses basket) - I put it next to the bed and just rocked it with my foot, and sometimes that was enough to send him back off to sleep without me getting up.

Hope things improve and that the maternity nurse can give you a break
x

[maisie215]

This sounds so so tough for you. I have a four month old who isn't a great sleeper at times. Last night he too was up every hour or so but some nights he does do longer stretches. I was just wondering if you have thought about using the dummy for sleep. YOu say you take it out before she is properly asleep but maybe it is worth it to just leave her with it. My DS has a dummy which I was very reluctant to start using but TBH it makes the nights a bit easier. If he is awake he usually takes the dummy and falls back asleep again. As far as I'm concerned it is a risk worth taking (in terms of needing it to sleep)if it means when they do wake up all it takes is popping the dummy back in. Half the time I practically do this in my sleep!

Hope things get better for you.

[Verso]

I've asked her, and she said yes, she will split a night with DH. DH also tried to do the earlier part of last night for me, but despite earplugs I thought I heard DD2 in the middle of the night and went upstairs - in the process I woke him up so he's none too pleased this morning.

I took over the night shift from midnight and was up at 1am, 2am, 3am 4am, 4:30am and 5:30am - DD2 up and ready to start the day with a feed at 6am. At least I got three hours' sleep from 9pm to midnight .

It's horrible. It's making me irritable, weepy and irrational. I'm snapping at DH and I feel less than glowing towards my DDs, which isn't fair on anyone.

Does anyone know if the tablets will help take the edge off how I'm feeling? I'm confused as to whether it really IS PND, or if I'm just (just!) physically and mentally exhausted.

superbunny I have had a maternity nurse a couple of times, which was great, but it was an extravagance I can't afford to keep doing indefinitely. She's coming again on Friday though, thank God.