Does anyone else have a baby who never naps?

[tenacityflux]

My DD is 11 weeks, and won't nap - if I put her in her crib she sits for a while and screams, I comfort her but she won't go back without screaming. I try not to let her fall asleep on the breast but if she feeds and is sleepy I will put her in her crib, might get 10 mins, no more; In the pram she will go ofrf after 20 mins but be awake 10 mins after we stop; and the sling she will nap for hours but I don't want this to be the only place she sleeps. At night we put her in her rocking crib (awake) by our bed and some nights she rocks to sleep, sometimes she wakes on and off all evening and is rocked back asleep; when she finally goes she will probably sleep till 12.30 then comes to bed with us as she will never settle back in her crib - but during the day so is so awake, and I worry this will effect her night times and make her over tired, but apart from whiskey in my morning tea, what can I try?Sleep books always assume your DD naps in the day time, they never tackle that!

[tenacityflux]

Hello!
Ok, where are we now? I am trying to give DD 2 naps a day in the sling and proof it does help is that I am a bit ill today so I only managed to walk her once, I tried napping with her in the sling and we went off fine but I tried to move her out and she woke after half an hour, and I couldn't get her back to sleep - end result, temper tantrums and screaming at bath time and I fear she'll be awake early as we had to get her to bed early. I still can't get her to nap any other way but a slight improvement is that after an hour in the sling, I can usually put her in her bed and she opens her eyes, and has then gone back to sleep.
She's had a cold so the nights have been difficult and she's been waking more - but I am coping - just!
Julie - I have tried her on infant Gaviscon but the recommended 6 does made her really constipated - she was screaming in pain trying to pass a stool and we had to give her a bath to ease things along - so at the moment I give her one dose as she has one bottle in the evening (BF the rest of the day, a legacy from early mixed feeding problems) - which I hope helps settle her.
We have got a sleep routine which is quite mad - DH marches her up and down saying 'hup 2 3 4' for 10 mins, then puts her in her crib and we push it back and forth so it drags on the floor for 10 mins which sends her to sleep and then gradually change to rocking it on it's rockers, slower and slower, all to the sound of waves breaking on the shore. My hope is that we can gradually reduce the mad dragging phase to rocking and then slowly reduce that, we put her down awake so she does fall asleep in her bed - but perhaps this is all just fooling myself! It's just that nothing else has ever worked, and this pretty much sends her off. It only works once though, once she wakes in the night, it's in bed with me or nothing - last night I tried rocking her between 12 and 2 - when I stopped she cried, she was happy while being rocked but in the end I figured letting her feed in bed was the better option!
But - what success did you have with infant gaviscon, did you use 6 doses a day or less?What were your DD's symptoms?

[juliegillard]

Hi there, I just found this thread - not sure if it's still active.

I just wanted to say - have you considered whether your little one might have silent reflux? My little girl has it (only fairly mild luckily) and it makes her SO grumpty. She also didn't sleep well at all for the first couple of months until I put her on Gaviscon.

You can buy Infant Gaviscon without prescription, so personally I would try it. If that proves to be the problem then you will have good grounds to insist that your GP prescribes it.

Julie

[TheGabster]

Tenacity - are things any better?

[TheGabster]

Sorry about the PIL - my mum is v. interfering and we just won't go there! They can be a pain but just use and abuse - whatever you need to do to get yourself to a better place.

You will always have support here whenever you want it - we have to stick together with these things!

But naps sound fab for yesterday! That's really good news. Just keep at it any way you can and if it gets too much, pass the parcel (hand DD to DH or anyone else who stupidly finds themselves nearby!). I think the yawning in the bath idea was right, just its going to take time to get her over it all so (unfortunately) by the time she yawned it may have frustratingly been too late already.

I know you said you have NCSS so read the beginning again and see if it helps (I love the way E Pantly writes).

[tenacityflux]

oh, thank you, we do all of that apart from the swing seat as we haven't got one,so that would make it hard but sleep deprivation may see me having a go...and unfortunately my mum who lives near us is disabled and can't carry the baby or push chair down our stairs as we live in a flat, the inlaws are coming ( said in a similar style to help, the redcoats are coming) to stay for 3 days - which as you might imagine is a mixed blessing - what with fil who starts every sentence with 'I'm not racist but....' and the bottle feeding queen and cc fan mil - oh well, they can take out out for a walk at least,I shouldn't be so mean, it's just they are not the people you might choose to have a break down in front of, and be told endlessly how their sons ( though not DH, which may be why we're in this situation..)all slept like angels from day one.But thank you,thank you for replying to me, I am feeling better today because DD was a bit more peaceful in the night and DH got her to nap in the basket for 1 1/2 in the morning and she's had 2 hours in the sling and soon I shall do the bath thing and rocking, patting,feeding, whatever I can - and I'll give swaddling a go,and think -'Only 6 1/2 more months 6 to go....! I am trying to get her to sleep, when I got up today she was yawing in the bathroom in her bouncy chair so I quickly ran back to bed, but no dice, she lay there with me kicking merrily! Ho hum, I really ought to stop moaning and repeat 'This too will pass!' I had a go at putting her back in her bed but 2 seconds on the bed and she went purple in the face so not having that yet!

[ilovelovemydog]

It's only been in the last week that DS has napped. He's 10 months now, and just would not nap. Ever.

Unless in car seat on a long journey - how do they know

He needs about 20 minutes of crying to get himself to sleep...

[TheGabster]

Ooooh - just thought - your DD is still quite young. Have you tried swaddling? This was a great help with DS and is often recommended for refluxy babies as they fuss so much (used to have to swaddling DS to BF too ).

[TheGabster]

OK, here are some of the things we did that worked on DS/got him to sleep (maybe post another thread asking others what they do too!).

Rock in crib (sometimes sideways, sometimes forwards backwards)
Over shoulder (as if to burp) and pat
Cradle in arms and sway, rock or generally jiggle (as in up and down on balls of feet)
walking over bumping ground in pushchair
pushing back and forward in pushchair
rocking in maxicosy/car seat
sit in chair in the dark and hold him tightly
holding on shoulder and pacing up and down

Sounds like you are also getting to that horrible stage where what got them to sleep yesterday does not work today so you keep having to try new things. Pick one and stick with it for AT LEAST 10m, 20m if you can. Time yourself if you need to, but if you keep switching techniques too quickly, then it can stimulate them even more so be careful. Maybe DD needs to be nearer 1hr between sleeps to start with? Does she go off in the pushchair usually? I know you are pooped but are there other family members or something who can take her out in the pushchair to get her to sleep whilst you have a rest? We always found bumpy forest tracks were the most effective for DS (and still are).

Stick at it. I know it is really pants at the moment but it will NOT always be like this - you just need to break the cycle. I wish I could be more help.

Good luck.

[tenacityflux]

Gaak - I have no way of getting her to sleep, we've been trying since 6 pm, 2 hours after her last nap and it is now 10.30 and nothing, she won't sleep. I have rocked her, fed her, put her in the sling twice, pushed her back and forth, laid her still, SHE HAS BEEN AWAKE FOR 6 1/2 HOURS and she is still crying the moment we leave her and waking herself up. I just can't go on with this, I would happily get let her sleep every two hours but what so you do when nothing sends her to sleep,, nothing, nothing!She won't sleep in my arms, in DH's arms, in the sling, in the pram, in the bed, feeding, nothing.

[TheGabster]

p.p.s. - know what you mean by wanting to walk away. Have to agree with other posters - enlist family help to get some rest. We all have a good cry in the mornings some days - you are not alone!

[TheGabster]

Hi Tena.

Yup, we helped DS to sleep as soon as we saw any sleepy signs. It took a few days (about 5 I think) before he seemed to be easier to settle and I could pat him to sleep and then after 10 mintues, put him in the cot.

Distinctly remember one day he rubbed his eyes in the middle of breakfast and so I whisked him off to the bedroom still with a mouthful of breakfast!! .

But it took a few weeks until he could go longer than 1.5hrs between naps or sleep longer than 20m/30m (huge giveaway of over-tired). Personally found DS impossible to assist back to sleep if he woke due to overtired.

Generally, we made sure if it had been 2hrs since his last sleep, then we made sure he slept again anyway - even if there were no signs. Also, would ignore first wake up in morning (unless he was crying/really unhappy) and give him 20/30m to get himself back to sleep before getting him up. Found this a huge help!

P.S. seems that most babies go through horrible stages of sleep fiascos aound 3-4mnths so don't stress too much. It's fairly common/normal.

[tenacityflux]

Gabster - you just got your DS to sleep as much as possible until they had 'caught up' with sleep?

[tenacityflux]

Thank you every one - it's hard to outline a day as the last two have been all over the 0place, but so far she went to sleep by 8.30 last night, I went to bed at 10, she woke at 1.15 and I put her in to bed with me for a feed, she woke me again at 3.30 and fed and was awake until 5.00 when she began to get upset and cried, woke Sh, I went to lie on the temporary bed in the nursery but she got really up set and cried more, I changed her as she was damp and she screamed and DH took her down stairs. I slept until 8 when she needed a feed, then fed her until 9, got up and had a shower, cried my eyes out thinking I wanted to 3walk away from everything;then woke DH at 10.30 and we took her for a walk, she slept for half an hour in the pram; then came back, DG managed to get her to sleep for three hours in the afternoon by pushing her back and forth in the crib; I slept for an hour,she has now been awake since 4 and it's half nine, she now won't sleep in the sling, and we're pushing the crib again but she's crying and won't settle, I couldn't face trying to make her sleep upstairs again tonight, but even just sitting with her is no good, she just gets upset. I would like to try giving up co-sleeping but the problem is she never goes to sleep after a feed, so I am up for hours of the night with her until she cries and she keeps us both up, I can try it again but nothing I do seems to make her sleep, I haven't tried her in her cot in the nursery as it doesn't move and so far the only thing which has sometimes worked is rocking her. What I would like to do is have enough energy to take her out twice in the day to help her sleep so she might sleep better at night, but I am just running on empty and I have no idea how to get her to sleep. I do try and have a bedtime routine of bath,massage,feed,sing/music,bed, but then that's followed by two + hours crying and rocking. It doesn't seem to matter what time I start this, it never gets any easier. I want to enjoy this time but I'm so desperate and worried she is doing herself harm with the lack of sleep, never mind us!

[ChrismumMiaow]

Second the husband helping with the naps. We have relatives here and DS finds it hard to switch off with other people in the house so DH has taken the visiting dog and DS out for a walk to get a nap

[swanriver]

Tenacity, could you ask your husband to take the baby out in the sling, so that you could get a rest and then do the same for him later? It sounds as if you (both?) are completely exhausted and although the walking in a sling to give a long nap is a good idea you NEED a nap. You are feeding a baby and you need to look after yourself.
If the co-sleeping is not working, ditch it. My daughter used to snuggle up to me beautifully and feed herself to sleep, but as she got a bit older say 12-13 weeks she could not tune out in bed, and as you describe fed on/off throughout the night, which meant I couldn't sleep at all. She was so beady and wired. So I did just put her in a cot, and we both slept much much better. This was at night. I was keeping her awake, and vice versa. When she woke in the night to feed, (say twice between 8 & 7) I bf her, winded her, then she screamed her head off for five mins, then I sort of worked out she was screaming because she was tired and desperate to go back to sleep, so stopped jiggling her put her firmly back in her cot and within two mins she was asleep! She is just the same now, aged six, I mean screaming with overtiredness and then poof! asleep with comforter and thumb in mouth. Christmas is exhausting, 1'm not surprised you are feeling desperate.

[TheGabster]

Just wanted to say you are so not alone! My DH is much calmer/better at settling DS and we went through a horrible stage like you have now where we could not settle DS, anbd knew he was over-tired. You have my full sympathy!

Did you say DD has reflux? We had this too and definitely found DS hated sleeping on his back/found it uncomfortable. He would only sleep in the pushchair or on DH (on his front). We raised the end of the bed which seemed to help and he now sleeps on his side anyway (puts himself there). We still have troubles with settling sometimes but things are a lot better - so don't loose hope.


If it helps, we decided the important thing was to break the over-tired sleep cycle so we just concentrated for 3/4 days on getting him sleep however we could so it meant lots of walking with the puschair for me, and lots of sleepless nights with DS on his chest for DH but once we got over the initial over-tired it DID get easier. He was having a nap every 1hr30m to start with!

We also used NCSS methods, but not until we got into a bit of a regular sleep pattern. NCSS can work but it takes a while is all. Once you get to that stage, you will (hopefully) get some confidence that you CAN settled DD, which might help with the stress/panick at nap/sleep times (I know it helps me)?

Hope some of this helps. G

[ChrismumMiaow]

tenacity - if your DD responds better to your DH, its because they can sense how wound up we get, and he won't have been dealing with it for so long. When DS wasn't sleeping well at 6 months he always settled better for DH.

What does she do if you don't try to get her to go to sleep at a specific time? Did you try just settling yourself in a quiet spot, giving her a cuddle and seeing how she goes? It might not work but better for her to be settled and quiet than for you to be getting wound up because she won't sleep.

I cant think of any more practical advice re bedtime etc, I just wanted you to know someone is here!?

Can you post a rough outline of how your day normally goes, and maybe we can find some little ways to help?

[tenacityflux]

Oh rubbish,going to have a moan, sorry, I can't do anything right. I have been trying to get DD to nap but she will only nap in the baby sling, and I can't get her to nap long enough, she won't sleep at night, it takes us hours of rocking to get her to sleep, then she's awake all night not really feeding but mouthing me;the one time she falls asleep I can't because I'm too wired; I have been trying to settle her and spent 40 mins in the dark with mozart and wave sounds playing, having fed her, bathed her, fed her; with her screaming and screaming in my arms, I rock her, she screams, she arches her back, I know she's over tired but I can't get her to sleep and I know that's all she needs, eventually I start crying, convinced she hates me. HOW CAN I HELP HER SLEEP, she is desperate for sleep and yet she screams and cries, I am so tired and so worried she will make herself ill soon. DH is setteling her upstairs now rocking and rocking, she responds better to him than me. Tomorrow I shall try and get her to have two hours naps in the morning and two in the afternoon in the sling, what else can I do?

[tenacityflux]

Thankyou swanriver - I have been trying a musical toy but without much success, trouble is DH is a bit impatient and if things don't work after a few days, he tends to want to abandon them - I'm getting my brother to do me a cd of mozart which might be easier for us to stand than the dreaded Spanish language speaking musical catapillar we got sent by my mad Aunt from New Mexico!(It even counts in spanish..)I will keep on going with it - as she lies there not sleeping and getting up set I sometimes wonder if the musical catapillar is now linked with being in bed when she doesn't want to be now!

[tenacityflux]

hello and thanks - me banging on again!I have the No cry book, so I hope I'm doing what she suggests and trying gently to get her not to fall asleep on the boob - I ended up doing bedtime as she gets really grumpy at 5-ish and so having a bath before six seems to help and then it seems natural to try doing the feed/bed thing, and it gives us an evening together - or it was - but perhaps it is all too soon, just not sure how to keep her happy!She just doesn't go to sleep easily,at any time, even when she's really tired bless her. Books never address what you do when they just won't sleep and keep themselves awake when they obviously really need to sleep - I have tried getting her to sleep in the sling and after an hour, transfering her to the bed, but she's wise to that one now and just wakes up with a scream!I know things will be different soon, hell, maybe worse I guess I'm not very good at the baby stage, I adore the moments she responds to me and I want more of them, I know this is a magic time but I also really want to get to where she's older and we can do more fun stuff together - whatever added problems that brings!I can't go back to work as I was self employed and had to close down anyway, but think I am so lucky in a way as how sad would it be to go to work when she's 3 months old like some people have to, you've got through the worst bit and then miss so much of the rest!

[swanriver]

Sleep association tips. Music box, wind up music that only goes on at bedtime or nap, and a comforter like a little knotted woolly rabbity rag (not too big) or a little newborn woolly cardigan that smells of you. Put it down with her and say some mantra like sleepy sleepy time and then leave her for two mins. Return if still crying and repeat mantra, stroking forehead, put music on if nec. Then leave again for 2 mins. But you have to put her down before she's completely overtired or this won't work. If my baby hadn't been asleep for 2 hours (catnap counted) she was tired.
On the other hand I agree with op that anything will do if it gets your baby to have an nap (sling, sitting with her in your arms)because she needs to sleep at such a young age.

[ChrismumMiaow]

Oh, and except for a brief period (I can't remember when) when DS would fall asleep in his cot while playing, he pretty much never 'napped' till I consciously tried to get him to at around 5 months. (which failed for quite a while).

He slept on me, in the pushchair, sling, wherever, as and when he wanted. At that point he could sleep through anything so it was never a problem until he started being distracted by things as he got older. It worked for us!

[ChrismumMiaow]

tenacity - sounds like you've got the feeding sorted at least, and that the sling is helping!

Have you read the No Cry Sleep Solution? I'll happily lend you my copy when I'm better and can get out and post it. Its been a while since I've read it, but it might help you set up some gentle things to do before DD gets older and actually does get into habits!

If you're having to rock for that long, I would personally just leave the bedtime for the moment, sit in bed feeding (or just letting her suck if that's what she wants and its not too uncomfortable for you) with a book or the TV on low, and allow yourself to relax for the evening. Then try again with the bedtime every so often to see if she'll settle. At this age DS was still cluster feeding at that time of night and would never have settled. I can imagine 2-3 hours of rocking gets very very tiring for you too!.

She's very very litle to be left - I did let mine cry, but not till gone 6 months, and only for a while to stop him waking every hour or so all night - since then we've gone back to everything else to settle him, and when we have bedtime right (he recently mysteriously changed it from 6pm to a little after 7pm), he generally settles quite quickly (on the breast) and wakes once a night for a feed (which sometimes isn't till 5am!)

I'm not sure what to do if its just comfort sucking, but perhaps you could try to figure out if there is something else bothering her. Wind? Teeth?

Hope you find some advice that helps you!

[tenacityflux]

I guess it could be a growth spurt - I hate leaving her, my friend made me do it once and I was so frazzled I let myself be talked into it, and DD went purple in the face screaming and then I couldn't stand it any longer. Not sure how you tackle sleep association problems, I keep asking DH not to use the dragging across the floor method, but when it's 4 am and nothing else has worked, you tend to give in. I know it could be worse, In just wish I had more idea of what to do for the best, and confidence in myself!

[swanriver]

She had brilliant naps in cot in day as well, but never in pram, carseat.