Last night I let my baby cry. It didn't help and now I feel awful. What else can I do?

[MamaChris]

6.5mo ds has never been a great sleeper, wakes every 20min-1hr through the night and the ONLY way to get him back to sleep is bf. It means I haven't had even 2 solid hours sleep in months and I'm on the point of collapse. He's not always hungry, I think it's just he knows no other way to get to sleep.

So last night at 9.30 I felt I just could not feed him back to sleep again, and I sat holding him, rocking and singing and patting while he got more and more upset. I was in tears, but kept thinking it must work in a minute, and if I feed him now he'll think he just has to scream louder to be fed next time. By 10.30 I couldn't do it any more and fed him, he went to sleep right away and slept for a full hour before we went back to our usual night wakings.

I had always said I would never let my baby cry to sleep, but last night I just couldn't face another night of such broken sleep. I let him cry, trying everything I could except bf to calm him, and nothing worked. What else can I do? I CANNOT keep not sleeping the way we are now.

[nolongerchunkybutstillapudding]

by the way,how're u doing mama chris??hope u are getting a bit more rest?things have been a bit tough here but we're surviving!xx chunk xx

[nolongerchunkybutstillapudding]

yes,too young to be manipulative and imho too young for cc.but then I'm just not sure I could do cc.it is tough when baby won't sleep tho and u have my sympathy.personally I wouldn't/couldn't leave a baby to cry...as you may have gathered from earlier parts of this thread!!

[simba1]

Is a baby too young to do control crying at 5 months. Our baby boy gets hysterical every night when we put him to bed after his feed. We sing to him and rock him, but it takes about an hour of screaming hysterically for him to finally drop off at about 9.00pm. Is he too young to be manipulative? We are just not sure why he gets so upset.

[ali23]

For what it's worth Mama, here's my tuppence worth. My DD is now almost 16 months and has never slept through the night yet, but there have been massive improvements of late.
I have only just stopped feeding during the night, not because she needed it for nutritional reasons, but that she always looked for it for comfort and to get back to sleep. I tried, like you, on a couple of occasions not to do it and what we ended up with was a stressed, angry and exhausted house. The baby resisted singing, walking, rocking, talking, stroking - everything until she got the boob juice. I remember at about six/seven months she was up every hour-two and I was in despair. I read and re-read the NCSS and took lots of good advice from it and it helped a lot.
Anyway, I went with the feeding through the night, even when my friends and family told me exactly what they thought of it, and in the past few nights when she has woken I have sung her back to sleep and it has worked - and without tears! But she is much older now and that's just the way it has been.
She still wakes once or twice a night but I was where you are. I see this as success!
I hope things get better for you, but the long and short of my message to you is do whatever you have to to get through the night. It'll get easier. And sleep, sleep, sleep if you can when the baby sleeps. It makes such a difference.

[ARAG]

Sounds like you need to fill up your sleep tank any way you can at the mo. How about that night off idea? Or how about forgetting about any plan for a week... just getting the lo back to sleep the quickest possible way so that you could manage some/any shut eye. That way, with a bit of a recharge of your batteries, you could approach whatever plan with renewed zeal (or at least with a handful of functional brain cells). This suggestion's in the NCSS... 'Take a Break'.

If a night off can't work, what about a morning off? A babysitter or relative? You've got to fill that tank!

[MamaChris]

twins! I can't imagine what this would be like with twins! much respect. think you're right, we're not planning to stop bf (apart from anything else, he's refused any attempt at bottles so far), but need to persuade him that food is good too so sorry that you're still sad about stopping bf. but with twins, I imagine double the tiredness, and think you did amazingly well just to survive, let alone to bf 6 months!

[yeahyeah]

Meant to say this is also when I stoppped breastfeeding, I have twins...so it was hard going at night...i still think it was too early and regret it though. Bottle feeding didn't really make any difference. I know you don't think it's cause he's hungery but it does sound similar to me and it's only in retrospective that I really think I understand why they were constantly waking and wanting to breastfeed just a bit. I think the waking is just what happens at this age when they are starting to need the calories from food, it's that transition from milk to food. Think a good idea to work on the food, but don't give up the breastfeeding unless you're sure, I still feel really sad about it.

[yeahyeah]

I remember that time as being the hardest...they seem to sleep a lot better from 4-6 months, then all of a sudden waking up all the time. After they start eating properly it gets better again...but i do remember it, and buying books (like they would help) on what to do for a "no cry solution" or some b'locks...

can't offer any help except try to get him to eat as much as possible during the day...and tell you it will be over...can anyone give you a night off?

[MamaChris]

cuddles no good - he fights being held, or patted. sounds like your first! last night was awful, but he's nearly 7 months now and I'm holding out for the 8 month mark which various people have said can be a breakthrough point. just hope it is for ds!

that cosleeping thread useful nolongerchunky, lots to read, so am working my way through it, thanks.

[BananaSkin]

If it were me, I'd probably hang in there feeding to sleep until it was safe to do a softer version of controlled crying or pick up/put down type thing (actually you could probably do that latter now couldn't you?). It's a very difficult age. Could you get him to sleep by hanging over the cot and cuddling and gradually withdrawing out of the room over the course of a week or so? Or what about just cuddling to sleep instead of feeding so that at least he gets use to going longer between feeds?

It's so difficult to say without knowing the child. With our first it was impossible to comfort him without the breast, but our second and third responded better to the things I have suggested.

Good luck - it sounds grim, but it does get better .

[nolongerchunkybutstillapudding]

oh, not sure if you've seenthis thread?

others with similar issues... though they all seem to be getting somewhere at the mo!

[nolongerchunkybutstillapudding]

ps he seems to be feeding all the time at the mo too... know how you feel!

[nolongerchunkybutstillapudding]

hey mamachris.

well we had a couple of very exciting 7.30ish til 1am type nights (then loads of wakings but still, incredibly exciting!) but it all went pear shaped yesterday... tried to do stuff with dp as we are trying to decorate and sort mani's (ds's) room out at last... this messed up naps and feeds and stuff (not that we are ever that routiney but there is a vague shape to our day!)

and he wouldn't eat any tea, which I actually think has started to have a helpful effect on sleep as he starts to eat more. He just screamed when I put him in high chair as was stupidly overtired.

still got him down alright (fed him into a stupor ) but we had lots of wakings lots of feeds and at 4.30am I gave up and brought him to our bed.

really glad you are getting somewhere. It amazes me what seems 'good' now, I used to feel like I MUST have AT LEASET 8 hours or I would be knackered (wistful sigh...) whereas now if I get over 2 at a stretch things are going ok.

hoping for more of the 7.30-after midnight sleeps tho!!!

I can't get dp to do any 'soothing' type stuff. as far as mani is concerned, Daddy means Playtime!!!!

good luck with tonight. gonna try and get my boy to nap now (where did I put that hammer???)

[MamaChris]

how's it going nolongerchunky? ds has been feeding every hour or two during the day the last few days. which is exhausting. and he's also been actually swallowing some food (yoghurt, at least, and sucks a corner of toast). coincidentally (I no longer believe in cause and effect when it comes to sleep), he's slept for about 2 hours at a time at night and until 6am. don't want to sound like I'm boasting, but... yay!

still feeding to sleep, but if he starts struggling when he comes off (normally does), I'm trying patting before putting him back on, and that is sometimes working. so maybe progress there too.

dp has tried patting, but unless we get in there within 10 nanoseconds of him waking, he just gets too worked up that patting will do anything without a feed first to calm him down.

[damadilemma]

just a thought. what about if your dh does the patting/rocking etc? can just work them up more if its mum doing it and they can smell the milk etc but not getting any...

btw - i've pretty much been in the same situation and ended up thinking my marriage and sanity was more important than some crying so dh took the brunt of it and I've been sleeping in the spare room for a couple of days and god I feel like a different woman. cracked the night feeding too.

[nolongerchunkybutstillapudding]

ummm... wouldn't say i'm coping as such... just constantly going 'aaargh, be careful, ooo no don't try and climb up... no please don't crawl off the... aaargh (blub)'

was in o2 shop today trying to sort my phone out, he crawled the length of the shop! (with dp following, not alone!) then tried to climb one of their displays whilst babbling at the top of his voice - nutter!!!

on the plus side he bizarrely slept from 7.30 til 1ish last night. didn't manage more than an hour and half at a time from then on, and today's naps have been rubbish, but still that gives me hope

i'm back to feeding to sleep. doing whatever works at the mo. i think i will try the on-and-off thing as described by maenad if i can find the strength.

WELL DONE for managing a pat-back-to-sleep! I think I've only ever managed that about twice ever, I usually give in before he does...

good luck tonight xx

[ThatBigGermanPrison]

Try giving him some nurofen, he might be teething.

[Sariska]

Hi again MamaChris. I just wanted to offer what I hope may be some encouragement for you to keep going with your efforts not to feed him to sleep. I have been persisting with the same thing for the past couple of weeks (initially doing as you describe and allowing him a few extra sucks when he got very upset and gradually trying to reduce the level of milk-drunkeness before putting him down) and it does seem that it is starting to have an effect. My ds does now seem to recognise his new sleep cues (the same song and my hand placed softly on his chest while I rock the hammock gently). He is far from being a good sleeper but if I can get him to go to sleep this way it does make the next wake-up easier. Things get harder by about 4 or 5am but, hey, who posting on the Sleep section really expects miracles!

[MamaChris]

thanks maenad and nolongerchunky. sharing the pain does seem to help

I've been trying to not feed him to sleep for the first sleep again, but once he gets upset, I offer him a nipple and it only takes a couple of sucks and he's off. will keep going with that, maybe taking him off a second time just as he's going. agree maenad, I think it's most important to sort this first sleep, when I have the energy to stick with it and with the thought that once he learns that one, he can put it to use later in the night.

but. but... BUT... last night, I did manage to pat him back to sleep once I was lying awake, so I caught him just as he was stirring, but still... progress

nolongerchunky, teeth are a bummer aren't they? ds was up every 10 minutes 4 nights solid with his first two (they came in a pair too, but he has no more since I can't predict what will happen with the rest). how're you coping with the moving baby while your so tired? am really hoping I'll be getting more sleep before that happens!

[nolongerchunkybutstillapudding]

mamachris -

have read most of this thread but my eyes are getting blurry, I'm sooooo tired!

ds is 7mo and a decent night's sleep is a distant (very happy) memory. i bf too and whenever he wakes i preety much always feed him, and he goes back to sleep. daytime naps he's rocked in the buggy (otherwise i would have to drug him )

at the moment he is just perfecting crawling and has learned to pull up to standing, and i know developmental stuff can make sleep worse, i keep telling myself that this is the reason why things have been worse than ever lately and its not cos i'm a crap mum!

oh and he's just cut his first 2 teeth (do they always come in 2's???) and that put him through a lot of pain i think - also buggered up sleep even more.

dp was in charge of getting him to nap on sunday morning, he decided to let him cry, long story short there was a major falling out tho things are better now.

i would love to give you a solution, especially as that would mean my own problems would be sorted, but sadly all i can say is keep on keepin' on, and if you want a sleepless buddy to talk to i'm here!!!

i'm crap at strict routines and like you am too bloody tired to persevere with anything! and i'm totally fed up with hearing other mums talk about how well their lo's sleep, and with people asking 'does he sleep through?' NO HE FUCKING DOESN"T!!!!! (they always look shocked then, wonder why?)

ok that was a mega post, and prob v rambling. i am exhausted.

have a big virtual hug (tho i may fall asleep on your shoulder and dribble all over your sleeve..)

xxxxxxx

[Maenad]

Don't be sorry for questions - I really hope I can help. Not that I think I'm a particularly shining example.... our progress was very slow and not everybody would have been happy to live with it for so long!

I think she must have been younger than your DS when I started doing this, but I presume the approach would be the same. I just put her back on the breast as soon as she got upset, and tried again (being sure to pop her off the breast before she fell asleep). I would just repeat and repeat and repeat until eventually she would give in. Sometimes I would spend 2 hours doing this. But since she would get so frantic about it (I never once heard a 'tired cry' from her) I couldn't see an alternative that I was happy with. I didn't want to sit next to a hysterical baby for hours on end. And I knew that at that point I was only fighting the battle to put her down for the first sleep of the night, and for the time being not worrying about feeding back to sleep for the rest of the night wakings. I'm afraid I can't remember how long it took for her to learn not to fall asleep at the breast but lying in her cot, but she did eventually crack it.

I only felt able to face her being really upset about the subsequent wakings by the time she was 8 months old, by which time I had decided that she really had to get to sleep another way when she woke in the night. I knew by then that she was able to get to sleep without feeding to sleep, and that she definitely didn't need the milk, so I didn't feel so bad about it. I actually expected to knock out the night feeds gradually, and was amazed when after one night of hellish screaming she was suddenly able to go all night with no feeds at all. But she was older and I was very sure she didn't need the feeds.

I think in your position I would focus on teaching him not to feed to sleep at bedtime. It is really hard work but to me it makes sense to crack that one first before trying to deal with the night wakings. Also it's less exhausting for you to deal with one problem at a time.

I really hope this is of some help. It is so hard, and especially when you're that tired.

[MamaChris]

I've read the book over and over, but not managed to achieve much... one thing is that I'm so tired I find it hard to stick to things, which I know is totally counter productive - how will ds learn to sleep without bf if I always end up bf-ing him? Yes, I bf him to sleep. I have tried really hard to help him sleep without it, but although he starts happily lying in his cot, he gets increasingly upset, till I let him bf and then he can be off in just 2 minutes.

Did your dd get upset whilst you were sitting with her when she first went to sleep? Did you sing or pat or just sit quietly? Sorry for so many questions - just hoping I can follow your path to happier nights!

[Maenad]

As far as I remember she had already reduced the number of night feeds by herself by the time she was 8 months. Her night wakings did go through some particularly bad patches before that, and I never really was sure why. I put a lot of it down to teething but might have been completely wrong as all the books say it can't be teething if it's more than a couple of nights at a time.... Calpol did seem to help though. And BTW after I stopped the night feeds at 8 months she didn't actually go straight to sleeping through.... she would wake up and want a cuddle before she would go back to sleep. But somehow I didn't mind that so much. It was quite sweet, and she was still in the sidecar cot so all very easy and cosy.

I see exactly what you mean about your gaps between feeds and length of time screaming. It doesn't sound like a great solution really.

One thing we did really focus on before cutting out the night feeds was avoiding feeding to sleep at the beginning of the night. I read the No-Cry Sleep Solution and did eventually manage to get her to feed and be put down sleepy but not asleep, and then sat with her till she went to sleep. It was quite a tough battle but at least I felt it was a stage on the way to helping her settle herself when she woke in the night. I don't know how your DS goes to sleep at the beginning of the night, but the theory is that if they can get themselves to sleep without sucking at that point, they are much more likely to manage it during the night when they wake up. If you haven't read the book, I recommend it - it helped me feel that there was a path forwards, even though it was a slower one than controlled crying or whatever.

[MamaChris]

thanks for your long messages and the example routine. Much appreciated

I think ds is definitely not hungry every time he wakes, but don't think he's yet able to go through the night without a feed. He still bf every 2-3 hours through the day and isn't yet swallowing much solid food.

DP has managed to comfort him back to sleep without feeding once last night and the night before, but he woke up as soon as he was put back in his cot. Although at least that's a start

Maenad - did you literally go from frequent bf one night to none at all the next? Or did you stage it? We're thinking maybe to try not bf (but try every other kind of comfort) unless it's been 2 hours since the last feed, then increasing the gap gradually. But not sure how this would work in practice. If he wakes 1 hour after a feed, then screams for an hour (god- just writing that sounds awful, not sure we'll manage it, but just suppose), it would then be two hours. If I fed him then it would teach him that he has to scream for a really long time to get fed, which seems more horrible than not feeding at all, in some ways. How can he understand that his wanting bf is reasonable sometimes but other times only after a long wait? Or am I just confusing myself now?

Am really hoping ds will improve as he eats a bit more solid food and it won't come to another screaming night.

[lilyloo]

mamachris i know where your coming from.
dd2 6.5 mths and only this last week has her sleep improved from 2 hourly wakings.
She is still bf and was i felt comfort feeding not hunger feeding.
I have found getting her in a good routine in the day helps her evening sleep also she has always been a snacky bf baby so i am trying little snacks of food through the day.
As for other dc's and dp take heart my first ds was a nightmare and didn't sleep through until 3 but dd2 was a dream bf baby and slept through from 6 weeks.
I honestly believe some babys like sleep and some don't.
Even now ds 6 is an early waker and doesn't like sleeping but dd 3 loves her sleep and will often do 13 hours.
My routine with dd2 goes something like
6-7 up and bf
8 - breakfast porridge and toast
9.30 nap 45 mins
11 bf/snack
12.30 - lunch pasta / fruit
1 nap 1/2 hrs
3 bf/snack
someitmes she may have another quick 20 min nap before tea
5.30 - tea whatever we having
6.30 bath and bed
From this she now goes until 10/11 until bf then has another about 2 and 5 !
Good luck it is soooo hard!